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Old 27.06.2011, 20:46
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laminitis/fourbure in horse

Help- our neighbour puts her 2 retired army horses(haflinger) in our field. Sadly one of them has developed laminitis (fourbure in French) - she is asking if there is any horse specialist who has experience of this. She has put the horse on a diet, cooling the feet, lower legs with water and vinegar- and will get the farrier to remove the shoes.

She would be very grateful for any advice - Thanks all.
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Old 27.06.2011, 20:49
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

I will ask to my german friend if she has an advice.
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Old 27.06.2011, 21:00
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

Hello Odile!

Your neighbour should call the vet as soon as possible. Laminitis is a very dangerous and painful illness for the horse.

I would call a vet AND a good therapist for horses who has knowledge in acupuncture. I appreciate conventional and alternative medicine very much (I´m a horse-therapist).

I hope the horse gets help as fast as possible!

I wish all the best and a quick recovery!
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Old 27.06.2011, 21:01
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

wow, you're fast, very fast, my friend
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Old 27.06.2011, 21:04
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

I used to feed my horse bute or Phenylbutazone to give it it's posh name. It is a painkiller that is given as a food supplement but I do not know the availability here, I'm afraid. I also know some Bute substitutes are also available online.

I know it is no cure but if the old boy is in pain it could ease him somewhat.

Gal x
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Old 27.06.2011, 21:25
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

Thanks all. The thing is, she's called the vet and the farrier- but she was hoping for a 'miracle' cure- and I posted for her as she seemed so upset- knowing full well that it is unlikely to exist. All the advice on internet says to de-shoe, but her farrier said it would not make a difference. She will call another tomorrow. We live out in the sticks- and they are modest farmers (I know many in CH are very rich, but they are not) and it's difficult to ask the vet every few days. With that in mind, any advice is very welcome. Nobody in this area does acupuncture for horses, sadly- and the 'human' acupuncturist I know here (a very good friend) said he wouldn't dare do it on horses.
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Old 27.06.2011, 21:32
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

I know that it is difficult (and expensive) to ask the vet every few days, but Laminitis is an absolute emergency case and there´s no miracle cure for it. I`m relieved to hear that the vet was called but sorry to hear about the acupuncture (strange, once you know how to handle acupuncture, you can use it for humans and animals because we have the same meridians??)

Anyway, I´m sorry that I´m too far away to help with that.

Galatea´s advices concerning Bute and Phenylbutazone are very good, but here in Germany, they are known as really heavy medicine. Your neighbour should ask the vet about that before she orders such stuff (and they are expensive too).

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 27.06.2011, 22:23
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

One of our horses got laminitis and it can be quite hard to treat. It can be triggered by spring grass but sometimes the horse can just be predisposed due to a bad digestive tract.
If the horse has quick treatment sometimes it can be nipped in the bud, sometimes it can be bad enough when the foot growth is so severe that the horse will have to be put down.
We were recommended to give a gentle walk and not excessive exercise and certainly not put the horse in a stable as no exercise can cause problems as well.
Hope all will be well - it can be very painful.
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Old 27.06.2011, 22:40
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

Thanks Smackerjack - been Googling all evening. both French and English sites. She will definitely call another farrier tomorrow and get the horse de-shoed. I'm going to do my best to persuade to call the vet again - but they are having a tough time financially, and I can only try. She is restricting food, bathing with salted vinegar water to cool, and giving anti-imflammatories (told her to check with the vet that they are non-steroidal- she is a 'good egg' but will only hear what she wants to hear. I hate being 'pig in the middle' like that - but will do my very best. Going away for 3 days unfortunately - so hope things will be better when we return.
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Old 27.06.2011, 22:54
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

