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  #21  
Old 26.07.2011, 11:19
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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Thank you so much,
i used the swiss FVO site and found many trainers, i sent an email asking for their services.. Yes he needs all the help he can get, the SKN course will be taken once i get info on it.. I found 1-2 trainers in SZ area that offer english, rest are Deutch.

I will ask for private training classes, he is really out of control, I dont mind paying for this, its too embarrassing in public
I see that you are based in the kanton of zurich. I can put you in touch with a trainer that I've mentioned a few times on this forum, Carolina Jaroch - she speaks German, a bit of English and my dog did the SKN course with her, in her school in Albisgutli, Zurich city. Although short as our time was together, she really knows her stuff as we've chatted during the course about other possible extra training exercises that I've worked with my dog, and her methods come highly recommended by me.

http://www.animalcoach.ch/cms/index....ossraum-zurich

I am sure she is available for private lessons. You can work out the travel details with her. Tell her that Oskar's mummy sent you

I hope you sort the problems out re your dog soon.
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  #22  
Old 26.07.2011, 11:23
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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Hi all,

Need more dog trainers in SZ area, please let me know..English is important, but if they dont speak perfect english i dont mind

My dog is very bad compared to the others
he is very spoiled and walks my wife instead of my wife walking him...

He needs training badly,


Any help will be great, I dont mind investing the time into this, will make all of our lives better..

Please don't take this the wrong way....... but it sounds like you guys need the training more than the dog.

All the training in the world won't help you guys if you are not first prepared to accept that you have to adjust the way you treat the dog.


Give a dog an inch, and they'll take a mile.
after all, when did your dog last bring you YOUR dinner?


You have to be the boss, then your dog will love you forever and WANT to do everything right for you.


Be more assertive, and you will win every time with positive reinforcement.


Good luck with your training......... a good dog is the best asset you'll ever have.
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  #23  
Old 26.07.2011, 11:37
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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Please don't take this the wrong way....... but it sounds like you guys need the training more than the dog.

All the training in the world won't help you guys if you are not first prepared to accept that you have to adjust the way you treat the dog.


Give a dog an inch, and they'll take a mile.
after all, when did your dog last bring you YOUR dinner?


You have to be the boss, then your dog will love you forever and WANT to do everything right for you.


Be more assertive, and you will win every time with positive reinforcement.


Good luck with your training......... a good dog is the best asset you'll ever have.

I am not going to lie, you are very right.. We will consider our behavior as well, I will talk to my wife to improve ourselves before we train him.

We do need to stop, my wife is seeing that now, he is not used to small places, back in the US we had a nice back yard which he was free.

What should I do when he does a number 1 on our floor? some folks say, bring his nose to the pee and tell him no.. Ideas?

Also how should i train him to bark when he has to pee?

Thanks!
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Old 26.07.2011, 11:49
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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I am not going to lie, you are very right.. We will consider our behavior as well, I will talk to my wife to improve ourselves before we train him.

We do need to stop, my wife is seeing that now, he is not used to small places, back in the US we had a nice back yard which he was free.

What should I do when he does a number 1 on our floor? some folks say, bring his nose to the pee and tell him no.. Ideas?

Also how should i train him to bark when he has to pee?

Thanks!
I'm glad to hear you will go into this with an open mind.

Firstly, the best advice I can give you is this:

Dogs need BLACK AND WHITE rules....... without exception.

Your dog is in a completely new environment and needs to learn where the new rules are.

You have to be perfect, and also understanding that the dog needs to learn them....... try not to get frustrated, but rather try to understand 'why' the dog isn't picking up on the rule and perhaps try another technique.

I found that rubbing a dogs nose in 'whatever' didn't work, but rather a strong 'scoul' when the action was taking place was enough to stop them...... then IMMEDIATELY take them outside, and ensure that you offer them a lot of PRAISE for doing the right thing.

The dog won't bark when it wants to pee.... it will sit at the door, or find another way to let you know what it wants.


Hopefully this is an issue you can discuss with your new trainer.


Remember,
You are smarter than the dog, so when the dog isn't doing what you want. It's your fault.


