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Old 29.03.2011, 14:59
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Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

Hi all

I've posted this elsewhere on an old thread but starting a new one too because I really need to get some feedback soon.

This is an incident that happened in an open area near my home in Grellingen, up near the woods. Lots of people walk dogs there and neither myself or my partner have every had any problems having a game of fetch with our dog..dogs are permitted.


Basically I need some advice urgently after a really distressing incident in the open grassy area I take my mini schnauzer to run off-leash. I would really appreciate any feedback, please let me know if I'm in the wrong or right.

So I was walking my dog and let her off leash to fetch a stick. I should say that my dog is very obedient, always comes when I call her. She wasn't out of my sight and no more than 10m away from me. I always walk her up to the fields on her leash and only let her off when it's safe. She's chipped, registered, insured, everything.

We spotted a neighbour with her lab/bull terrier cross in the next field (this woman always struggles to control this dog. She warns people not to go near her when she's walking it. To be honest I think she's the problem, the dog whilst big is just energetic. But she struggles with it) Anyway,she was about 250m away, her dog off the lead, she was throwing the ball for it. No problem. We were doing the same. Until she spots us and starts yelling at me to put my dog on the leash. My German is very patchy, and she was very far away. I shouted back that I didn't understand (I really didn't get why she was telling me to put my under-control dog on the leash when we weren't doing anything wrong and had every right to be there) but she wouldn't quit shouting at me. Her dog - which she then leashed - was straining and dragging her, clearly wanted to meet my dog. But I kept away from her - still 250m away - and continued throwing the stick for my dog. My dog didn't make any attempt to run away, and had no interest in the dog. She's well socialised and back home used to spend the days with a dog walker with a pack of up to 6-8 other dogs. Like I said she's obedient. She's also abut 7kg wet through. This woman continued yelling at me! Like, she was getting aggressive. I started to walk in the other direction with my dog. It got to the point where I decided to leave, leashed my dog to head to the road.

This woman then let her dog OFF the leash where it charged me and my dog. A 150lb dog. It wasn't aggressive, my dog was pretty freaked out though as was I to be honest. But her dog was playful. I stood my ground and held my dog at heel whilst she called it back. It didn't go back to her. All the while this woman was screaming at me and got closer, had to come all the way to leash her dog..shouting right in my face. All I kept saying was I don't understand you, why are you shouting at me, but eventually I got real sick of this woman who was getting madder and louder. So the only way I could I responded by saying 'control your dog' and then when I got mad, in English saying 'my dog is under control, you need to control yours' and I won't lie, there were some choice English words from me. This woman started mocking and taunting me and then started calling me a 'bloody whore'...I'm walking away all this time and she's following me. Eventually she got bored and walked the other direction.

So I'm really, really mad and upset. I don't know if I should report her to the Gemeinde or if I'm the one who's wrong?! PLEASE help! I have to live in the same building as this woman!

Carrie
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Old 29.03.2011, 15:06
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

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Hi all

I've posted this elsewhere on an old thread but starting a new one too because I really need to get some feedback soon.

This is an incident that happened in an open area near my home in Grellingen, up near the woods. Lots of people walk dogs there and neither myself or my partner have every had any problems having a game of fetch with our dog..dogs are permitted.


Basically I need some advice urgently after a really distressing incident in the open grassy area I take my mini schnauzer to run off-leash. I would really appreciate any feedback, please let me know if I'm in the wrong or right.

So I was walking my dog and let her off leash to fetch a stick. I should say that my dog is very obedient, always comes when I call her. She wasn't out of my sight and no more than 10m away from me. I always walk her up to the fields on her leash and only let her off when it's safe. She's chipped, registered, insured, everything.

