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Old 12.07.2011, 15:35
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Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

My husband and I moved to Lausanne in May and were excited to travel by rail with our French Bulldog, Louis, to all the countries around Switzerland. Our first attempt was in Italy where we had booked 1st class tickets and were told we could buy Louis' ticket on the train. To our utter dismay, we boarded the train in Milan and were told "no dogs allowed". Extremely frustrating to say the least.
Now, we have a trip to Paris this Friday and really want to bring Louis with us. We researched ourselves this time (rather than taking the train personnel's word) and learned that Louis can join us as long as the other passengers allow him in the cabin and he needs to be muzzled. Does anyone have experience that the muzzle rule is enforced? Has anyone had their dog "disallowed" by other passengers? We will definitely bring the muzzle with us, but dread the thought of putting him through that. He's pretty charming so we're not too worried about other passengers.
Thanks in advance!
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Old 12.07.2011, 15:39
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

Based on observation (as I'm not a dog owner... yet), when I came back from Paris, there was a couple sitting ahead of us who had a dog with them. No muzzle on the dog. Their dog sat on the floor and was quiet the entire ride. Of course I'd still check and double check.
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Old 12.07.2011, 15:46
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

can't help , but I wish some of the human passengers on my last train journey had muzzles.
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Old 12.07.2011, 17:02
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

I'm afraid I can't help with the French train rules, but just wanted to repeat the obvious warning (especially for brachycephalic dogs):

Make sure that your dog has a basket muzzle, not a nylon one, and make sure that he/she can pant and drink through the muzzle. The French trains can quickly get very overheated; the nylon/closed type muzzles are for short term (i.e. minutes) use only, the dog can become dangerously overheated wearing one.

You likely know all that, so forgive me. It's just that 'muzzle safety' was on my mind, as I was at the Tierspital today; my appointment was postponed when an emergency came in, a staffie suffering from heat exhaustion. Poor dog had been wearing a nylon muzzle in this heat, and collapsed... hope the little guy recovers.
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Old 12.07.2011, 17:17
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

Thank you everyone! And to Meloncollie, yes, I'm a bit worried about about his breathing so if people tell me he'll be required to wear one throughout the trip, we will probably just stay home. Something we discovered recently that he loves is a coolcollar (whoever thought it up should be given an award). I had no idea it would be this warm in Lausanne!
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Old 12.07.2011, 17:31
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

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...and learned that Louis can join us as long as the other passengers allow him in the cabin...
Do consider someone asking would ruin your trip. Would you be open to someone pointing and saying "No way?" I can't imagine having this kind of converation without it getting er, emotional

[When it comes to their children, parents have no sense of humour...]
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Old 12.07.2011, 17:54
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

I am mentally preparing myself for the worst of the possibilities! People do have allergies to dogs and I would certainly understand. Dogs just seem to be everywhere here and in France, so I'm wondering how often these rules are used and enforced. Thanks again!
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Old 12.07.2011, 18:02
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

The train to Paris is operated by TGV so I think French rules would apply. I have travelled extensively throughout France with my little chap when we lived there and had no problems but he is a small dog. All dogs over a certain weight (not sure what weight) have to be muzzled. I would assume that a Bull dog would fall into that category, ie. would need a muzzle. That said, the French tend to have a more casual manner than the Swiss. I would take the trip and carry a muzzle on you just to be safe. I doubt you would be required to use it but if you are then at least you have it. Also I have always found that asking first, rather than presuming goes a long way with the French. I always used to ask my fellow passengers whether they minded my dog being present and they always said no problem. On occasions I didn't have the courtesy to excuse his presence I received a few snooty looks.

Another tip, ask the train manager which would be the best stop to let him off the train for a pee pee (some stops the train is stationary for a few minutes, I think Dijon) and the train manager should signal to you when it time to get doggy back on the train. They have always done this for me.
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Old 12.07.2011, 18:14
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

Also when you are in Paris if you ask whether your dog is allowed in a restaurant then the maitre'd will no doubt find you a nice table with extra room for doggy and bring him some scraps of beef and water. If you ignore the fact you have doggy with you then they tend to ignore doggy and dont give him the special treatment. Typically Parisian.
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Old 13.07.2011, 09:14
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

I'm trying to imagine a muzzle on a French Bulldog - not sure if it makes me laugh or cry .