Being a good dog owner means that a dog won't follow you because it has to........It will walk by your side because it wants too.
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Old 26.07.2011, 11:50
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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What should I do when he does a number 1 on our floor? some folks say, bring his nose to the pee and tell him no.. Ideas?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!! It doesnt teach the dog anything except for the mess on the floor is bad. Dogs learn by association.

For example: telling him to sit and treat, he will learn through a few repetitive actions, that the act of sitting is a good thing because he gets rewarded for that action.

Rubbing his face in his own urine does not teach him anything except for the fact that the mess is bad. He will not relate to the fact that it was the ACT of relieving himself is the one that you disapprove of. Unless you catch him RIGHT at the moment of getting into position, with a loud NO, and running him out to the correct spot for his pee, he will not learn anything.

This is the reason so many dogs will relieve themselves in inappropriate places and look really guilty about it, yet they continue to do it.


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Also how should i train him to bark when he has to pee?

Thanks!
No pun intended but you are taking the piss right?
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Old 26.07.2011, 11:50
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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I

What should I do when he does a number 1 on our floor? some folks say, bring his nose to the pee and tell him no.. Ideas?

Also how should i train him to bark when he has to pee?

Thanks!
Clone, these are out-of date ideas that have been proven to do far, far more harm than good. Please - do NOT do this!

How old is your dog? How long have you had him?

I must in the strongest terms advise you to get into a training class ASAP - as Bill says, training is all about YOU learning what YOU must do to help your dog.

The most important thing to understand in dog training is: Whenever my dog makes a mistake, it's really MY fault. I have failed to communicate to him what he should do, I have failed to teach him in a way he can understand.

Please get the book I recommended in my earlier post. And as you are waiting for it to arrive, see Dr Yin's website for lots of training tips, including house training:

http://drsophiayin.com/

There are many good trainers and behaviorist writing today; I've just recommended Dr Yin because I find her book a very good primer for the inexperienced dog owner, and her website offers accessible, practical information. She is a good starting point, but there are others just as good - the main thing is to follow training advise along the positive reinforcement model, from trainers who rejects the use of pain, force or fear.

But get thee to the Hundeschule - NOW!
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  #27  
Old 26.07.2011, 12:08
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Re: dog training in Zürich

Thanks for the advice all,

He is two years old and we had him since he came from the adoption agency in the US (adopted at 3 months old).

The best way to approach the pee problem seems to scold him with a loud NO, then show him where to pee.

But i saw some videos on youtube that showed that reppition with treats will train your dog.

Meaning, if you want him to come on command, call him with a treat in your hand, do this for 4 times, and on the 5th time dont use a treat but still say a praise. Develop a pattern treat 4x, no treat1x then reverse the balance, treat 1x call with praise 4x etc..

It gave me some confidence, but I will invest time to do this, he was a little wild dog in the US because he had his space and did what he wanted, but we will take a different angle with the training, the sites and books look good. Will look into it,

He will do anything for food, so this is our leverage in training.

How do you use treats to train him to pee? I guess we pick one or two spots that he can pee, and give him a treat when he does that way we train him to pee on command?
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Old 26.07.2011, 12:17
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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He is two years old and we had him since he came from the adoption agency in the US (adopted at 3 months old).

The best way to approach the pee problem seems to scold him with a loud NO, then show him where to pee.

He will do anything for food, so this is our leverage in training.

How do you use treats to train him to pee? I guess we pick one or two spots that he can pee, and give him a treat when he does that way we train him to pee on command?
A) Don't rely on the treats, but yes, it helps to initially gain their attention.

Using food is the Star Wars equivelant of a JEDI MIND TRICK.... so "use the force"

To be honest, I didn't want to become dependant on treats, so just always telling the dog how good he (and she) was and a good scratch was enough to get their tail into action.

Dogs only have immediate association, so please don't punish your dog if you find pee or poo around the house.
Scouling at them then and you've lost the moment for association..... rather, you should just know that there is more training required and pay a bit more attention.

If the dog comes to you while your cleaning, just ignore him. Save the praise for when the dog does the right thing.


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He is two years old and we had him since he came from the adoption agency in the US (adopted at 3 months old).

Last edited by TidakApa; 26.07.2011 at 12:17. Reason: B) There is intentionally no 'B' option
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  #29  
Old 26.07.2011, 12:24
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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How do you use treats to train him to pee? I guess we pick one or two spots that he can pee, and give him a treat when he does that way we train him to pee on command?
I used the crate training method. If your dog is not used to the crate since he was a puppy, its still possible to use it as a house training tool although you have to be really careful not to abuse it and lock him in the crate for too long.

