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Old 15.06.2007, 07:28
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Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in Switzerland?

Hello there,

I thought that would toss this into the Forum ring as this is an interesting question I think.... If a spouse of a B-EU holder is not living in CH, but staying in her homeland (in this case Germany), does she not need to be registered for a permit regardless, due to the fact that she is a spouse of a CH permit holder? at the moment it is a distance marriage as both have great jobs and are not willing to change for the moment. They exchange weekend "visiting" rights but she is never here more than a week. She pays her taxes in Germany, and they keep a residence there that they own as well. He rents here. He is registered as a single for the moment as he had friends recommend this for tax reasons, which is how all of this came up over coffee!

Interesting to hear your thoughts on this...

Cheers

Fiona
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Old 15.06.2007, 08:02
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Re: Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in CH?

Fiona,

Surely if you husband registers as being single and in time you come to CH, then you will have all sorts of problems later down the line. The Swiss don't forget and everything is documented, so it will come back and bite you.

Just be truthful in CH about your circumstances. On the issue of tax you will have to get some advice regarding a married couple not living in the same country.

Others in the forum will no doubt add their comments.

Andy
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Old 15.06.2007, 08:39
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Re: Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in CH?

I think this quite a common situation, there should not be any problems if you play your cards well. My question is, why is the half in CH registered as single? I am not sure if it depends on the canton but he should actually pay less taxes if he was registered as married. It should not matter where the other half lives. Anyway, like mentioned before, everyhing is registered and they will propably find out that you were married if you both end up in Switzerland. Not sure if it such a big crime after all, especially if he's paid more taxes than he should.

Any tax specialists out there?
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Old 15.06.2007, 11:00
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Re: Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in CH?

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I think this quite a common situation, there should not be any problems if you play your cards well. My question is, why is the half in CH registered as single? I am not sure if it depends on the canton but he should actually pay less taxes if he was registered as married. It should not matter where the other half lives. Anyway, like mentioned before, everyhing is registered and they will propably find out that you were married if you both end up in Switzerland. Not sure if it such a big crime after all, especially if he's paid more taxes than he should.

Any tax specialists out there?
When you complete the application form for a permit you sign to state that everything you have written is correct and if it is not the Swiss have the right to withdraw your permit with immediate effect. With respect to taxes this is covered in the bilateral tax agreement between Germany and Switzerland. Within this exactly this situation is covered. It is worth noting that both Germany and Switzerland have taxation on global earnings. It is also worth noting that tax payments become time barred after ten years. It is further worth noting that both countries will tax on the full amount retrospectively, and for tax avoidance, which this effectively is, the agreements between the countries do not apply ie you are taxed by both countries fully!

So what is your friend risking? Put simply German Tax will be around 40-45% of combined earnings. Swiss Tax will be around 25% of combined earnings. Total tax burden is then circa 65% of total joint earnings. Which is more or less all of it when you take out social contributions and pensions.

So why not ask him how he will feel if he gets a bill for his total salary for the whole length of time he has been in Switzerland! And then ask him if he wants to correct this oversight.

Upon correction the Swiss and Germans are very lenient ie they will simply recalculate the taxes they would want and check to see if this works out as a plus or a minus. It should not make much difference in reality.
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Old 15.06.2007, 14:03
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Re: Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in Switzerland?

@ Fiona, this situation is very similar to what my husband (a German citizen) and I (non-EU citizen) are going through now.
  • He works and lives in Germany, I in Switzerland (non EU B-permit) so we maintain two separate households.
  • He does not have a residence permit in CH (German citizen can travel freely to CH) and vice versa (I travel with a Schengen visa to visit him on weekends).
  • He reports his marriage status at his city hall and employer, and I do the same here.
  • For him, it is a bit of a tax disadvantage because he is considered married but living separately so he has to pay more tax (Lohnsteuerklasse I?). If I were to be registered at his home address, he would pay less tax (Klasse III).
  • For me in CH, it is a tax advantage because I am regarded as a single-incomed-married person. Since I don't live in Germany, I don't have to pay tax there.
I don't know if your friend (the husband) would also get a tax advantage if he tells his employer he is married but living separated (due to job situations). But it may be worth to ask the HRD where the husband works.

Isn't there a new tax regulation since 2007 where married couples are no longer "punished" to pay higher taxes than an unmarried person in CH?
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Old 15.06.2007, 14:05
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Re: Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in Switzerland?

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Isn't there a new tax regulation since 2007 where married couples are no longer "punished" to pay higher taxes than an unmarried person in CH?
Very unfortunately not yet
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Old 20.08.2007, 10:00
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Re: Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in Switzerland?

Thanks eberyone.... I just saw that there had been more replies to my post... somehow I wasn't getting the subscribed mails I have not got the outcome to the story yet ... so stay tuned!

Cheers
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Old 09.06.2011, 16:12
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Re: Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in Switzerland?

I'd like to reopen this discussion as I can't find an answer to the original question regarding the need for a residence permit for a spouse who is not resident (but visits often).

* My (English) wife has a job and a residence permit in CH.
* I (also English) work for a company in London, but as I work from home a lot, will spend quite a lot of time in CH.

I *could* get a residence permit as her spouse. However, I would then have to get health insurance etc.

As I see it, I will be covered as a visitor under my EHIC / travel insurance. I will be taxed in the UK (although work will be carried out from CH, it will be for a UK company and taxed as such). This should work as long as I don't exceed the Schengen rule of more than 90 days out of any 180 in CH.

Does all of that sound plausible?

Thanks
R
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Old 09.06.2011, 17:56
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Re: Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in Switzerland?

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Does all of that sound plausible?

Thanks
R
Yes. You're welcome!
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  #10  
Old 09.06.2011, 19:01
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Re: Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in Switzerland?

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Very unfortunately not yet
Wow- really? A married couple pay more tax than singles- how come I never knew that- that's ridiculous. It sounds like a disincentive to marry.

Is that just for this specific situation, or does it cover all Swiss couples living in and working in Switzerland?
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  #11  
Old 09.06.2011, 19:29
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Re: Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in Switzerland?

It covers all married couples living together in Switzerland. Many rich couples legally separate for tax reasons. The topic is dicussed endlessly in higher government circles. If one partner stops working there is no disadvantage, so maybe it is a tax on greedy workaholics?
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Old 09.06.2011, 20:03
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Re: Permit needed for EU spouse NOT residing in Switzerland?

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It covers all married couples living together in Switzerland. Many rich couples legally separate for tax reasons. The topic is dicussed endlessly in higher government circles. If one partner stops working there is no disadvantage, so maybe it is a tax on greedy workaholics?
Great
So if are a non- Swiss wishing to join your Swiss partner in Switzerland, then the best option may be get married, wait for work permit, get divorced and live together?
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