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Old 14.01.2011, 11:50
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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Seriously mate.... don't stir up this thread with crap

The OP is going through a pretty difficult period, is genuinely looking out for constructive advice. The last thing they need is someone who's mouth opperates fater than their brain to write total crap and upset everyone.

Next time take two minutes on Google before you post something like that. It's completely insensitive.

http://www.health.vic.gov.au/ideas/bluebook/rabies
Ok, fair cop, rabies is out, but none of the other things I've said are incorrect, I am interested in the welfair of the child and the legal ramifications of this incident, not the plight of the dog.

Has the Child been to hospital? Has the child had a tetanus shot? Has the child had surgery? Have the authorities been informed? How serious is this bite?
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Old 14.01.2011, 11:51
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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it can be assumed that I am not the type of person to put a dog down immediately after it has bitten one person. Rather, I try to find answers and work through the problems. If it's impossible, then unfortunately that sad road has to be taken, but I do believe in working through problems. My only exception is when you come across a dog that is so over the edge aggressive there really is no hope and the dog in question here is not that type of dog.
Thank you natmay, I disagreed with alot of the "once a biter" comments - and shipping the dog off to another family without really ascertaining the "why".

I couldnt have articulated this any better.
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Old 14.01.2011, 11:53
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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Ok, fair cop, rabies is out, but none of the other things I've said are incorrect, I am interested in the welfair of the child and the legal ramifications of this incident, not the plight of the dog.

Has the Child been to hospital? Has the child had a tetanus shot? Has the child had surgery? Have the authorities been informed? How serious is this bite?
Mate I appreciate your point of view, but I don't agree, so I'd ask you to leave it at that.
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Old 14.01.2011, 11:58
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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Thank you natmay, I disagreed with alot of the "once a biter" comments - and shipping the dog off to another family without really ascertaining the "why".

I couldnt have articulated this any better.
Agreed.

It's critical to know "Why" or else you risk exposing yourself to the same danger again some other time.
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Old 14.01.2011, 12:02
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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Mate I appreciate your point of view, but I don't agree, so I'd ask you to leave it at that.
Well I don't agree with your point of view that the most important individual in this case is not the child but the dog!! The law is clear and I hope for the child's sake that she has been given the best quality care and has not been kept away from the hospital or the authorities.

Over and Out.
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  #46  
Old 14.01.2011, 12:06
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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There is rabies in Australia, look up the CDC web site, it is a remote possibility admittedly, but more of a possibility than in the UK as in the UK there is no rabies. But ok we shall assume the dog has had its shots, how about lock jaw for the kid as a result of the bite do you also not have tetanus in Aus? And I doubt a 10 month old child has had the required 5 shots to render her immune to tetanus.
You sir are an idiot, there is rabies in the UK however rare and uncommon. Border controls help to keep down rabies but cannot prevent as migratry animals tend not to bother with customs points, and pets smuggled illegally are unquantified, so the"free from rabies" is only really domesticated animals like dogs. Bats' are typical carries and a few years ago a Scots workman died after being bitten by a rabid bat when he disturbed a roost in a attic, not to mention and other animals they may infect in the wild.

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Unfortunately this happens quite a lot with Labradors, them being fashionable dogs at the moment, supposedly kid-friendly and being bred by the millions.

Sorry for your niece, I hope she won't have lasting injuries / scars / trauma.

My opinion: a dog that attacked a baby once will do it again. Sorry for the dog but I would not see any other option than putting it to sleep.
I've bred Labs for many, many years, and would dis-agree with the 'commoness' of lab bites, infact I would actually love MacGregors Daughter to provide any proof of that statement. I would actually say that the large number of labradors in ownership, compared with the very, very rare instances of bites/attacks would absolutely re-inforce the excellent reputation of the Labrador.

The OP doesn't specify whether it was an actual attack consisting of multiple bites, or one single bite, both scary enough when a baby is concerned, but one would be far more serious that the other in terms of the action required for the dog. One of mine did nip my leg once when he was a few years old raising the skin but not breaking it, I had just stood on his tail though, and it was just an instinctive reaction. I also see many adults who play ruff and tumble with their dogs, and the dog doesn't always then know what to do with a wee one.