Personally, I will really invest taking some time out to house train him. Employing a dog trainer can only do so much - giving you instructions etc but the rest is really up to you to execute her instructions. Why not start now?

The older the dog, the longer the time he can hold his bladder but all dogs need to eliminate every 5-6 hours. Some owners let their dogs hold it longer but doesnt mean that they can, they are comfortable doing it. General rule of thumb is before bed, first thing in the morning when they wake up and two more times during the day during walks. Usually after meals or an intense play session.

Start by establishing a very strict routine. First thing you get up in the morning, bring him straight out. Treat when he does it in the right place. Lots of praise and excited high voice. Bring him out again in about 2-3 hours - this is strictly a toilet trip. No communication during this time and only praise and treat when he eliminates. If he doesnt do it after a few minutes, no worries. Bring him back in without a word. Repeat again every 2-3 hours.

If he has an accident, dont react or acknowledge his actions, but clean it up calmly.

If you DO ever catch him getting in the position of doing it, express displeasure with a loud "ACCCCK!" or "NO!!" - whichever command you use to tell him that he is doing something wrong, rush him out to the correct pee spot - he will eliminate, trust me because he got stopped in his tracks.

Repeat praise and happy voice when he does it.

I understand that most people wont have the time to bring out their dogs every 2-3 hours due to work commitments, but the intervals that he goes out can be lengthened when your housetraining goes on, and he gets the message that "pee on this spot, ooh good. Pee on the one at home, i get nothing". Once he is fully house trained (meaning that the dog has a routine - trust me, dogs thrive on routine and discipline), you can wean off the treats. But personally, dont leave it more than 6 hours - just try imagining having to hold your bladder. You dont like it, your dog wont either

There are lots of good resources on google for "crate training" if you want to go down that route. I highly recommended it, even for older dogs. But if you are less than experienced owner, do make sure you speak to a trainer about implementing it correctly and not use the crate as a punishment.
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  #30  
Old 26.07.2011, 12:49
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Re: dog training in Zürich

Wow super helpful info, I will share with my wife later,

The crate method sounds great,

Crate+treats and attentions should go a long way. I guess the crate is like a special time out place..
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Old 26.07.2011, 12:50
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Re: dog training in Zürich

A 2 year old dog who is not house trained may have some physical issues - I'd recommend a trip to the vet for a thorough check up just to rule that out as a first step. Assuming that all is OK physically, then you have a training issue to address.

Whenever I have adopted an older dog with uncertain house training, I go back to basics, treat him exactly as if he were a puppy. That means: he is never out of my sight, usually on reach with a house line or tethered to me.

My method is similar to Summerrain's: We keep to a strict 'piddling opportunity' schedule, and in the times in-between at the first sign of piddle body language we are out the door like a shot. In short, in the first days/weeks my time is almost entirely devoted to training my new dog - but that investment pays off in the long run.

We go straight out first thing in the morning - even if that means in my jammies and slippers. Out again after meals, after drinking, after naps, pretty much every few hours. Your dog is now an adult, and assuming no medical problems should have the physical bladder control to hold it for a somewhat longer period than a puppy who might need out as often as every 15 minutes.

Start with short intervals, gradually lengthen the times between visits to the garden. If your dog piddles in the house, go back - leave a shorter time in-between visits outside.

You need to keep constant watch. Seriously. Your dog has somehow learned that it's OK to piddle inside, so now you must help him 'unlearn' this - and doing so requires vigilance. ANY sign of circling, dropping hind quarters, the slightest leg lift (male) - out you two go like a flash.

Keeping your dog at your side at all times in those first days helps you react in time.

Outside:

I take my new dog out, on lead in most cases. First order of business is piddling. No playing, no games - we have work to do first. The critical part is that you must go out with him, and stay with him the entire time.

I keep my body language neutral, saying nothing. When the dog makes the first move to piddle I say a 'piddle word', again, in a very neutral voice. The idea is to put the action on cue. Once the dog has piddled in the appropriate place, I give excited praise* and treat. Then, and only then, is the dog rewarded with the freedom to run around the garden and play games with me.

