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  #41  
Old 25.11.2015, 23:30
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

3Wishes i am not sure you are suppose to be on this trade try and change ur habit is very bad meanwhile i dont need ur reply ......
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  #42  
Old 25.11.2015, 23:31
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

nigelr you are 100 percent right
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  #43  
Old 25.11.2015, 23:52
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

What was the other question you said that no one would be able to answer?
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Old 25.11.2015, 23:55
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

Ville de geneva logo there is key on that logo do you know what that key represent
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  #45  
Old 26.11.2015, 00:06
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

no, but I don't live anywhere near Geneva...

I agree the questions he asked you seem kind of over the top, but it may be that he just didn't like your attitude and purposely asked you hard questions.
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  #46  
Old 26.11.2015, 00:18
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

My OH applied for facilitated naturalisation- after over 40 years married to a Swiss, and he definitely had to do quite a lengthy interview and answer lots of questions, about him, his family, Switzerland and his knowledge of, etc.
Of course they are entitled to ask questions- and you have to do your best to answer them- but you don't need to know all the answers- the way you deal with the interview and reply- and deal with the person and questions you can't answer- will be the key to success.
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  #47  
Old 26.11.2015, 00:27
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

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Ville de geneva logo there is key on that logo do you know what that key represent
It's Saint Peter's key. Do I get a cookie?

BTW that appears on the canton website for candidates to naturalization:

www.ge.ch/connaitre-la-suisse
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  #48  
Old 26.11.2015, 09:58
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

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It's Saint Peter's key. Do I get a cookie?

BTW that appears on the canton website for candidates to naturalization:

www.ge.ch/connaitre-la-suisse
I got 40/45 on the test, the wrong ones were all Geneva specific.

Tom
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Old 26.11.2015, 10:26
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

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I got 40/45 on the test, the wrong ones were all Geneva specific.

Tom
And presumably if you lived in Geneva and had applied for naturalisation you'd have done your homework beforehand and found the answers to those questions too. It's not really very difficult is it?
It makes sense to do that and anyone serious about becoming a Swiss citizen would know that and be prepared for the interview.
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Old 26.11.2015, 10:33
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

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My OH applied for facilitated naturalisation- after over 40 years married to a Swiss, and he definitely had to do quite a lengthy interview and answer lots of questions, about him, his family, Switzerland and his knowledge of, etc.
Of course they are entitled to ask questions- and you have to do your best to answer them- but you don't need to know all the answers- the way you deal with the interview and reply- and deal with the person and questions you can't answer- will be the key to success.
It's interesting to see how things differ. We have a (Serbian) friend who was granted her citizenship ( normal not facilitated) in Neuchâtel this year in June and all she had was a brief interview with the canton and a very short informal chat at the commune. She spent weeks stressing about them both and hours and hours learning about the history etc and took some extra French lessons to make sure her level was up to scratch but in the end it was really easy and straightforward.
The whole think took just over a year from start to finish.

I think they can tell pretty quickly who actually really wants to be Swiss and who is just doing it for convenience etc. it seems that Sunny falls into the latter category and was rumbled pretty quickly.
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  #51  
Old 26.11.2015, 13:05
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

Returning to the question of what happened in administrative terms in this case and what is likely to happen next, I'm trying to understand first of all exactly what kind of a naturalization application this is. It seems sunny is applying for facilitated naturalization as the spouse of someone who is applying for facilitated naturalization as the daughter of a Swiss citizen.


I'm slightly puzzled, though, as the circumstances under which the child of a Swiss citizen can apply for facilitated naturalization are quite limited, and (while we don't have full information about the details of this case) it doesn't seem as if they are likely to apply in this instance. As far as I know, the situations in which the non-Swiss child of a Swiss mother can apply for facilitated naturalization are: (1) when a minor who is applying while still under 22 years of age was not included in the naturalization application of the mother (Art 31a of the citizenship law), or (2) when the mother had Swiss citizenship prior to the child's birth but subsequently lost it (Arts 31b and 58a). I'm guessing, based on the information available, that sunny's wife is over 22 (so Art 31a is out), and it sounds like his mother-in-law is currently Swiss (through naturalization?) rather than being in the category of a woman who lost her citizenship prior to her daughter's birth. But it's possible, I suppose, that sunny's mother-in-law was Swiss at birth, lost her citizenship prior to her daughter's birth, and then regained it subsequently, in which case an Art 31b or 58a application by sunny's wife would be in order. Again, I'm just trying to understand the nature of the application, as it might have a bearing on how sunny's application is handled.


According to the federal authorities' administrative manual on citizenship (see sections 2.4.2.2.9 (c) and 2.4.2.2.10 (c), in https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/it/home...rgerrecht.html), the spouse of someone who is applying for facilitated naturalization under articles 31b or 58a may be "included" in the application, but what is actually being applied for in that case are two separate decisions, one on the 31b/58a application (for the main applicant and any minor children) and one for the spouse, who would be considered under the criteria laid down in article 27 or 28 (the provisions for facilitated naturalization for the spouses of Swiss citizens; article 27 is the one that applies for those resident in Switzerland).


Interestingly, applicants under articles 31b/58a (children of Swiss mothers) are specifically required to demonstrated "close ties" to Switzerland, while applicants under article 27 (spouses resident in Switzerland) are not, but a general requirement for all facilitated naturalization applicants, laid down in article 26, is that they "be integrated in Switzerland." Presumably questions about knowledge of the country are meant to test this. It might be argued that this is not the very best way to determine whether or not someone is "integrated," but if it's what the cantonal officials rely upon to make their judgement, it's probably best to study up and be prepared.