Actually, some farriers do not like to remove the shoes, as if anti flams work the shoes do support the foot and protect the frog. It really depends how bad it is.
If the farrier does remove the shoes make sure that she does not walk him on hard ground.
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Old 28.06.2011, 08:43
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

the best is really to cool the hooves constantly, if there is a stream/river close by put the horse in there, otherwise 4 buckets will have to do the trick (the horse will not mind it at all, vets/scientists have observed wild horses standing in the stream by themselves to cool the hooves in such events), and sorry to say but a vet is of uttermost importance to treat this! trying to handle it alone will most likely only make it worse, specially if there is a rotation of the bone...even if your neighbor is financially not so well off, maybe she can agree with the vet to pay in installments over a year or so, vets are also just people and they can understand this.
all the best for the horse and I really hope it gets better soon!
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Old 28.06.2011, 15:46
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

A Vet would be the most qualified to help you with something as serious as this; I can recommend a few in the BL / ZH area and strongly suggest that your friend does not wait any longer.

I wish you well since my horse just had 2 major operations at the TierSpital in Zürich. I would also strongly suggest a 2nd and 3rd opinion since my main Vet was not a specialist with that particular illnes and we learned the hard way (back and forth over 3 years until surgery was the only option).
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Old 28.06.2011, 17:00
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

I agree with FriesianCatRider, get a 2nd opinion. One of our horses had a swollen ankle and was in a lot of pain, 2 different vets came up and gave 2 very different opinions (basically guesses), we were ready to take her into the hospital in Zurich when our Farrier came up, took one look and found a splinter of wood, he removed it and we applied antiseptic cream and 3 days later she was trotting around again.

Many vets here can be good with cows and dogs but are not horse specialists.

And Tractor Girl, I know you have horses, care to explain the groan for Odile?
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Old 28.06.2011, 19:27
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

Here is a very good article on Laminitis

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horse...370/57937.html

Once a horse has had Laminitis they are more prone to it. Fingers crossed this horse has Acute Laminitis and not Chronic Laminitis which is where the pedal bone rotate through the hoof. This damage is permanent!

Irrelevant of how severe this case is the horse should be box rested, not fed any hard feed and very limited hay, preferably in a hay net with small holes or in two hay nets. This will slow the rate that the horse feeds and stop it getting bored. It is imperative that this horse sees a vet. Laminitis is manageable and personally i feel lack of experience and often ignorance doesn't help.

Hopefully once this horse has recovered it will need very
careful monitoring, restricted grazing and a very watchful eye. Acute laminitis
comes on very quickly but there are signs the horse / pony will have a very solid top line (where the mane is) and maybe a little foot sore. They are most likely to be very overweight and seem to live on thin air. Also when there has been lack of rain and then suddenly lots of rain the grass is very rich and this is when things can go wrong. Supplements which are costly will help I throughly recommend LAMIGARD from Equine America.

http://www.equine-america.co.uk/prod...?prod=lamigard

Here is another link this explains everything very well.

http://www.equine-america.co.uk/docs...oredetails.pdf

I hope this helps and wish the horse a speedy recovery.





If I can help any more please shout.
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Old 30.06.2011, 17:59
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

Just come back from a visit to the Zurich area- and not seen my friend the farmer or Zorette the horse yet. Will get back to you when I know how they are getting on- but just wanted to say thank you to all for your advice. It's so difficult as it is NOT my horse, and NOT my decision- but I'd love to help if I can as we've got quite fond of Zorette and Mandolin who are often in our field. I find it very hard to believe that one person has groaned me- but, hey.. it takes all sorts.
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Old 12.07.2011, 15:23
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

Coming a bit late to this thread as have been away, but have a lot of experience here, so will add this albeit so late. Not a vet, but worked with a horse vet very closely for many years treating a barn of 75+ horses.

First, I assume your friend knows what she is talking about and can correctly diagnose laminitis, or founder as we more generally called it. It can be confused with other ailments, so important to have the correct diagnoisis by experienced horse vet first. A foundered horse will generally have hot hooves and walk very painfully like on tiptoes or front feet not articulating normally.

