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Old 26.05.2009, 02:18
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Another sad separation & divorce thread

Hi Everyone,

As the title says, it's all on the edge of getting blown away with my wife after nearly 4 years.

I got the news like a bomb on my head last week & i'm totally in a shock, my wife suggested separation till i get my life sorted out alone.

The problem is our child, she's 3 y (4 end of this year), she was born here & have her Swiss nationality.

As i'm a non EU citizen, i would like to continue living here beside my daughter, my permit is B valid till 09/2010, so now my questions:

- Will i be able to stay here to be beside my daughter?
- Will my permit get cancelled if we separate (currently i'm not working but not receiving unemployment too)?
- What are my rights after separation regarding living, working, permits, etc?

I've tried to search for similar situation on the board but couldn't find one.

Any advice would be so much appreciated.

Mo
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Old 26.05.2009, 08:49
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

Hi Mo,

sorry, I can't offer any advice, only sympathy and good wishes.

I moved here to be with my other half and one of my main concerns was always what would happen if we had kids and then split up.

I hope you can find advice and some good news somewhere.

All the best
Jimmy
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Old 26.05.2009, 08:57
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

My sympathies as well... and I'm sorry I don't have any answers. But your concerns are an indictment of Switzerland.

Is there any other country where someone who has to go through the horrors of a separation from their child also has to be afraid of a consequential deportation ?

Even if you are 'allowed' to stay, the fact that you can't easily discover your position is awful.

My advice, based on experience, is to go see a lawyer as soon as possible.
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Old 26.05.2009, 09:09
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

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... my wife suggested separation till i get my life sorted out alone.
Is your staying here dependent the wife? If so, try to negotiate with her at least staying together till your permit is renewed and as suggested see a lawyer.

Also, do what she what she would like you to do, she has told you what she wants; you just might have a chance of working it out.

Good-luck.
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Old 26.05.2009, 10:13
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

Since you've been married over three years and have a child you should be okay.The following link is very helpful in understanding the consequences of separation and divorce:
http://www.binational.ch/en/fragen/trennung.html

I think it would be a good idea to talk to your gemeinde/commune to put your mind at rest. As well answering any questions you have on your rights, they will probably be able to suggest somewhere you can get some free or cheap legal counselling. Very sorry to hear of this turn of events. Good luck.
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Old 26.05.2009, 14:17
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

Thanks alot for everyone who shared their thoughts with me, i think i should seek advice with the commune about that, i would really leave the country without any thoughts of return, but my child is the only reason i'm sort of tied to stay here, just to be able to be around her all time.

As i were checking also another post about facilitated naturalization, am i still entitled for that if we separate now as for the ties of my child?, baring in mind we've been married for nearly 4 years & been living here since.
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Old 26.05.2009, 14:19
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

Is there a chance that you can address the problem that needs "sorting out"?
Is there a way to work through this?

Best of luck either way.
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Old 26.05.2009, 14:23
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

Recently, the Swiss supreme court issued a landmark judgment. The court opined that the welfare of a Swiss child would be best served when the non-citizen parent is allowed to stay.

OP should engage a competent attorney.
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Old 26.05.2009, 14:44
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

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Since you've been married over three years and have a child you should be okay.The following link is very helpful in understanding the consequences of separation and divorce:
http://www.binational.ch/en/fragen/trennung.html

I think it would be a good idea to talk to your gemeinde/commune to put your mind at rest. As well answering any questions you have on your rights, they will probably be able to suggest somewhere you can get some free or cheap legal counselling. Very sorry to hear of this turn of events. Good luck.
I agree with Nev. Start off with your commune, put your cards on the table, and listen to what they have to say. I have always found the staff of communes to be very much aware of how the law stands in any given situation. Good luck!
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Old 26.05.2009, 15:26
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

I am going through a similarly tough time at the moment, but I am lucky enough to be a Swiss citizen now and my child is older.
But it doesn't make it any less traumatic, so all my sympathies to you, Mowvich.

I feel pretty much alone here, with not much help, and of course, all my family are in the UK. It is very hard.
So you are not alone and I find some (sad) comfort in the fact that it's not just happening to me (I don't mean this to sound selfish)
I'm pretty much at the beginning of this experience so can't offer much advice yet, but whatever I learn, Mowvich, I will happily pass on to you.

Please feel free to PM me if you feel down :0(

All the best.
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Old 26.05.2009, 15:35
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

Hi Mo - just wanted to let you know that you're not alone bud. I'm going through the same crap as well at the moment. The only advice I can give you is to be honest to yourself and don't kid yourself that you can make it right for everyone - it's a vicious circle. Like the others have said, speak to your local Gemeinde about what has happened, even if one event overtakes the next. These things are never as clear cut as they could/should be. I don't think that separation is grounds to leave the country, even though it is an accepted legal status here in Switzerland.