* (I use a clicker with my problem barker rather than excited praise, as emotion of any kind sends him onto Planet Belltie, undoing any learning for that session. YMMV.)

Praising/clicking and rewarding, when repeated consistently, teaches the dog that he has done the right thing.

Next step is to use that cue word. Once your dog is consistently piddling in the right place, take your dog out as before - but say the cue word. The dog should associate it with piddling, and do so. Praise/click and reward. Repeat repeat repeat.

If your dog makes a mistake and piddles in the house remember - YOU have made a mistake, you didn't react quickly enough to stop him and show him the right way. Do NOT punish him , simply ignore him, take him outside and do as above.

Punishment simply creates a fearful anxious dog, breaks the bonds of trust, and hinders learning. It is ineffectual at best, dangerous at worse. Please use only positive reward based training.

I have taught some of my dogs to signal when they need out. One loves brain training games of all kinds, so I have taught her to hit a target (a bell) when she needs to go out. This has it's downsides, though, as she quickly cottoned on to the fact that she could ring the bell whenever she wanted out for any other reason as well - to chase away the neighbor's cat or any other form of entertainment. An über-intelligent dog can be a challenge as well as a blessing.

Another of mine couldn't target his way out of a paper bag, but he has learned to stand at the door when he needs out. It's up to me to keep an eye on him and respond. As he wears a bell (he is deaf), I always know where he is and can react.

A third comes and gets me when he needs out. He sits at my feet and gives paw. It's the only trick he knows (he's a few fries short of a happy meal), so we used that.

In all cases, my job is to respond promptly when my dog signals - otherwise I am undermining his training.

With each of my dogs, I look for the signal that comes naturally to him/her, and then try to think how I can use that. One often needs to tailor the training method to the individual - as well as to what works for you, given your daily routine.

Yes, the constant vigilance in the first days is a bit of a PITA - but put the time in NOW and you will soon crack the house training problem.


ETA:

If your dog has been piddling in the house some of the urine scent might remain - even if you can't smell it. A dog's nose is far more sensitive than ours. If the dog can smell even a trace of urine he might see that as a marker for a good place to piddle - which would undermine your house training efforts. A good cleaning with an enzyme based product specifically designed to get rid of such odors is usually needed.
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  #32  
Old 26.07.2011, 12:55
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Re: dog training in Zürich

One last question, can any one advise pet odor neutralizers for dogs pee? COop or Migros might have it, what should i look for?
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Old 26.07.2011, 12:57
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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One last question, can any one advise pet odor neutralizers for dogs pee? COop or Migros might have it, what should i look for?
If you have a bleach-based spray cleaner, it will probably do the trick. But make sure pets do not get in direct contact with it.
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Old 26.07.2011, 13:00
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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A 2 year old dog who is not house trained may have some physical issues - I'd recommend a trip to the vet for a thorough check up just to rule that out as a first step. Assuming that all is OK physically, then you have a training issue to address.

Whenever I have adopted an older dog with uncertain house training, I go back to basics, treat him exactly as if he were a puppy. That means: he is never out of my sight, usually on reach with a house line or tethered to me.

My method is similar to Summerrain's: We keep to a strict 'piddling opportunity' schedule, and in the times in-between at the first sign of piddle body language we are out the door like a shot. In short, in the first days/weeks my time is almost entirely devoted to training my new dog - but that investment pays off in the long run.

We go straight out first thing in the morning - even if that means in my jammies and slippers. Out again after meals, after drinking, after naps, pretty much every few hours. Your dog is now an adult, and assuming no medical problems should have the physical bladder control to hold it for a somewhat longer period than a puppy who might need out as often as every 15 minutes.

Start with short intervals, gradually lengthen the times between visits to the garden. If your dog piddles in the house, go back - leave a shorter time in-between visits outside.

You need to keep constant watch. Seriously. Your dog has somehow learned that it's OK to piddle inside, so now you must help him 'unlearn' this - and doing so requires vigilance. ANY sign of circling, dropping hind quarters, the slightest leg lift (male) - out you two go like a flash.

Keeping your dog at your side at all times in those first days helps you react in time.

Outside:

I take my new dog out, on lead in most cases. First order of business is piddling. No playing, no games - we have work to do first.