Once a horse has foundered, there is generally no 'cure' as such, but there is a lot to do to alleviate the condition. I had direct handling of one foundered horse, and with the right treatment she went on to do nearly everything she had done previous, ridden daily and jumped. With a so called 'retired' horse as your friends, she should be ok longer term with the right treatment, and live a good life to the end being turned out and presumably limited exertion, if retired.

The first course of action with a foundered horse we did was immediately stand them in ice water for as long as possible at least 2x per day, examine their diet as often founder can be caused by a change in diet (espcially in spring when horses first go out to lush pastures if stabled in winter) and change to a bland diet of pellets and old hay, and get the farrier involved. On the farrier issue, it is important to have one experienced in founder, there is a lot a farrier can do to alleviate or almost cure a foundered horse. Discussion between the vet (after x-rays) and the farrier is very important so he knows exactly how to treat the inflamation. In no cases that I know of has the farrier pulled the shoes entirely, rather they make the adjustments medically needed in re-shoeing. This often meant changing the angle of of the hoof significantly with angle raisers or cutting off if necessary and often padded undersoles to make it softer to walk (silicone and pads), sometimes lighter shoes (aluminum) were used if the case warrented.

Hope the horse is doing well by now.
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Old 12.07.2011, 15:30
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

I fear the worst. Will tell you when I know more- as Zorette has not come back to our field last couple of nights and we were out. I feel very sad that somebody groaned me for trying to help. Now I realise what a serious condition it is (I had no idea at the time of asking, as I've never owned horses or had any experience with horses) I can see why 1 person did so.
A Forum is not the place to ask for complex medical advice NOR serious veterinary advice. My neighbour asked me, so I asked you- and was hoping someone could help. Thanks you for all the suggestions then, and even for the groan- although it did seem to be unfair.
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Old 13.07.2011, 09:22
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

Quote:
I fear the worst. Will tell you when I know more- as Zorette has not come back to our field last couple of nights and we were out. I feel very sad that somebody groaned me for trying to help.
I am a bit more optimistic, taking her out of the pasture is indeed a very good thing in my view and should have been done. Lush pasture is indeed a trigger for founder and the diet should be remedied immediately as noted above. Also, she will be pained to walk and best to stable her, with daily walks on soft sand or turf. Walking in a field would indeed be difficult. Sorry that someone groaned you, I find that inappropriate under the circumstances, you were indeed asking for help/advise and were in not creating a difficult situation.
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Old 13.07.2011, 09:25
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

Quote:
I fear the worst. Will tell you when I know more- as Zorette has not come back to our field last couple of nights and we were out. I feel very sad that somebody groaned me for trying to help. Now I realise what a serious condition it is (I had no idea at the time of asking, as I've never owned horses or had any experience with horses) I can see why 1 person did so.
A Forum is not the place to ask for complex medical advice NOR serious veterinary advice. My neighbour asked me, so I asked you- and was hoping someone could help. Thanks you for all the suggestions then, and even for the groan- although it did seem to be unfair.
If it bothers you then write them a PM and ask why. A while back someone groaned my for sale thread and when I asked why it turned out they had accidentally clicked on their phone. They said sorry and removed their groan.
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Old 13.07.2011, 10:51
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Re: laminitis/fourbure in horse

Quote:
I fear the worst. Will tell you when I know more- as Zorette has not come back to our field last couple of nights and we were out. I feel very sad that somebody groaned me for trying to help. Now I realise what a serious condition it is (I had no idea at the time of asking, as I've never owned horses or had any experience with horses) I can see why 1 person did so.
A Forum is not the place to ask for complex medical advice NOR serious veterinary advice. My neighbour asked me, so I asked you- and was hoping someone could help. Thanks you for all the suggestions then, and even for the groan- although it did seem to be unfair.

So sorry - I had in fact tried to reply, but was not so proficient on my new iPad & then tried to reverse out. Must have left a groan but was completely by mistake.

As everyone else said this is major medical emergency for a horse...
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