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  #41  
Old 30.03.2012, 20:46
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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We are trying to tell you but you are not paying attention.
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You are not Federal Law, are you?


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Switzerland would consider them the same as Greece consider them: Albanian citizens with Greek residency; and how Albania considers them Albanian Citizens, IE, They are Albanian citizens with Greek resident rights.
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Says who? A consul in NY in 2000 who is talking about Greece, not about CH?

If I were in the opening poster's situation, I would ask a specialist in this matter.
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  #42  
Old 30.03.2012, 20:50
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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You are not Federal Law, are you?




Says who? A consul in NY in 2000 who is talking about Greece, not about CH?

If I were in the opening poster's situation, I would ask a specialist in this matter.

If that's the case why are you giving your 2 cents then?
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  #43  
Old 30.03.2012, 20:53
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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You are not Federal Law, are you?




Says who? A consul in NY in 2000 who is talking about Greece, not about CH?

If I were in the opening poster's situation, I would ask a specialist in this matter.
It's not about CH or Greece, it's about where the person's passport is, which looks like Albanian. They are not from the 17 or the EU, yet. They have just as much chance as some getting in here from some where like Argentina, Somalia, or the USA for that matter.
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  #44  
Old 30.03.2012, 20:58
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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You are not Federal Law, are you?

Says who? A consul in NY in 2000 who is talking about Greece, not about CH?

If I were in the opening poster's situation, I would ask a specialist in this matter.
Ok, Have you lost your mind? I know it's Friday but have we started drinking early.

Let's forget about the whole "Greek ID card" for a moment as it seems to be confusing you.

What passport do they hold? Let me give you a hint: Albanian
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  #45  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:19
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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Ok, Have you lost your mind?
...
Not yet; but I admit I do "like" the argument (what is maybe not fair as for someone the question could be crucial -> that's why I say: go ask a lawyer).


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Let's forget about the whole "Greek ID card" for a moment as it seems to be confusing you.
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Not at all.


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What passport do they hold? Let me give you a hint: Albanian
Now you mistake the passport for nationality.

Let's assume a person from Southern Albania lost his Albanian nationality or that local authorities for one odd reason (e.g. ethnical) refuse to renew his Albanian documents.

The person however is holder of our beloved Greek ID which - you don't agree on that but read page 1 - states his "Greek nationality".


What would he be considered from a Swiss point of view?

I don't find the answer that simple as you suggest.
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  #46  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:27
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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Not yet; but I admit I do "like" the argument (what is maybe not fair as for someone the question could be crucial -> that's why I say: go ask a lawyer).




Not at all.




Now you mistake the passport for nationality.

Let's assume a person from Southern Albania lost his Albanian nationality or that local authorities for one odd reason (e.g. ethnical) refuse to renew his Albanian documents.

The person however is holder of our beloved Greek ID which - you don't agree on that but read page 1 - states his "Greek nationality".


What would he be considered from a Swiss point of view?

I don't find the answer that simple as you suggest.
Damn! If he is an Albanian passport holder he is an Albanian passport holder, how is that something to question?

My family is of German origin, but my passport says American. I can't vote in a German election, I don't pay German taxes, and low and be hold I can't speak German; well for now. It doesn't matter where your origin is, it's where your passport states...but you want to argue. So it's understandable that won't understand this.
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  #47  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:37
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

Well,

according
http://www.eastbordnet.org/events/20...2009/index.htm

"In the past few years the discourses of ‘Europe’ and the European Union began to be shaped in the media and among general public life in postcommunist Albania. These discourses are also present among the inhabitants of Himara in southern Albania, who are according to the legal policies in Greece considered to be part of Greek ‘co-ethnicity’ while they are defined as Albanian citizens according to the legal policies in Albania. The status of Greek co-ethnicity allows them to apply for the
Special Identity Cards which allow them a social and health security besides ‘free’ crossing of the Albanian-Greek and other EU borders (inside Schengen regime), which are hardly passable for majority of Albanian citizens."

So if this article info is correct EU considers them to be Greek.

If one is still in doubt contact the address in the link.
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  #48  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:39
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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Now you mistake the passport for nationality.
No. I know what you are saying. But the Swiss (and just about any other country you want to immigrate/travel to) only care about citizenship. We are using a lot of these two words completely interchangeably when they are not exactly that same.

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Let's assume a person from Southern Albania lost his Albanian nationality +++ HERE you mean citizenship +++ or that local authorities for one odd reason (e.g. ethnical) refuse to renew his Albanian documents.

The person however is holder of our beloved Greek ID which - you don't agree on that but read page 1 - states his "Greek nationality". +++ NOT citizenship +++

What would he be considered from a Swiss point of view?

I don't find the answer that simple as you suggest.
The Swiss wouldn't care (administratively speaking). They just wouldn't let him in. Did you see that move with Tom Hanks when he is stuck in the airport? No valid internationally recognized travel documents, no entry, or exit.

The Albanian would be stuck where ever he was. He would have to give a call to the UN organization that deals with. (I'm guessing it's the High Commission for Refugees one)

* "Greek nationality" does not equal "Greek Citizenship" that is why they are no being issued passports.
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  #49  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:40
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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My family is of German origin, but my passport says American. I can't vote in a German election, I don't pay German taxes, and low and be hold I can't speak German; well for now.
...
Until a couple of years ago (I think now you would have to pass a language test) you might could have got "back" your German passport.

An Italian could until now regain Italian citizenship, if I am well informed. Many Argentinians during the crisis 2000 did.
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  #50  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:45
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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Until a couple of years ago (I think now you would have to pass a language test) you might could have got "back" your German passport.