We spotted a neighbour with her lab/bull terrier cross in the next field (this woman always struggles to control this dog. She warns people not to go near her when she's walking it. To be honest I think she's the problem, the dog whilst big is just energetic. But she struggles with it) Anyway,she was about 250m away, her dog off the lead, she was throwing the ball for it. No problem. We were doing the same. Until she spots us and starts yelling at me to put my dog on the leash. My German is very patchy, and she was very far away. I shouted back that I didn't understand (I really didn't get why she was telling me to put my under-control dog on the leash when we weren't doing anything wrong and had every right to be there) but she wouldn't quit shouting at me. Her dog - which she then leashed - was straining and dragging her, clearly wanted to meet my dog. But I kept away from her - still 250m away - and continued throwing the stick for my dog. My dog didn't make any attempt to run away, and had no interest in the dog. She's well socialised and back home used to spend the days with a dog walker with a pack of up to 6-8 other dogs. Like I said she's obedient. She's also abut 7kg wet through. This woman continued yelling at me! Like, she was getting aggressive. I started to walk in the other direction with my dog. It got to the point where I decided to leave, leashed my dog to head to the road.

This woman then let her dog OFF the leash where it charged me and my dog. A 150lb dog. It wasn't aggressive, my dog was pretty freaked out though as was I to be honest. But her dog was playful. I stood my ground and held my dog at heel whilst she called it back. It didn't go back to her. All the while this woman was screaming at me and got closer, had to come all the way to leash her dog..shouting right in my face. All I kept saying was I don't understand you, why are you shouting at me, but eventually I got real sick of this woman who was getting madder and louder. So the only way I could I responded by saying 'control your dog' and then when I got mad, in English saying 'my dog is under control, you need to control yours' and I won't lie, there were some choice English words from me. This woman started mocking and taunting me and then started calling me a 'bloody whore'...I'm walking away all this time and she's following me. Eventually she got bored and walked the other direction.

So I'm really, really mad and upset. I don't know if I should report her to the Gemeinde or if I'm the one who's wrong?! PLEASE help! I have to live in the same building as this woman!

Carrie
You have to report her, the authorities may tell you that she is slightly derranged in which case you will calm down and understand it wasnt a natural incident. If you don`t report her, she will do it again to someone else and probably cause a much more serious incident. In any case the authorities need to know because anybody that behaves like that is in need of help.
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Old 29.03.2011, 15:10
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

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Old 29.03.2011, 15:12
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

Speaking as a person who used to have the problem dog, she is definitely in the wrong. I knew my dog was likely to have a problem with other dogs, and I didn't let him off the lead unless I could see for miles around that we were alone, as I knew I wasn't able to control him. She sounds utterly mental.
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Old 29.03.2011, 15:18
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

You have every right to be cross - you are entitled to the open space and let your dog off the lead as much as she does. Who does she think she is to tell you to put a lead on your dog? Cheeky mare.

In my books, she has crossed the line by calling you "bloody whore". I wouldnt have been that tolerant and would have tried to ascertain her details with her dog's tag and make an official complain to the gemeinde.

Let this incident pass and ignore her. However, the next time she does it again (shouting etc) - tell her that you will be reporting her actions and the dog's to the police. She needs to learn that shouting and bullying other people into giving her space isnt right but getting herself properly trained to handle a dog of that size is. If her dog isnt trained to be off lead and bouncing onto people like that, he SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED. Especially bigger dogs who are excitable and have no concept of their strength which can scare (and even hurt!) the smaller dogs and children. Thats highly irresponsible dog ownership.

I am sorry to hear about this unpleasant incident. A glass of vino always helps
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Old 29.03.2011, 15:24
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

I agree with Grumpygit.......... but at the same time, I also think you were a little at fault as well (but I'll get to that later).

Firstly,
The woman is a psycho, and the size or breed of the dog is absolutely no excuse for not having it under control.
She also knows this, and seems to expect THE WHOLE WORLD to adapt to her ineptness.

Aggressively provoking you, following you, and verbally threatening you is inexcusable behaviour under any and all circumstances.

She does have to be reported, she has to learn how to control her dog for her own sake, and for those around her......... and for the dog (having Bull terrier in it is already a mental hurdle for a lot of people).

The dog,
Now I was glad to hear that the dog, 150lb pitty or whatever, was not aggressive, and I can understand you were freaked out, but at least we can attribute the psycho behaviour to the woman and not the dog.
....... so let's forget the Terrier and weight component.


