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  #21  
Old 27.08.2007, 09:52
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

But you said quite clearly
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Good then I am 100% sure that you are talking poppycock. An L permit holder has no right to unemployment benefit and SOME B permit holders but by far the majority do have a right...
Now you are adding a rider.

Additionally, I had an L permit for three years, twice extended for twelve months, so that seems to kick your 3 x 6 months into a cocked hat too. It took no end of pestering both the Migrationsamt and the Bundesamt to get them to issue me a B
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  #22  
Old 27.08.2007, 11:54
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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But you said quite clearly

Now you are adding a rider.

Additionally, I had an L permit for three years, twice extended for twelve months, so that seems to kick your 3 x 6 months into a cocked hat too. It took no end of pestering both the Migrationsamt and the Bundesamt to get them to issue me a B
The Rules on L permits are quite clear but the Swiss authorities have for quite some time, since signing the bilateral agreement with the EU, abused the rules and extended L permits for EU citizens almost indefinitely. This situation is now normalising itself. Indeed if you actually go and read the bfm website for Zürich they talk about L permits being used as there is no quota for B permits being available which is simply not possible - EU citizens are as of June this year no longer subject to quota.
And seeing as you don't believe a word I say here is the official document published by the federal authorities...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Aufenthaltskategorien April 2007 korrigiert_d.pdf (34.8 KB, 234 views)

Last edited by Richard; 26.11.2007 at 14:53.
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  #23  
Old 27.08.2007, 12:10
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

Hi, Bigfacthunt. I see you're new here but you'll learn soon enough that Richard pretty much knows just about everything about just about everything.

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But you said quite clearly

Now you are adding a rider.

Additionally, I had an L permit for three years, twice extended for twelve months, so that seems to kick your 3 x 6 months into a cocked hat too. It took no end of pestering both the Migrationsamt and the Bundesamt to get them to issue me a B
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  #24  
Old 27.08.2007, 12:31
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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The Rules on L permits are quite clear but the Swiss authorities have for quite some time, since signing the bilateral agreement with the EU, abused the rules and extended L permits for EU citizens almost indefinitely. This situation is now normalising itself. Indeed if you actually go and read the bfm website for Zürich they talk about L permits being used as there is no quota for B permits being available which is simply not possible - EU citizens are as of June this year no longer subject to quota.
And seeing as you don't believe a word I say here is the official document published by the federal authorities...
It's not a matter of "not believing a word you say" Richard, and there is no need to take it personally, but if you put yourself up as an expert on topics, I would hope that you can be factually correct.
You quite clearly contradicted yourself here
Quote:
An L permit holder has no right to unemployment benefit
And this is simply not true
Quote:
An L Permit had officially before June 1st a maximum validity length of 18 months ie 3 x 6 months.
as I previously stated. Would you like me to PM copies of my L's renewed for 3 years??
I, like you I believe, simply want to help people, based on our knowledge and experience. Isn't it better to give the complete picture?

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Hi, Bigfacthunt. I see you're new here but you'll learn soon enough that Richard pretty much knows just about everything about just about everything.
Apparently not.
Perhaps new to the Forum, but not to Switzerland, and I have personal experience of the areas I am trying to clarify.
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  #25  
Old 27.08.2007, 12:42
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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Would you like me to PM copies of my L's renewed for 3 years??

EU permit, by any chance?
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  #26  
Old 27.08.2007, 13:08
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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EU permit, by any chance?
What relevance does that have in the context of contradicting the statement "An L Permit had officially before June 1st a maximum validity length of 18 months ie 3 x 6 months."
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  #27  
Old 27.08.2007, 13:13
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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What relevance does that have in the context of contradicting the statement "An L Permit had officially before June 1st a maximum validity length of 18 months ie 3 x 6 months."
The Swiss government did not apply its own rules regarding issuance and renewal of L permits for EU citizens. The L permits delivered to EU nationals were de facto B permits, and those nationals were treated according to the prescriptions pertaining to the B permits.

As such, in this forum we have taken (rightly or wrongly) to referring in general to extraeuropean nationalities when talking about the L permit and the legal obligations and dispositions pertaining to it.
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  #28  
Old 27.08.2007, 13:13
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

The key word there is oficially.

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What relevance does that have in the context of contradicting the statement "An L Permit had officially before June 1st a maximum validity length of 18 months ie 3 x 6 months."
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The Rules on L permits are quite clear but the Swiss authorities have for quite some time, since signing the bilateral agreement with the EU, abused the rules and extended L permits for EU citizens almost indefinitely.
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  #29  
Old 27.08.2007, 13:35
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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It's not a matter of "not believing a word you say" Richard, and there is no need to take it personally, but if you put yourself up as an expert on topics, I would hope that you can be factually correct.
You quite clearly contradicted yourself here
If the law clearly states the maximum validity for an L permit is 18 months and the Swiss authorities choose to ignore this point who is making the contradiction? Me for stating what is written in law? Or is it maybe somebody else, who for whatever reason chooses not to apply the written law?
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  #30  
Old 27.08.2007, 14:08
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

You seem to answer your contradiction about arbeitslosenkasse with an answer about the Bewilligung!
There are two points, you said quite clearly
Quote:
An L permit holder has no right to unemployment benefit
That is what you subsequently contradicted by adding your rider.