As for what happens next, it sounds like sunny will be called back in for another test, and hopefully his application will proceed without further delay if he does well on that. What might possibly be worth exploring in the meantime, if he and his wife would rather not lose any time on the application for her and their children, would be whether or not it would be possible for *her* application to be sent on to Bern -- since it is strictly speaking a separate application -- with sunny's to follow in due course. There might be the risk of some administrative confusion arising from the separation of the applications, but at least the wheels of the process would keep grinding forward.


Good luck ...
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  #52  
Old 26.11.2015, 13:34
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i agreed with you..i was calm but 9 answer out of 16 is not bad...

jhm3 you give me the best answer ever see on this thread,well the officer said, i should wait for three or six months for there response by letter.hopefully them will write to my wife for me to repeat the test which i am not too sure ...i will keep you and other members update on my procedure ...thanks

not really we talk alot i think the problem is it look very easy for me or fast because he ask and told me that is not long i came to Geneva swiss in general i said yes, well i don't really know what he thinks but he also told me that i was stress.which is true i was so stress because of the hard questions he ask

Last edited by 3Wishes; 26.11.2015 at 19:26. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #53  
Old 10.06.2016, 15:56
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

jhm3*#JUST TO INFORM EVERY ONE ON MY PROCEDURE I HAVE BE CELLED BACK FOR ANOTHER TEST LAST WEEK THIS TIME WITH A LOT OF 1815 TO 1830 QUESTIONS BUT THE QUESTIONER OFFICE WAS NICE ...TO ME THIS TIME ,AFTER EVERYTHING HE REPLY THAT I TRIED BUT I STILL NEED TO TRY MORE HE ALSO SAID HE WILL CALL ME BACK OR SEND ME MAIL AFTER REVELATION OF MY FILES TO HIS BOSS,THAT HIS BOSS HAS THE FINAL DECISION TO CALL ME BACK OR PROCEED TO BERN AS FAMILY APPLICATION ...THAT IS THE NEWS FOR NOW I DONT KNOW WHAT WILL BE THE NEXT...I AM KEEPING MY FINGER CROSS ...
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  #54  
Old 11.06.2016, 14:47
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

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According to the federal authorities' administrative manual on citizenship (see sections 2.4.2.2.9 (c) and 2.4.2.2.10 (c), in https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/it/home...rgerrecht.html), the spouse of someone who is applying for facilitated naturalization under articles 31b or 58a may be "included" in the application, but what is actually being applied for in that case are two separate decisions, one on the 31b/58a application (for the main applicant and any minor children) and one for the spouse, who would be considered under the criteria laid down in article 27 or 28 (the provisions for facilitated naturalization for the spouses of Swiss citizens; article 27 is the one that applies for those resident in Switzerland).
The document you cite does not bear a date. If it pre-dates 2013 it may not reflect current law: Facilitated naturalisation on the basis of marriage requires that the spouse be already Swiss (on the date of the marriage): http://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/467236...ja-suisse.html

(I now see this requirement was mentioned earlier. I'll leave it in place for the link.)
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Old 11.06.2016, 19:08
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

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The document you cite does not bear a date. If it pre-dates 2013 it may not reflect current law: Facilitated naturalisation on the basis of marriage requires that the spouse be already Swiss (on the date of the marriage): http://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/467236...ja-suisse.html

(I now see this requirement was mentioned earlier. I'll leave it in place for the link.)
That's generally true, but there is an exception in the case of the spouses of Swiss citizens who obtained their citizenship after marriage through facilitated naturalization on the basis of descent (or through restoration of previously held citizenship). Their spouses do have access to facilitated naturalization. The manual that lays all of this out (the link I provided) is current, and indeed this exception is preserved and written explicitly into the new (2014) citizenship law (the implementation of which remains pending).

The news article to which Caryl provides a link refers to a case in which a spouse sought facilitated naturalization on the basis of marriage to a Swiss citizen who had become Swiss after marriage through *ordinary* naturalization. In those cases, as the administrative tribunal confirmed, facilitated naturalization is not available.
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  #56  
Old 11.06.2016, 20:57
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

Actually jhm3's rejoinder is relevant to me and appreciated. My spouse was effectively told to 'get lost' by the Swiss consul here when we inquired about facilitated naturalisation so we engineered her naturalisation in the UK instead. Meanwhile the last of my many children (the others & offspring are all Swiss), British from birth but worried about Brexit, thinking of potential employment among the gnomes of Zurich (she works in the industry), married to a Frenchman, is putting her Swiss naturalisation dossier together.

If only I remembered the Swiss German my nana taught me instead of just the French: I'm sure it would all be super-facilitated. But what do I know.
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Old 11.06.2016, 23:02
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

thanks everyone..is just that i don't know how my procedure will play out i think because of me the procedure as gone slow..still don't know if them will send all the files to bern or separate my file from my family.
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  #58  
Old 17.06.2016, 22:11
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

did any one know what will be the next step to my own Naturalization procedure,after the second test and my resident permit has expire the OCPE called to inform me them cant not continue without the availability of resident permit, and the man look so in hurry asking me to send it my email as soon as the permit arrive....please any idea about what happen next..
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  #59  
Old 18.06.2016, 20:42
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

They wait to see if you get a new permit, if so then you send them a copy and process carries on.
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Old 19.06.2016, 23:24
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation - Documents and process

Thanks for your respose
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