For you,
Now, this is where I thought you were at fault a little bit.
The way you wrote this, it implied that you were already aware of this dogs behaviour and the womans inability to control the dog, and it seems that you fear this dog.
If you see this dog again, you know what will happen, so it's in yours and your dogs best interest to 'leash up' and leave.
Right or wrong....... if this dog snaps and takes a chunk out of you or your dog, you'll never forgive yourself.
Stuff the law.

You do have to report this woman as she has no right continuing NOT to address her issues on others, infringing on their freedom to exercise their hound.

I'm assuming others have issues with this woman, so perhaps you should all discuss some action in the park.

Personally I'd prefer the issue be resolved by simply talking to the woman in the first place, but I seem to get the impression it's not likely she'll respond positively........ but I would at least try (if only to eliminate this from the equation and give her no chance to complain)

and that's my two cents.
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Old 29.03.2011, 15:29
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

Im not sure if its cantonal or federal but the law requires certain dogs to be muzzled in public -
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Old 29.03.2011, 15:29
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

it sounds like the law should require some owners to be muzzled too!
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Old 29.03.2011, 15:33
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

I'm really sorry you had to go through this ugly episode!
I am sure you should report her, she verbally attacked you ...WTF???!!!
Plus it sounds like she really needs to learn to control her dog, poor thing must be miserable ( the dog I mean)...yes report her!
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Old 29.03.2011, 15:39
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

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I agree with Grumpygit.......... but at the same time, I also think you were a little at fault as well (but I'll get to that later).

Firstly,
The woman is a psycho, and the size or breed of the dog is absolutely no excuse for not having it under control.
She also knows this, and seems to expect THE WHOLE WORLD to adapt to her ineptness.

Aggressively provoking you, following you, and verbally threatening you is inexcusable behaviour under any and all circumstances.

She does have to be reported, she has to learn how to control her dog for her own sake, and for those around her......... and for the dog (having Bull terrier in it is already a mental hurdle for a lot of people).

The dog,
Now I was glad to hear that the dog, 150lb pitty or whatever, was not aggressive, and I can understand you were freaked out, but at least we can attribute the psycho behaviour to the woman and not the dog.
....... so let's forget the Terrier and weight component.


For you,
Now, this is where I thought you were at fault a little bit.
The way you wrote this, it implied that you were already aware of this dogs behaviour and the womans inability to control the dog, and it seems that you fear this dog.
If you see this dog again, you know what will happen, so it's in yours and your dogs best interest to 'leash up' and leave.
Right or wrong....... if this dog snaps and takes a chunk out of you or your dog, you'll never forgive yourself.
Stuff the law.

You do have to report this woman as she has no right continuing NOT to address her issues on others, infringing on their freedom to exercise their hound.

I'm assuming others have issues with this woman, so perhaps you should all discuss some action in the park.

Personally I'd prefer the issue be resolved by simply talking to the woman in the first place, but I seem to get the impression it's not likely she'll respond positively........ but I would at least try (if only to eliminate this from the equation and give her no chance to complain)

and that's my two cents.
I agree, I got a bit stubborn in not leaving but at the time I couldn't see why I was doing anything wrong. I didn't see why she should tell me what to do in a space where we all have a right to exercise our dogs. But in hindsight, with my poor language skills it was foolish to put myself and my dog at potential risk. Although I have seen this dog before, I'm not afraid of it...I've had dogs my whole life and I can tell this dog isn't dangourous, just giddy and poorly trained; frustrated through lack of exercise would be my guess, the woman is clearly afraid of it though. But I do absolutely take the point, that some battles aren't worth fighting..my partner has spoken to Swiss friends who have also agreed that we should go to the gemeinde about this. It wasn't worth trying to make a point in that situation.
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Old 29.03.2011, 15:44
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