All in all a bad time for the family, but it sounds like a good outcome is on the cards for the kiddie, and a sensible approach rather the the sabre ratlling comments from some is being taken for the dog, which shows the level of affection they have for their pet.... and I keep my fingers crossed for all concerned PerthPair
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  #47  
Old 14.01.2011, 12:08
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

Johnny, I am afraid you are wrong about the UK law. There is not an automatic destruction policy in the DDA. If the DDA is invoked, a court hearing including assessment is required before a destruction order can be issued.

Dogs who have bitten once are often responsibly, successfully rehomed - by people who know what they are doing to people who know what they are doing. Placed in the right home with people willing and able to work on rehab, dogs are successfully rehabilitated all the time - in the UK and throughout the world.

(As said before, my 'biter' went on to live a happy fulfilling life, interacting safely with others under my management, never having put a paw wrong again. Countless similar tales can be told by those who work in rescue and behavior rehab.)

That the family feel that rehoming is the correct thing to do should be the end of this discussion. They have the facts, they know the dog, they are able to assess the new family. We bystanders from thousands of miles away are in no position to judge the situation.

Wishing all the very best to your family, PerthPair.
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Old 14.01.2011, 12:19
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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Well I don't agree with your point of view that the most important individual in this case is not the child but the dog!! The law is clear and I hope for the child's sake that she has been given the best quality care and has not been kept away from the hospital or the authorities.

Over and Out.
I'm sure your concern is appreciated; however, if you re-read the thread, I think you'll find that the OP's niece has already been taken to hospital and is back at home, doing well.
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Old 14.01.2011, 12:32
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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I've bred Labs for many, many years, and would dis-agree with the 'commoness' of lab bites, infact I would actually love MacGregors Daughter to provide any proof of that statement. I would actually say that the large number of labradors in ownership, compared with the very, very rare instances of bites/attacks would absolutely re-inforce the excellent reputation of the Labrador.
You are a responsible breeder and therefore your dogs are well socialized and taken care of. The problem is that popular breeds get multiplied by the millions by people who see the money behind it, they get mistraeted, live in terrible conditions, are displayed in pet shop windows etc. These are the problem dogs.

I was trying to find a statistic that lists incidents by breeds, but I have just found ones listing the so-called fight dogs. Still searching...
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Old 14.01.2011, 13:17
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

I may have been a bit rash in saying that dogs that have bitten children are immediately destroyed, and I concede this point, I understand the authorities and legal process have to go through an assessment period to declare the dog dangerous before destruction.

But this does highlight my point that the authorities have to be involved, the dog has to be declared safe and then the owner can do what he/ she likes with the animal. This makes this whole discussion pointless - the authorities should decide these matters, and to my knowledge they do.

I believe a serious facial injury to a child is suitable to invoke a police investigation into both the animal and the treatment and supervision of the child.

As for the ad hominem attack on me by papa goose (one of many), I'd like to say that I forgive you and I accept any apology you are willing to give me. I also think the rabies comment was a little over the top and I apologise for that.
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Old 14.01.2011, 13:27
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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I believe a serious facial injury to a child is suitable to invoke a police investigation into both the animal and the treatment and supervision of the child.
Did I understand well? You think the police should get involve to look into the way the child is taking care by the parents???

You are saying that the parents are lacking supervision of the child? And this is why the dog attacked the child?
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Old 14.01.2011, 13:49
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

I should take some responsibility for some of the misconceptions on this thread, as I realise I did not fully explain the circumstances of the attack. My SIL was working in the kitchen with her daughter pottering around near her in the kitchen, when their dog came running through the back door and appeared to make a beeline for my niece, running into her and biting her face once. My SIL states she was "lucky to be able to get the dog off the baby", so, while it was "only" a single deep bite, my SIL felt it could have been worse (e.g. more bites) had she not been there.
But I must qualify this by saying that this was only her impression in an emotion-filled, highly scary moment of time. The full extent of what the lab may or may not have done if my SIL was not around can only be guessed at, with no degree of certainty whatsoever.
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Old 14.01.2011, 13:58
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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Did I understand well? You think the police should get involve to look into the way the child is taking care by the parents???