I additionally pointed out that, it is possible to have an L bewilligung for longer than 3*6 months/18 months regardless of
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the law clearly states the maximum validity for an L permit is 18 months
am I factually incorrect??
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  #31  
Old 27.08.2007, 14:30
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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The key word there is oficially.
You really seem to be missing my point. I am simply saying that a couple of statements made in this thread are not completely true, and have corrected them on the basis of my experience.
I in no way intend to insult the integrity of the person offering their input, just to make the picture more complete, for the benefit of futute readers

I appreciate that other contributors do so, in their own time, for the benefit of fellow members, but I would suggest that they place all the facts, rather than making false statements, which they must subsequently qualify.

nuff said. bfh

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  #32  
Old 27.08.2007, 14:32
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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You seem to answer your contradiction about arbeitslosenkasse with an answer about the Bewilligung!
There are two points, you said quite clearly That is what you subsequently contradicted by adding your rider.


I additionally pointed out that, it is possible to have an L bewilligung for longer than 3*6 months/18 months regardless of

am I factually incorrect??
You seem to have a bend on being specific. So, the fact that you have no right does not mean you will not get it. It means that if you are refused you have no basis in law to stake a claim. The "fact" that you got ALE is all well and good, but the idea of the information provided in this forum is to inform people of what they should expect or what they are entitled to. I am saying you should expect to not be able to get any unemployment benefit if you have an L permit as you do not meet one of the key requirements.

Here is an example of the kind of thing I am referring to. A person I know, ie this is a fact, swapped their driving license for a Swiss license and after 8 months was invited to a medical. I thought this most strange and rang up the Swiss authorities on their behalf. The person at the end of the telephone said this was normal for all holders of HGV(Heavy Goods Vehicle) licences. The fact that the person in question had never even been in a HGV never mind sitting a test was irrelevant they had been given a license to drive one.

Taking your standpoint, any person who swaps their license for a Swiss one will get a HGV license. Point is they will not. And every person who has an L permit and applies for unemployment benefit on the basis of your "facts" will get a similar shock.

So is this in fact a contradiction? All I have said is that with an L permit you are ***officially*** not integrated in the Swiss employment market and that is a requirement in order to claim unemployment benefit and this specific point is the reason why some people with B permits(never mind L permits) are shocked to find that after 4 years in Switzerland and paying into the system they are not entitled to anything and get factually nothing.

The basis of your confusion is a simple issue the Swiss have had for some time now. They do not have enough permits within the ***official*** contingent to meet demand and so they have abused the L permit as a pseudo B permit in particular for EU citizens. When the holder of the L permit then appears, to claim benefits to which they are entitled, the Swiss have a dilemma. Under the terms of the bilateral agreement the L permit holder is entitled to unemployment benefit and this is a higher legal instance than Swiss law in this respect. For this reason they must be paid. But do not expect this to happen to all L permit holders and do not spread the message that an L permit holder has the same rights as a B permit holder, as this is not fact and in a few years everyone will say such things never happened...
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  #33  
Old 27.08.2007, 14:35
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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What relevance does that have in the context of contradicting the statement "An L Permit had officially before June 1st a maximum validity length of 18 months ie 3 x 6 months."
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The Swiss government did not apply its own rules regarding issuance and renewal of L permits for EU citizens. The L permits delivered to EU nationals were de facto B permits, and those nationals were treated according to the prescriptions pertaining to the B permits.

As such, in this forum we have taken (rightly or wrongly) to referring in general to extraeuropean nationalities when talking about the L permit and the legal obligations and dispositions pertaining to it.
No relevance at all in fact.
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  #34  
Old 27.08.2007, 14:43
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

And you seem to have a "bend" on not being able to accept that your statements
Quote:
Good then I am 100% sure that you are talking poppycock. An L permit holder has no right to unemployment benefits
and
Quote:
An L Permit had officially before June 1st a maximum validity length of 18 months ie 3 x 6 months
are not factually correct. IE. Poppycock, as you so aptly put it.

Is it OK for you to contradict people, but not me??
All I would say is, get your facts 100% right please. If there are riders, quote them.

Last edited by bigfacthunt; 27.08.2007 at 14:45. Reason: correction
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  #35  
Old 27.08.2007, 14:45
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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No relevance at all in fact.
Speaking of relevance, none of this thread drift is helping to answer the original question which went like this:

Quote:
I am an American living in Switzerland for 3.5 years. I have a B Permit. I just quit my job. My B Permit expires in November. I wanted to stay in Switzerland and seek a new job.
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  #36  
Old 27.08.2007, 14:51
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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Speaking of relevance, none of this thread drift is helping to answer the original question which went like this:
well pointed-out, JVC.
Richard has quoted and cited the letter of the law. The problem is that, with so many wheels and cogs, some in the system either don't follow the exact rule or bend them.

You want rules bent proper, like, try Italy

If the posts are not on-topic, I'll happily delete them from this thread.
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  #37  
Old 27.08.2007, 15:06
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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Speaking of relevance, none of this thread drift is helping to answer the original question which went like this:
I think I actually answered this specific question with post 7... If that still left points unclear then ask the specific questions and I will endeavour to answer them according to law which may or may not be supported by facts ie what happens in an individual case.
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  #38  
Old 27.08.2007, 15:20
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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I think I actually answered this specific question with post 7... If that still left points unclear then ask the specific questions and I will endeavour to answer them according to law which may or may not be supported by facts ie what happens in an individual case.
Very true. Perhaps you would like to delete post 6 too, as it is incorrect.
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  #39  
Old 27.08.2007, 15:54
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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Very true. Perhaps you would like to delete post 6 too, as it is incorrect.
Thanks for the tip. I chose, on the basis that you misinterpreted my message, to make it clearer. I hope that the newer version meets with your approval.
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  #40  
Old 27.08.2007, 17:11
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Re: I just quit and my B Permit expires. Do I get kicked out?

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Thanks for the tip. I chose, on the basis that you misinterpreted my message, to make it clearer. I hope that the newer version meets with your approval.
Misinterpreted?? It was blatently incorrect Richard, and no, it does not meet with my approval. It is incredibly vague. How about some references?
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