Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #641  
Old 13.10.2016, 15:42
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 18,489
Groaned at 307 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 13,549 Times in 7,784 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

"1) Can an employer(a Swiss company) apply and get the restricted Non EU B permit of its employee converted to an open B permit? ( As the authorities extended and issued a restricted B permit even though the employer had applied for an open permit during the extension request).
[Let us assume that the employer will agree to do so]

I remember having read a post giving even the details of the form and fees for such an application but I am not able to find that anywhere."

Only when the time for the next renewal comes up I think. Can't be converted during the current permit as far as I know.

"2) Within the non EU B permit quota, are there any specific number of open and restricted B permits ?"

Not that I've heard because I'm not sure an open B would come under the quota.

"3) If one gets an open non EU B permit , then are there any further approvals required whenever one changes jobs ?"

No.

"4) Are any approvals required if a non-EU dependent B permit holder wants to start an AG and work as a director in this company."

Yes. They need to get approval for the business the same as anyone else does. They need to show a good business plan and have sufficient funding to keep the business going while it gets established. And it would face the same non-EU hiring rule that any other Swiss company does. It would have to prove that it can't find a Swiss/EU national who could do the job.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html

Also bear in mind that having your own company here wouldn't necessairly allow you to continue living and working here if the main permit holder loses their permit. The dependent permit is linked to the main permit, if one goes they all go.

From the Foreign Nationals Act:

"The possibility of gainful employment for family members is related, according to art. OASA 26 and 27, to the duration of the authorization of the person granted family reunification. If the residence permit of the spouse is not renewed, the members of his family cannot claim a right to pursue their gainful employment (art.6, para. 2, OASA)."
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #642  
Old 13.10.2016, 16:33
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
Yoga has no particular reputation at present
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Thanks Medea,

About point 4. I learnt that for hirign a dependent B permit hoder, you do not need to prove that you could not find Swiss/EU national. Pls correct me if this is wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #643  
Old 13.10.2016, 16:43
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 18,489
Groaned at 307 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 13,549 Times in 7,784 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

True, my mistake. Sorry.
Reply With Quote
  #644  
Old 13.10.2016, 17:18
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 7,871
Groaned at 53 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 11,940 Times in 5,620 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Quote:
View Post
Thanks Medea,

About point 4. I learnt that for hirign a dependent B permit hoder, you do not need to prove that you could not find Swiss/EU national. Pls correct me if this is wrong.
Quote:
View Post
True, my mistake. Sorry.
Yoga - I might be misreading your posts so please clarify if I'm wrong. It sounds like the one with a tied B permit would prefer to have an open B and start a business. Then that business would hire the spouse/partner holding a dependent B permit?

If so I don't think there's anything against it in the laws but it could raise some eyebrows in the permit approval process. Something to keep in mind.
Reply With Quote
  #645  
Old 13.10.2016, 19:11
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
Yoga has no particular reputation at present
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Thank you,

Q 1 to 3 are for non EU restricted B permit holder i.e. for me.
Q4 is for my dependent B permit holder wife.

I am looking for freedom to change jobs, she wants to start business, so the 2 queries are not related to each other. I should have stated clearly.
Reply With Quote
  #646  
Old 17.05.2018, 20:04
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 108
Groaned at 49 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

What if the following steps happen:

1. An employer wants to hire a specific and non-EU citizen.

2. The application gets rejected due to "The employer is required to prove :
that it has made every possible effort to find a worker on the Swiss and European local labour market..."

3. The same employee-candidate gets a job in an EU-member country. They get a visa and a work permit from that EU-member country.

4. The employer applies again for the same employee-candidate.

Would the employee-candidate still be considered as a third world member or someone from the EU labor market?
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Amanda Portman for this post:
  #647  
Old 17.05.2018, 20:08
roegner's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6,669
Groaned at 212 Times in 184 Posts
Thanked 7,156 Times in 3,594 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Quote:
View Post
What if the following steps happen:

1. An employer wants to hire a specific and non-EU citizen.

2. The application gets rejected due to "The employer is required to prove :
that it has made every possible effort to find a worker on the Swiss and European local labour market..."

3. The same employee-candidate gets a job in an EU-member country. They get a visa and a work permit from that EU-member country.

4. The employer applies again for the same employee-candidate.

Would the employee-candidate still be considered as a third world member or someone from the EU labor market?


Did you change your nationality in between? If no, still the same rule. Whatever work permit in the EU counts for nothing in Switzerland
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #648  
Old 17.05.2018, 20:18
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 108
Groaned at 49 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Quote:
View Post


Did you change your nationality in between? If no, still the same rule. Whatever work permit in the EU counts for nothing in Switzerland
I’m the employer.

I thought it would matter because the reply says that the employer must try first the Swiss and EU/EFTA job markets.

I would think if a person has a work permit in the EU, they belong to the EU job market.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at Amanda Portman for this post:
  #649  
Old 17.05.2018, 20:22
roegner's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6,669
Groaned at 212 Times in 184 Posts
Thanked 7,156 Times in 3,594 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Quote:
View Post
I’m the employer.

I thought it would matter because the reply says that the employer must try first the Swiss and EU/EFTA job markets.

I would think if a person has a work permit in the EU, they belong to the EU job market.
No, it is linked to nationalities. Free movement is for Europeans, not for non EU living in the EU
Reply With Quote
  #650  
Old 17.05.2018, 20:25
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 18,489
Groaned at 307 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 13,549 Times in 7,784 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Quote:
View Post
I’m the employer.

I thought it would matter because the reply says that the employer must try first the Swiss and EU/EFTA job markets.

I would think if a person has a work permit in the EU, they belong to the EU job market.
No, doesn't work that way. They're still non-EU nationals. Just because they have a permit to live and work in an EU country doesn't change their nationality.