You are saying that the parents are lacking supervision of the child? And this is why the dog attacked the child?
I can confirm that you didn't understand well. Misrepresentation is the lowest form of argument.
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Old 14.01.2011, 14:01
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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I can confirm that you didn't understand well. Misrepresentation is the lowest form of argument.
...actually, spouting poorly researched nonsense is worse.
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Old 14.01.2011, 14:01
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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I should take some responsibility for some of the misconceptions on this thread, as I realise I did not fully explain the circumstances of the attack. My SIL was working in the kitchen with her daughter pottering around near her in the kitchen, when their dog came running through the back door and appeared to make a beeline for my niece, running into her and biting her face once. My SIL states she was "lucky to be able to get the dog off the baby", so, while it was "only" a single deep bite, my SIL felt it could have been worse (e.g. more bites) had she not been there.
But I must qualify this by saying that this was only her impression in an emotion-filled, highly scary moment of time. The full extent of what the lab may or may not have done if my SIL was not around can only be guessed at, with no degree of certainty whatsoever.
That looks like a jealousy reaction... Probably he saw the baby doing something and went straight to her in ''protection mode'' of his master...

I just really hope the little girl isn't going to keep any trace of this bite. I can only imagine how guilty the parents must feel (even if they did nothing wrong, guilt is just a part of parenthood, no matter the situation...)
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Old 14.01.2011, 14:03
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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I can confirm that you didn't understand well. Misrepresentation is the lowest form of argument.
Misinformation as miscommunication are also the lowest form of argument...
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Old 14.01.2011, 14:10
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

can people please stop quoting this idiot

thanks
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Old 14.01.2011, 14:21
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

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I was trying to find a statistic that lists incidents by breeds, but I have just found ones listing the so-called fight dogs. Still searching...
The 2009 stats from the Bvet are interesting, as Switzerland is one of the few countries were all dogs are registered, and there is mandatory reporting of bites:

http://www.news.admin.ch/NSBSubscrib...ents/19887.pdf

Page 10 breaks out the bites by breed group, pages 11-13 by breed alone. As you can see, labs have a pretty low incidence of bites.

But donning my former market researcher's hat for a moment...

Statistics are a snapshot of past occurrence, nothing more. The past is helpful in looking towards the future - largely because we don't have much else to go on - but past occurances cannot be taken by themselves as predictors of future occurances.

In this case, the breed of the dog is looked at - at best it can imply a correlation, not causality. Breed is an arbitrary factor in the analysis.

An assumption is being made that breed is a driving factor, largely because the breed/deed thing is a tenacious meme - but one may as well have done the analysis by eye color, day of the week, phase of the moon. Given the data here, we can't know what the driving factor was - which limits the usefulness of the data.

To fully understand the stats here we need to know much more about the circumstances surrounding each incident. This goes for any data set, of course. It is especially important here because bites are generally very situation specific, a response to a specific trigger.

Which is why individual solutions to individual cases is the best approach.

----


But all this is a tangent - the issue at hand is that we all wish PerthPair's niece and family well, and are pleased that a good resolution is in the offing.
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Old 14.01.2011, 14:29
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

Don't forget the old saying:
"There are Lies, Big Lies, and Statistics !!!"

You can always find evidence to support whatever it is you want to believe.


Incidences of dog attacks I still are more stongly correlated to the conditions the animal is raised in than by the breed.

Sure some breeds are more 'prone' to responding violently than others, however you should also equally assume that otherwise placid breeds are capable of the same evils.

The worst thing I've ever seen a Lab do is piss itself when you pat it.

...... this from a English Staffordshire Terrier owner who never once saw his dog even bark in anger.
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Old 14.01.2011, 14:38
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Re: Advice please re family dog attack

PerthPair I am really glad your neice is doing well and I hope your SIL is doing ok to. I wasn't sure if I should post on this thread as I didnt know exactly what to say. So all i can say is I agree with a lot of what has been previouly said and after the scare i had in december with my dog the advice is spot on. I love labs and have one myself, i dont know how to post links to the problem i had but all had worked out for me and i hope all works out for your family. I wish your neice a speedy recovery and hope that your family can overcome the accident.
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