Time is the only healer. I'm sure that one day we will all look back at these days and think "hell, if that hadn't of happened, I wouldn't have met, or been able to ....."
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Old 26.05.2009, 19:06
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

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Thanks alot for everyone who shared their thoughts with me, i think i should seek advice with the commune about that, i would really leave the country without any thoughts of return, but my child is the only reason i'm sort of tied to stay here, just to be able to be around her all time.

As i were checking also another post about facilitated naturalization, am i still entitled for that if we separate now as for the ties of my child?, baring in mind we've been married for nearly 4 years & been living here since.
Unfortunately, you'd not be eligible for facilitated naturalization as you and your wife have separated
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Old 26.05.2009, 19:19
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

OP i am really sorry for your situation, it cannot be very nice for you especially since you never saw it coming, it is good that you want to stay here to be near your child, i admire you for that
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I am going through a similarly tough time at the moment, but I am lucky enough to be a Swiss citizen now and my child is older.
But it doesn't make it any less traumatic, so all my sympathies to you, Mowvich.

I feel pretty much alone here, with not much help, and of course, all my family are in the UK. It is very hard.
So you are not alone and I find some (sad) comfort in the fact that it's not just happening to me (I don't mean this to sound selfish)
I'm pretty much at the beginning of this experience so can't offer much advice yet, but whatever I learn, Mowvich, I will happily pass on to you.

Please feel free to PM me if you feel down :0(

All the best.
Sweetie i am also sorry for your situation pm me anytime, or ring me anytime you want to talk
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Old 26.05.2009, 21:12
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

Hi Mo,

So sorry to read your thread. I, like you have been through the same painful situation which is very tough to say the least!!! Far worse for you as you have a child.

My advice to you is take your time, don't rush anything. Go and see your local Gemeinde and a solicitor if possible (I can recommend an English speaking one if you're stuck) Is there any chance you can seek marriage guidance or has that door well and truely closed?

Good luck and pm me if you need any advice
Cat : )
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Old 26.05.2009, 21:21
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

Again thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts & being so helpful.

I'm seriously feeling worst everyday & i feel i'm totally destroyed as it all came as a strike all of a sudden without any introductions.

Not the best thing to happen at all to anyone & never thought it could be that bad.
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Old 26.05.2009, 21:35
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

Sorry I don't know you but you said it yourself. Your wife would like you to sort yourself out before getting back together. Obviously there are things that are not right. Maybe you cannot see them.
I have to say that from my exprience sometimes you wait and you wait for people to change and they don't and one day you wake up and your life has passed you by.
Maybe try and understand what it is about you that she doesn't like. That she finds irritating that.. It must be something serious otherwise she wouldn't take such a drastic decision. No woman will be so irrational specially with a kid.
Also your comment about you would leave if it was't for the child. That means you are not really happy here. My suggestion would be as well as speaking a lawyer would be to seek therapy. I am talking from my own experience. The things I've learnt about myself. Through our lives we gather so many patterns and some become so part of us yet they are destructive and cause us and our loved ones a lot of grief. See if you can find a Cognetive Analythical Therapist (CAT).
Also maybe go on a short holiday and have some space. Go home and speak to your family. I would suggest also these books for reading
Stephen Covey's The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People and
Oliver James They F*** you up (how to survive family life)

Also if you and your wife are from different cultures it makes it difficult so somewhere there is the middle ground...

Well I do wish you sort out the situation for your sake and your child and family sake. Love, Life... it's like a Kubric Cube. If we are not carefule and we move the cubes too much, it becomes harder to get them back to the original state however everyone knows that there are always ways of reversing things. It really is all just maths including thought process, behavioural patterns.... Action ---> Reaction.
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Old 30.05.2009, 16:05
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

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Sorry I don't know you but you said it yourself. Your wife would like you to sort yourself out before getting back together. Obviously there are things that are not right. Maybe you cannot see them.
I have to say that from my exprience sometimes you wait and you wait for people to change and they don't and one day you wake up and your life has passed you by.
Maybe try and understand what it is about you that she doesn't like. That she finds irritating that.. It must be something serious otherwise she wouldn't take such a drastic decision. No woman will be so irrational specially with a kid.
Also your comment about you would leave if it was't for the child. That means you are not really happy here. My suggestion would be as well as speaking a lawyer would be to seek therapy. I am talking from my own experience. The things I've learnt about myself. Through our lives we gather so many patterns and some become so part of us yet they are destructive and cause us and our loved ones a lot of grief. See if you can find a Cognetive Analythical Therapist (CAT).
Also maybe go on a short holiday and have some space. Go home and speak to your family. I would suggest also these books for reading
Stephen Covey's The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People and
Oliver James They F*** you up (how to survive family life)

Also if you and your wife are from different cultures it makes it difficult so somewhere there is the middle ground...