"I am a citizen of a non-EU/EFTA state in possession of an unlimited residence permit valid for an EU/EFTA state. Do I need visa to work in Switzerland?

Whether or not you possess a residence permit valid for an EU/EFTA state does not affect your status in Switzerland. You are subject to the same provisions on entry and work as people who enter Switzerland from a third state. As a rule, you will need to apply for an entry visa, which will be issued by the Swiss diplomatic representation abroad as soon as you have been granted a work permit."

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...rbeit/faq.html
Reply With Quote
  #651  
Old 17.05.2018, 20:32
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 108
Groaned at 49 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Thank you for the fast responses.
Reply With Quote
  #652  
Old 17.05.2018, 20:38
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 23,062
Groaned at 1,219 Times in 956 Posts
Thanked 26,167 Times in 12,537 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Quote:
View Post
I’m the employer.

I thought it would matter because the reply says that the employer must try first the Swiss and EU/EFTA job markets.

I would think if a person has a work permit in the EU, they belong to the EU job market.
Switzerland is not in the EU.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #653  
Old 18.05.2018, 16:27
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 108
Groaned at 49 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

I am trying to employ someone.

The second biggest issue is that I have to advertise the job. Can I simply refuse everyone else? I believe it’s up to me whom I employ.

The biggest issue is the person has to be a specialist with a university degree. The person I want to employ has an "extended" university degree, but not for the job. What can I do?

When I came here, I lived in a hotel apartment. The cleaning ladies were from Brazil. I wonder how they proved they were specialists.
Reply With Quote
  #654  
Old 18.05.2018, 16:37
roegner's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6,669
Groaned at 212 Times in 184 Posts
Thanked 7,156 Times in 3,594 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Sure, you can refuse anyone else. Then they will probably send you someone from RAV and/or will not believe you and still refuse the permit.

Maybe the cleaning ladies were born here? Are married to a Swiss person? Came here with their parents? Have dual passports?
Reply With Quote
  #655  
Old 18.05.2018, 16:41
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 18,489
Groaned at 307 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 13,549 Times in 7,784 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Quote:
View Post
I am trying to employ someone.

The second biggest issue is that I have to advertise the job. Can I simply refuse everyone else? I believe it’s up to me whom I employ.

The biggest issue is the person has to be a specialist with a university degree. The person I want to employ has an "extended" university degree, but not for the job. What can I do?

When I came here, I lived in a hotel apartment. The cleaning ladies were from Brazil. I wonder how they proved they were specialists.
No, you can't. The authorities will want to know why they weren't suitable. Just refusing them doesn't cut it.

"Moreover, the employer must explain to the authorities why the search for a suitable candidate by means of the recruitment channels used in the specific industry, such as specialist journals, employment agencies, online job listings or corporate websites, etc., was not successful. Suitable proof includes job advertisements in newspapers, written confirmation from employment agencies, or other kinds of documentation. Often it is helpful for authorities if the employer submits a brief overview of all candidates with a short explanation of which qualifications for a particular job were lacking. In special cases, the authorities can request an employer to intensify his recruitment efforts."

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html

Answer is you can't do much if the candidate doesn't fit the non-EU hiring criteria whether you believe you can employ who you want or not. Them's the rules and if you don't like them go and live in a country where you can do that.

And those women from Brazil are either married to Swiss/EU nationals so have the right to work here or they're working illegally. Take your pick.
Reply With Quote
  #656  
Old 18.05.2018, 16:54
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 108
Groaned at 49 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Quote:
View Post
No, you can't. The authorities will want to know why they weren't suitable. Just refusing them doesn't cut it.


https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html

Answer is you can't do much if the candidate doesn't fit the non-EU hiring criteria whether you believe you can employ who you want or not. Them's the rules and if you don't like them go and live in a country where you can do that.

And those women from Brazil are either married to Swiss/EU nationals so have the right to work here or they're working illegally. Take your pick.
Thank you.

It’s not about blaming the country or the rules. It’s about succeeding. In the application, I wrote the truth about the job.
Reply With Quote
  #657  
Old 18.05.2018, 16:58
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 18,489
Groaned at 307 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 13,549 Times in 7,784 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

And if the Swiss authorities agree with you, you'll get the permit granted. If they don't, you'll be asked to search more intensively to find someone who does fit. Or I think you can appeal the decision, but that will take time and money.
Reply With Quote
  #658  
Old 18.05.2018, 17:48
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: -
Posts: 51
Groaned at 13 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 24 Times in 16 Posts
mohmal is considered unworthymohmal is considered unworthymohmal is considered unworthy
Re: Non-EU Permits - a few bullet points.

Quote:
View Post
When I came here, I lived in a hotel apartment. The cleaning ladies were from Brazil. I wonder how they proved they were specialists.
Many cleaning companies / airport operators / Burger King at HB and similar supply their demand for labor by hiring from personnel companies that are based outside of CH but within EU/EFTA who then send over employees (often from Kosovo, West African countries, Brazil indeed) for 90 days at a time and then rotate. In such cases no formal work authorization is required, they typically provide simple accommodation and don't need to pay into the first pillar for example, keeping salaries very low.

Believe you me the way things are set up in Switzerland is not out of coincidence.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ausweis, non eu, permit, sticky thread, work




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Permits: What the the advantages of a C permit? Gav Permits/visas/government 80 22.12.2017 13:28
information on Residence Permits. NicM Permits/visas/government 5 12.03.2012 15:48
Different Permits Tiger Permits/visas/government 12 13.03.2010 20:25
Cumulus points for Rolling Stones Oldhand Daily life 18 15.07.2007 15:33


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0