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I agree, I got a bit stubborn in not leaving but at the time I couldn't see why I was doing anything wrong. I didn't see why she should tell me what to do in a space where we all have a right to exercise our dogs. But in hindsight, with my poor language skills it was foolish to put myself and my dog at potential risk. Although I have seen this dog before, I'm not afraid of it...I've had dogs my whole life and I can tell this dog isn't dangourous, just giddy and poorly trained; frustrated through lack of exercise would be my guess, the woman is clearly afraid of it though. But I do absolutely take the point, that some battles aren't worth fighting..my partner has spoken to Swiss friends who have also agreed that we should go to the gemeinde about this. It wasn't worth trying to make a point in that situation.
I also think you would be right to report it. An undisciplined dog is an unpredictable dog and while it was being dizzy and boisterous with you and your dog, there's no way of knowing whether it will turn aggressive with another dog or with a child. Then you would never forgive yourself.

Now, the worst that can happen is Mrs Shouty will just ignore you on the staircase, which, by the sounds of her, doesn't sound too bad...
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Old 29.03.2011, 15:45
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

Also thank you to everyone who's said nice things, I feel a whole lot better now. We'll see how it goes..next time I'll stay well away although it does make me mad that I will have to take myself and my dog home from a nice walk just to avoid this nutter!
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Old 29.03.2011, 16:05
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

Have a German speaker you know draft up an anonymous "From your neighbors..." letter and put it in her mailbox, clearly explaining that any further episodes of her dog being uncontrollable and insults towards fellow citizens (punishable by Article 177 of Swiss Civil Law) will be reported to the authorities.
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Old 29.03.2011, 16:06
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

I'm very sorry about this incident. No need to say I cannot approve that woman's behavior at all. However, what downright puzzles me is the fact that you wrote she called you a "bloody whore." Did she say so in English? Or, if not, what exactly did she say? Could it be that you misheard something?

I mean, outside a fookin' 'merikin ghetto it's utterly unusual to call someone a bloody whore. My English is not quite bad, but even in the absolutely worst case I'd still conjure up a considerable amount of other expletives before I'd come up with "bloody whore." Even more so in German, including Swiss German. If she really said such a thing, I think more should be done than just taking the dog away from her. But, as I said, I suspect you might have misconstrued her words.

Let's not forget that in Swiss German the word "huere" is about the same as that present participle of an English verb having to do with sexual intercourse the way it is used in American English (see above), in other words, it's equivalent to "very" and the like. Terms like "huere gross," "huere schön," ""huere lieb vo dir" (!!!) etc., will hardly ever raise an eyebrow these days.

It's just a detail, I know, but might be essential in case something similar happens again.
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Old 29.03.2011, 16:22
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

It's fairly likely I misheard her..she was speaking Swiss German faster than I could properly follow..and she was kinda screaming. I think you're right. It was something like 'blutig huere' which I have assumed to be 'bloody whore' but I see could be somewhat different. It was definitely hostile but maybe not quite as unpleasant as I thought. My knowledge of Swiss German swearing is evidently even patchier than my conversational German!
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Old 29.03.2011, 16:57
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

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I'm very sorry about this incident. No need to say I cannot approve that woman's behavior at all. However, what downright puzzles me is the fact that you wrote she called you a "bloody whore." Did she say so in English? Or, if not, what exactly did she say? Could it be that you misheard something?

I mean, outside a fookin' 'merikin ghetto it's utterly unusual to call someone a bloody whore. My English is not quite bad, but even in the absolutely worst case I'd still conjure up a considerable amount of other expletives before I'd come up with "bloody whore." Even more so in German, including Swiss German. If she really said such a thing, I think more should be done than just taking the dog away from her. But, as I said, I suspect you might have misconstrued her words.

Let's not forget that in Swiss German the word "huere" is about the same as that present participle of an English verb having to do with sexual intercourse the way it is used in American English (see above), in other words, it's equivalent to "very" and the like. Terms like "huere gross," "huere schön," ""huere lieb vo dir" (!!!) etc., will hardly ever raise an eyebrow these days.

It's just a detail, I know, but might be essential in case something similar happens again.

Honestly, does it matter?