I keep my body language neutral, saying nothing. When the dog makes the first move to piddle I say a 'piddle word', again, in a very neutral voice. The idea is to put the action on cue. Once the dog has piddled in the appropriate place, I give excited praise* and treat. Then, and only then, is the dog rewarded with the freedom to run around the garden and play games with me.

* (I use a clicker with my problem barker rather than excited praise, as emotion of any kind sends him onto Planet Belltie, undoing any learning for that session. YMMV.)

Praising/clicking and rewarding, when repeated consistently, teaches the dog that he has done the right thing.

Next step is to use that cue word. Once your dog is consistently piddling in the right place, take your dog out as before - but say the cue word. The dog should associate it with piddling, and do so. Praise/click and reward. Repeat repeat repeat.

If your dog makes a mistake and piddles in the house remember - YOU have made a mistake, you didn't react quickly enough to stop him and show him the right way. Do NOT punish him , simply ignore him, take him outside and do as above.

Punishment simply creates a fearful anxious dog, breaks the bonds of trust, and hinders learning. It is ineffectual at best, dangerous at worse. Please use only positive reward based training.

I have taught some of my dogs to signal when they need out. One loves brain training games of all kinds, so I have taught her to hit a target (a bell) when she needs to go out. This has it's downsides, though, as she quickly cottoned on to the fact that she could ring the bell whenever she wanted out for any other reason as well - to chase away the neighbor's cat or any other form of entertainment. An über-intelligent dog can be a challenge as well as a blessing.

Another of mine couldn't target his way out of a paper bag, but he has learned to stand at the door when he needs out. It's up to me to keep an eye on him and respond. As he wears a bell (he is deaf), I always know where he is and can react.

A third comes and gets me when he needs out. He sits at my feet and gives paw. It's the only trick he knows (he's a few fries short of a happy meal), so we used that.

In all cases, my job is to respond promptly when my dog signals - otherwise I am undermining his training.

With each of my dogs, I look for the signal that comes naturally to him/her, and then try to think how I can use that. One often needs to tailor the training method to the individual - as well as to what works for you, given your daily routine.

Yes, the constant vigilance in the first days is a bit of a PITA - but put the time in NOW and you will soon crack the house training problem.


ETA:

If your dog has been piddling in the house some of the urine scent might remain - even if you can't smell it. A dog's nose is far more sensitive than ours. If the dog can smell even a trace of urine he might see that as a marker for a good place to piddle - which would undermine your house training efforts. A good cleaning with an enzyme based product specifically designed to get rid of such odors is usually needed.

Just like the others, excellent advice! I will review this with my wife as we review ourselves of course

He is normal, vet ran tests before we left the US, but he is just not trained properly and its our fault.

Thanks everyone, this is super helpful!
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Old 26.07.2011, 13:15
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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Just like the others, excellent advice! I will review this with my wife as we review ourselves of course

He is normal, vet ran tests before we left the US, but he is just not trained properly and its our fault.

Thanks everyone, this is super helpful!
Its great that you've recognised areas for improvement. I think based on the info that you've given, he was simply used to running around in your garden in the US and eliminating whenever and wherever he likes. Unfortunately, space is a premium here and changes have got to be made.

Be patient and stick with it no matter how frustrating it gets, when on some days, all you want to do is to give him away to the first passing stranger (yes I've been there ). I am a firm believer of even older dogs can learn new tricks. Good luck!
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Old 26.07.2011, 14:33
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Re: dog training in Zürich

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Hello pet lovers and all
I did search EF for the following answer but could not find anything..

It looks as if we are finally getting a K9 companion again A 2 year old gentle giant (cane corso) name: Tyson

He is already well behaved but I still need and want to take some classes with him

Do you know of a good school?

thanks for your info..
Have you checked out the school in Wadenswill right next to the Migros Golf Park? I can't remember the name of the place (SORRY!), but we've seen the place when we went to the Golf Park. The place seems well equipped (have sent 3 dogs to boarding school for a long time, not in CH though), and the training seems good. Wadenswill should be easy enuogh to reach from SZ for you as well. Sorry that I don't have the name of the phone number, but if you search for the address of the Migros Golf Park in Wadenswil and drive there, you'll see this place. It's right next to it, and it's probably best to talk to them directly. Hope it helps!
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