Well I do wish you sort out the situation for your sake and your child and family sake. Love, Life... it's like a Kubric Cube. If we are not carefule and we move the cubes too much, it becomes harder to get them back to the original state however everyone knows that there are always ways of reversing things. It really is all just maths including thought process, behavioural patterns.... Action ---> Reaction.
Thanks alot for such advice & read, i really wish i could have read this 4 years ago, i wouldn't be at this situation by now.

As per your advice, I have read "Stephen Covey's The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People", i really realized how many mistakes have i done that now i can see clearly where it all went wrong, still have to read the other book you adviced.

Also some members (THANKS TO THEM), suggested i have a read on marriagebuilders.com, wish is really everything i didn't know before.

I appreciate all of your advices & really wish i would have had got all this earlier so i can face my real problems instead of getting around in circles for 4 years not knowing what's going wrong.
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Old 30.05.2009, 16:11
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

This is sort of confession, apology & advice that i wrote in a note on my facebook, feel free to read it, i think it could help some marriage or person in trouble with partner in the future:

"I never spoke my heart out when i should've done so, therefore i'm admitting my mistakes on my own free will.

I'm writing this as i just realized that i've failed to get along with life for such a long time now, i've never managed to share, discuss or speak my heart out & the result was so hurting at the end.....

Whom ever reads this should take it as a confession of a sinner, an apology from a mistaken, an advice from experienced or just a hopeless attempt to get a life back !!.

What's this all about?

We don't ever realize how wrong we are till the moment we lose everything, to get this very brutal slap in the face, hearing our order of execution from people we always loved & cared for.

When we decide to start a life with a person we love, we always have this sweet beautiful introduction to the relation that lasts for as much as it gets before we start to get into the first turn which is getting ready for commitment & sharing a life, where we experiment each other, get along together, understand how life will be, discover compatibility & get over incompatibility, start to share, set forces to build, enjoy giving & setting plans for life.

These are simple rules that we mostly forget about sometimes, that we get driven by superficial things in life, forget what it is really all about & we do hurt the most close people to us without even knowing that we're doing it.

When it gets all wrong?

We're humans, we do make mistakes, we do fix our mistakes, but sometime we really get beyond the line, where there's no way back & this is what it's all about.....

Do we deserve the consequences?, should it be that hard?, should we ask for forgiveness?.... these are question we're not entitled anymore to ask !!

How it did get all wrong with me?

Been living in my imaginary world, totally isolated & alone, trying to do things that i thought were right on my own, while i were obliged to share everything at the moment, i've been assuming to have everything under control while i were totally messed out & i never got it till it was so late.

From the very first beginning where the first turn of relation was due, I suffered fear of the future, lake of self confidence, fear of cultural changes, disability to communicate & further more complications that i assume have lead to unbalanced living pattern, loss of the ability to process the right decisions & generate the proper results......

At this stage, I didn't even think to share this with my beloved one, while i should have done that to clear things up & integrate a proper relation, but guess the human egoism + testosterone took over my brain to admit I'm all totally wrong, need help & advice.

Here's what i wish i have done, but unfortunately i didn't :

- Express my fears.
- Seek advice when i needed it.
- Share my emotions & feelings no matter how hard it could've been.
- Speak my heart out loudly.
- Give answers to questions.
- Listen & understand what's being said.
- Face problems & seek solutions.
- Stand for what i believe in & live for.
- Never hide my true feelings.
- Be responsible of my life & my beloved once.
- Make decisions when i had to.
- Be proactive about my surroundings.
- Care, Care, Care & more Care.

The conclusion?

I failed to keep what i were living for (even though i didn't show it !!), i failed to compromise reality... I basically lost it all, i really regret it & i would say it out loud in front of the whole world "I'M WRONG, I'M GUILTY & I DESERVE WHAT HAPPENED TO ME"

One last advice:

Don't get driven by superficial temptations in life, there's much more true things within our hearts........Share, listen, love, stand for what you believe in & enjoy every moment you're living with the ones you love......what you have today, you might lose tomorrow if you go wrong & believe me it so DAMN HURTS."
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Old 31.05.2009, 20:47
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

Hey.......life and relationships...so complicated and painful eh?

Look guys, if you need to chat and work it through then I am based as an English therapist and cover all of Switzerland, face or phone.

I am very experienced in family and relationships , fully qualified of course but also genuine caring and understanding the complexitities of real life !!

Kindest wishes


Caroline

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Old 02.12.2009, 03:23
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Re: Another sad separation & divorce thread

hi i guess we have desame problem.. dont worry they will not sent you home.. i promise everything will be fine.. take it easy and dont waste money for a craft... you dont need a lawyer the outhority will do the rest for you...you have the right for your child and thats the advantage..
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