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Old 16.06.2009, 21:50
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Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

Dear all,

Could anyone in this forum help me to understand if One has to leave country because of permit expiry, what are our legal obligations do we have to pay all the contracts notice period ?

I read somewhere in this forum long back that if one has to leave country due to visa issues then legally person is not obliged to any contract and this can then be negotiated.

I have been searching this forum but could not find that thread, could anyone here point me to the thread of legal documentation web sites where I can find these details

Thanks in Advance

IG
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Old 16.06.2009, 22:13
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Re: Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

Did you not know that your permit was terminating? If you knew, you should have given notice to your contractual counterparts.
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Old 16.06.2009, 22:30
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Re: Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

Unfortunately I was told by my employer that it will be renew but it seems that it will notbe renewed.

So I was searching for that thread.
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Old 16.06.2009, 22:38
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Re: Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

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Unfortunately I was told by my employer that it will be renew but it seems that it will notbe renewed.

So I was searching for that thread.
Many counterparts will be conciliatory and release you pragmatically from contractual obligations when you are forced to depart.
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Old 17.06.2009, 06:46
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Re: Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

Our employer was able to check our visa status and even though we have no paperwork yet they were told that our L was pre-approved for two years and renewal will be no problem...it's 'on the system'....

Your employer should know, since the work permit is their problem, not yours...how could they possible pursue you if they are the ones who have failed in some way to convince the authorities that you are the *only* person for the job...

As for other contracts - lease etc should be fairly easy to wrap up - there are plenty of expats coming in over the summer...other contracts you really should contact each supplier and ask them what their policy is and how to finalise your account...
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Old 17.06.2009, 12:50
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Re: Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

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Dear all,

Could anyone in this forum help me to understand if One has to leave country because of permit expiry, what are our legal obligations do we have to pay all the contracts notice period ?

I read somewhere in this forum long back that if one has to leave country due to visa issues then legally person is not obliged to any contract and this can then be negotiated.

I have been searching this forum but could not find that thread, could anyone here point me to the thread of legal documentation web sites where I can find these details

Thanks in Advance

IG
Often contracts have some sort of "Force majeure" (spelling?) clause that allows you escape from the contract conditions if something happens that you have no personal control over (like your employer failing to renew your work permit).
You need to read the contract to see if that clause exists.

Otherwise it is a negotiation between you and the other party to the contract.

Marton
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Old 18.06.2009, 21:59
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Re: Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

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Unfortunately I was told by my employer that it will be renew but it seems that it will notbe renewed.

So I was searching for that thread.
My sympathies are with you, but from the legal standpoint I doubt if your case will hold up. The reason is, when you enter a contract based on facts which are "true to the best of your knowledge", when a dispute arises later, the judge will ask what a "reasonable man" would have done in identical conditions.

Now your employer may have "told" you that your work permit will be renewed. But a reasonable person in Switzerland would realize that the employer is not competent to make such promises, it is at best a wish; it is the Swiss authorities that make decisions on work permits. It is common knowledge that work permits are not automatically renewed. Therefore it was not reasonable to make that assumption about your stay duration, and therefore I think you would be on the wrong side of law if you break the contract.

I hope you'll get more accurate advice from professionals.

On the practical side, I think if you have the time you should find people to take over your contracts, and EF is a good place to start. All the best!

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Often contracts have some sort of "Force majeure" (spelling?) clause that allows you escape from the contract conditions if something happens that you have no personal control over (like your employer failing to renew your work permit).
You need to read the contract to see if that clause exists.

Otherwise it is a negotiation between you and the other party to the contract.

Marton
Force majuere does not apply here, AFIK.
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Old 18.06.2009, 22:38
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Re: Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

Losing one's job or, I guess, not having a residence permit renewed would make the continuation of a rental agreement "unreasonable" (German word: unzumutbar).

However, it is not just a question of upping sticks, sending the keys in the mail and disappearing, like this person. It really has to be done in the correct manner and may even require approval of a judge. In order to do this I suggest you contact the Mieterverband asap to discuss how to go about it.

Here is a short excerpt of a legal document (in German I am afraid, but with a reference to an article of the law)

"Ausserordentlich schwer wiegende Umstände
Nach Art. 266g Abs. 1 OR können die Parteien das Mietverhältnis aus wichtigen Gründen, welche die Vertragserfüllung für sie unzumutbar machen, mit der gesetzlichen Frist auf einen beliebeigen Zeitpunkt kündigen. Wichtige Gründe im Sinnen dieser Bestimmung stellen nur ausserordentlich schwer wiegende Umstände, die bei Vertragsabschluss weder bekannt noch voraussehbar waren und nicht auf ein Verschulden der kündigenden Partei zurückzuführen sind dar. Diese Umstände müssen derart schwer wiegend sein, dass die Fortsetzung des Mietverhältnisses nur schon bis zum nächsten ordentlichen Kündigungstermin nach objektiven Gesichtspunkten unzumutbar ist; subjektive Unzumutbarkeitsvorstellungen sind unerheblich."