An Italian could until now regain Italian citizenship, if I am well informed. Many Argentinians during the crisis 2000 did.
Dude, some one from Albania with whatever origins wants to come to CH, they are going to look at his Albanian passport; final.
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  #51  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:47
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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* "Greek nationality" does not equal "Greek Citizenship" that is why they are no being issued passports.
That was my point. Neither did I confuse the 2 things.
The question is how CH handles this.

A person can have several nationalities, and for Albania the northern Epiros inhabitants have Albanian, not Greek, nationality. I don't know however if a Greek descendent of that region can resign from his Albanian citizenship or if local authorities do somehow discriminate local Greek descendents.
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  #52  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:49
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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That was my point. Neither did I confuse the 2 things.
The question is how CH handles this.

A person can have several nationalities, and for Albania the northern Epiros inhabitants have Albanian, not Greek, nationality. I don't know however if a Greek descendent of that region can resign from his Albanian citizenship or if local authorities do somehow discriminate local Greek descendents.
No, they cannot. You can say you have a few, but you have to choose, on paper. Guess which paper I am referring to?
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  #53  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:51
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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Well,

according
http://www.eastbordnet.org/events/20...2009/index.htm

"In the past few years the discourses of ‘Europe’ and the European Union began to be shaped in the media and among general public life in postcommunist Albania. These discourses are also present among the inhabitants of Himara in southern Albania, who are according to the legal policies in Greece considered to be part of Greek ‘co-ethnicity’ while they are defined as Albanian citizens according to the legal policies in Albania. The status of Greek co-ethnicity allows them to apply for the
Special Identity Cards which allow them a social and health security besides ‘free’ crossing of the Albanian-Greek and other EU borders (inside Schengen regime), which are hardly passable for majority of Albanian citizens."

So if this article info is correct EU considers them to be Greek.

If one is still in doubt contact the address in the link.
No it doesn't! It considers them to be Albanians with residency rights in Greece.

And please note that here they do not use the word "nationality" but "ethnicity" so as to avoid the whole confusion that happens in English with the words "nationality" and "citizenship".
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  #54  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:54
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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That was my point. Neither did I confuse the 2 things.
The question is how CH handles this.

A person can have several nationalities, and for Albania the northern Epiros inhabitants have Albanian, not Greek, nationality. I don't know however if a Greek descendent of that region can resign from his Albanian citizenship or if local authorities do somehow discriminate local Greek descendents.
Some Georgians have Russian passports, that doesn't mean they can also have Georgian rights under passport protection as well.
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  #55  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:54
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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No it doesn't! It considers them to be Albanians with residency rights in Greece.
Possible.

Possible also the contrary.
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  #56  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:57
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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Possible.

Possible also the contrary.
Trust me, nothing is possible in CH, only fact. Plus this isn't a lawyering situation. You can't argue on the possibility of what is or what might be, as this is not a trial. The OP asked for what is possible with their details to help them determine what to do. Telling them there are all sorts of maybe's doesn't help them at all. What facts can you offer?
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  #57  
Old 30.03.2012, 21:57
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

According to this government link, a Greek ID card holder does not need a visa for a stay in Switzerland over 90 days.

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/...rigkeit/g.html

The simplest solution is to get the prospective employer to contact the immigration authorities and ask - it's not hard to check the procedural stuff.

As for everyone bickering over 'ID' and 'Passport' and 'Citizenship'...remember that what works in one country, how they view 'citizenship' and 'immigrants' and 'foreigners' and 'rights' is very very different in many places in the world...
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  #58  
Old 30.03.2012, 22:03
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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Trust me, nothing is possible in CH, only fact.
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What facts can you offer?
That they have a kind of Greek ID where it seems to be stated "Greek Nationality", which is the reason why they have all residency rights in Greece and free Schengen, non-hellenic Albanians don't.

So if - if - it is like this, they are Greek Nationality holders and for a normal person with common sense Greek citizens.
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  #59  
Old 30.03.2012, 22:11
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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Dude, some one from Albania with whatever origins wants to come to CH, they are going to look at his Albanian passport; final.
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According to this government link, a Greek ID card holder does not need a visa for a stay in Switzerland over 90 days.

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/...rigkeit/g.html

The simplest solution is to get the prospective employer to contact the immigration authorities and ask - it's not hard to check the procedural stuff.

As for everyone bickering over 'ID' and 'Passport' and 'Citizenship'...remember that what works in one country, how they view 'citizenship' and 'immigrants' and 'foreigners' and 'rights' is very very different in many places in the world...
Is the OP, who has gone away long ago, talking about visiting visa or working visa?

Greek resident rights gives visa free visitor rights for those residents.

For a work visa, I'm guessing that's a whole different ball game.

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So if - if - it is like this, they are Greek Nationality holders and for a normal person with common sense Greek citizens.
Ok. But they are not. Are we done now?


And PS, I've been going back to re-read and I can't find anywhere where it says they are "Greek Nationals". It says "Hellenic/Greek descent" or "Hellenic/Greek ethnicity/co-ethnicity"
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  #60  
Old 31.03.2012, 00:54
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Re: Greek ID card / Albanian passport, what counts?

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And PS, I've been going back to re-read and I can't find anywhere where it says they are "Greek Nationals". It says "Hellenic/Greek descent" or "Hellenic/Greek ethnicity/co-ethnicity"
Integer said that, as I re-posted before.

And both, ethnicity (yes, a greek word) and nationality in Greek is εθνικότητα, if I got that right,

citizenship υπηκοότητα.

"Co-ethnity", the concept mentioned in both above links, no clue.
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