She was screaming at her, rarely someone will scream at somebody else and call her my little sweet heart. Doesn't matter which words she used, what does matter is the attitude she had.
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Old 29.03.2011, 16:59
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Considering you live in the same building as this woman, is it worth considering taking a native speaker with you, politely knocking on the door to have a civil conversation?

Yes it's not nice to have run-ins with her when you're in a field - but it's even more of a pain if she starts making trouble for you with your rental agency.

I agree she was in the wrong and someone of authority should speak to her - but I've dealt with neighbors who make trouble for us because of our dog and it's stressful.
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Old 29.03.2011, 17:07
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

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Honestly, does it matter?

She was screaming at her, rarely someone will scream at somebody else and call her my little sweet heart. Doesn't matter which words she used, what does matter is the attitude she had.
Agreed Nil,
We shouldn't get caught up in the small stuff. It's clear that what was said wasn't nice.


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Considering you live in the same building as this woman, is it worth considering taking a native speaker with you, politely knocking on the door to have a civil conversation?

Yes it's not nice to have run-ins with her when you're in a field - but it's even more of a pain if she starts making trouble for you with your rental agency.

I agree she was in the wrong and someone of authority should speak to her - but I've dealt with neighbors who make trouble for us because of our dog and it's stressful.
JanerMacP,
You are BANG ON !!!

Even though we can all safely assume the mental case ISN'T going to comply, it's always in your best interests to try face to face.
Express your concerns...... then it's done.

eg. We've all been to a party where the cops just rock up, and even if you turn the music down, you still wonder who the guttless prick was who called in the first place.
Had that person just come and asked.... you'd probably just say sorry, and turn the music down. No need for the cops

However, if you've been told..... and you continue...... you just earnt the full wrath of the law, and you only have yourself to blame.

(poor example maybe, but that's how I see things. Don't hide behind the skirt of the law if you don't have to).
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Old 29.03.2011, 17:13
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

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Even though we can all safely assume the mental case ISN'T going to comply, it's always in your best interests to try face to face.
Express your concerns...... then it's done.

eg. We've all been to a party where the cops just rock up, and even if you turn the music down, you still wonder who the guttless prick was who called in the first place.
Had that person just come and asked.... you'd probably just say sorry, and turn the music down. No need for the cops

However, if you've been told..... and you continue...... you just earnt the full wrath of the law, and you only have yourself to blame.

(poor example maybe, but that's how I see things. Don't hide behind the skirt of the law if you don't have to).
Reading the OP's first post I think we can safely assume that the face-to-face stage was covered at the dog-walking site and none-to-successfully at that. I don't think I would want to ring on the door for a chat with someone who had been screaming in my face earlier in the day.

Not without a fully charged taser in my pocket, anyway.
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Old 29.03.2011, 17:14
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Re: Am I wrong to be cross or am I missing the point?

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Agreed Nil,
We shouldn't get caught up in the small stuff. It's clear that what was said wasn't nice.




JanerMacP,
You are BANG ON !!!

Even though we can all safely assume the mental case ISN'T going to comply, it's always in your best interests to try face to face.
Express your concerns...... then it's done.

eg. We've all been to a party where the cops just rock up, and even if you turn the music down, you still wonder who the guttless prick was who called in the first place.
Had that person just come and asked.... you'd probably just say sorry, and turn the music down. No need for the cops

However, if you've been told..... and you continue...... you just earnt the full wrath of the law, and you only have yourself to blame.

(poor example maybe, but that's how I see things. Don't hide behind the skirt of the law if you don't have to).
Well unless she attacked another person recently she is going to have a reasonably good idea who put the complaint in. If Carrie just goes for the peace pipe, then nothing will come of it until this lunatic decides to nuke somebody else, who may suffer infinitely more stress. If some guy in the high street or on the train came on to you big time, would you ask his address to pop round for tea and a chat or would you stop by the next station and ask someone to call the police.Suggesting that Carrie might get grief because Gengis Khan is a neighbour is ridiculous. She took Carrie on without worrying about the consequences, so why should Carrie back down now for a peaceful life. No way.Either she has a problem that is being treated, she hasnt been taking the pills and someone needs to know, or she needs some and someone needs to know.
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