This might not get you off the hook completely from day one, but it does mean that you wouldn't necessarily have to wait until the earliest contractual notice date, if let say you were only 6 months into a 12 month contract.

Good luck!

Last edited by Snoopy; 18.06.2009 at 22:49.
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  #9  
Old 18.06.2009, 22:49
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Re: Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

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Losing one's job or, I guess, not having a residence permit renewed would make the continuation of a rental agreement "unreasonable" (German word: unzumutbar).

However, it is not just a question of upping sticks, sending the keys in the mail and disappearing, like this person. It really has to be done in the correct manner and may even require approval of a judge. In order to do this I suggest you contact the Mieterverband asap to discuss how to go about it.

Good luck!
Losing a job is one thing, not having a residence permit extended is another. A residence permit like L or B is specificaly for a certain duration with not even the remotest hint of a guarantee of extension.

As for this person, he was never in a valid contract to begin with, so the question of breaking a contract does not arise there. But if he left the country without even speaking to the landlord and discussing the situation, I guess that is quite pathetic.
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Old 18.06.2009, 23:07
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Re: Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

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Losing a job is one thing, not having a residence permit extended is another. A residence permit like L or B is specificaly for a certain duration with not even the remotest hint of a guarantee of extension.
Niranjan, I understand what you are saying, and the OP does not really give enough details with which to come to an informed conclusion. Questions whih may need consideration are:
  1. Was the contract that the OP given a fixed term contract with no expectation for renewal or was the OP initially given the impression that his contract and permit might be renewed?
  2. Why wasn't his permit renewed?
  3. Was it through any fault of his own or his employer?
The passage quoted above does not apply exclusively to someone losing a job, it could also apply to someone falling extremely ill, etc...It basically applies to those cases where the tenant could not reasonably expect to no longer be in a position to adhere to the terms of the contract. If you say that a 12-month permit is not a reason then this could have disasterous consequences for anyone who is neither Swiss nor an EU citizen nor a C-permit holder.
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Old 18.06.2009, 23:18
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Re: Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

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Niranjan, I understand what you are saying, and the OP does not really give enough details with which to come to an informed conclusion. Questions whih may need consideration are:
  1. Was the contract that the OP given a fixed term contract with no expectation for renewal or was the OP initially given the impression that his contract and permit might be renewed?
  2. Why wasn't his permit renewed?
  3. Was it through any fault of his own or his employer?
The passage quoted above does not apply exclusively to someone losing a job, it could also apply to someone falling extremely ill, etc...It basically applies to those cases where the tenant could not reasonably expect to no longer be in a position to adhere to the terms of the contract. If you say that a 12-month permit is not a reason then this could have disasterous consequences for anyone who is neither Swiss nor an EU citizen nor a C-permit holder.
Sure, we don't know much details, but for the sake of knowledge let us continue this discussion.

Let us assume he is an Indian, who came here on a 6 month L permit, with the promise by his employer that it would later be extended by an additional 12 months. Based on this, the employee enters an 18 month home contract, and then wants to break it at the 6th month because the extension did not come. The reason could be anything, let us say because the job marlet situation had changed and his was no longer specialist skill not available in the local market, according to the Swiss authorities.... Now in this case what would be the legal position?
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Old 19.06.2009, 00:31
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Re: Contract obligations if had to leave country due to visa expiry

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My sympathies are with you, but from the legal standpoint I doubt if your case will hold up. The reason is, when you enter a contract based on facts which are "true to the best of your knowledge", when a dispute arises later, the judge will ask what a "reasonable man" would have done in identical conditions.

Now your employer may have "told" you that your work permit will be renewed. But a reasonable person in Switzerland would realize that the employer is not competent to make such promises, it is at best a wish; it is the Swiss authorities that make decisions on work permits. It is common knowledge that work permits are not automatically renewed. Therefore it was not reasonable to make that assumption about your stay duration, and therefore I think you would be on the wrong side of law if you break the contract. .
If every foreigner in Switzerland only entered contracts that ran until the date their work permit expires then the systen would not work i.e. flat rentals, car leasing, etc.
If you could renew your work permit 3 or 6 months before it expires then it would be a different situation.
I am sure a judge/court would take this into account.

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a reasonable person in Switzerland would realize that the employer is not competent to make such promises.
I do not believe it is reasonable to assume your employer is a liar, how can you agree any arrangements on this basis?

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Force majuere does not apply here, AFIK.
If you read all my post you would see that I wrote one should check to see if one's contract had a force majeure clause, not that it is automatically applied.

Marton
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