I mean, what's it going to do? Slobber you to death?
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Old 13.07.2011, 09:31
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

I wish that all local commuters would have to wear a face mask when riding the metro or RER in Paris; the stench of garlic and bad breath early in the morning when you're packed in all cozy and sweaty is enough to make you want to barf.
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Old 13.07.2011, 09:42
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

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My husband and I moved to Lausanne in May and were excited to travel by rail with our French Bulldog, Louis, to all the countries around Switzerland. Our first attempt was in Italy where we had booked 1st class tickets and were told we could buy Louis' ticket on the train. To our utter dismay, we boarded the train in Milan and were told "no dogs allowed". Extremely frustrating to say the least.
Now, we have a trip to Paris this Friday and really want to bring Louis with us. We researched ourselves this time (rather than taking the train personnel's word) and learned that Louis can join us as long as the other passengers allow him in the cabin and he needs to be muzzled. Does anyone have experience that the muzzle rule is enforced? Has anyone had their dog "disallowed" by other passengers? We will definitely bring the muzzle with us, but dread the thought of putting him through that. He's pretty charming so we're not too worried about other passengers.
Thanks in advance!
My understanding of muzzle rules is that the dog has to be a 'dangerous' breed or has bitten someone or attacked another dog unprovoked.

And how the heck do you put a muzzle on a push-nosed dog like a Frenchie? They're adorable lap dogs. Everyone loves Frenchies (except when they poot). And Frenchies aren't on any list of 'dangerous' breeds. And the list varies by Canton.

SBB has info in English. http://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-and...-for-dogs.html There is no mention of a muzzling requirement there.

Here is a link to some official information about dog ownership requirements: http://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/home/...gepri/pet.html

I think maybe melloncollie might know more abut muzzling requirements. But I'm pretty sure the animal has to have a 'dangerous' reputation. It cannot be arbitrarily applied... and most certainly it makes ZERO sense to muzzle a French Bulldog.

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Based on observation (as I'm not a dog owner... yet), when I came back from Paris, there was a couple sitting ahead of us who had a dog with them. No muzzle on the dog. Their dog sat on the floor and was quiet the entire ride. Of course I'd still check and double check.
As far as I'm concerned, I paid for a 1/2 fare ticket. My dog can sit on the seat and look out the window. (and I can hear the Swiss gasping and pearl clutching)
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Old 13.07.2011, 11:47
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

Thank you KeinFranzösisch for the good information on Pets in Switzerland. You're right - Frenchies barely even have a snout so, of course, the muzzle has to be special ordered and is expensive. The train is TGV Lyria and this link (http://www.tgv-lyria.com/main/FCK/Fi...rting/pets.asp) shows the French rule is: "Before taking your seat, please ensure that the other passengers do not object to the presence of your pet. You must also ensure that your dog is muzzled and on a lead."
My vet said the rule is not enforced in France but there is one that is enforced in Italy (and many trains in Italy don't allow dogs at all). I hope this helps someone else if they're planning a trip with Fido.
After all of this, we're having some trouble finding a hotel with availability that will allow him, so he's going to stay with our vet for the weekend. So much for dog-friendly Europe!
Thanks again everyone!
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Old 13.07.2011, 11:59
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

KF, the OP is talking about the French train system, not the Swiss. From a quick google (as I have never taken my mutts on the trains in France), it seems that dogs may indeed be required to be muzzled on French trains. See the following:

http://www.itransports.fr/en/reseau/...s-voyages-sncf

Caveat: my googling en français leaves a lot to be desired...

But you are quite correct re: the Swiss trains and dogs - in Switzerland it is only those dogs on the various BSL lists who face restrictions.

(Wasn't there a thread some time ago where someone asked whether federal or cantonal rules applied to SBB trains? I can't remember how that discussion ended - but IIRC it brought up an interesting point, as the BSL restrictions are cantonal, not federal. But I digress... In any event, if one owns a dog listed in any canton, best to be prepared if you travel through that canton. )

And an FYI for any owner of a brachycephalic dog: If you think you might at some point be required to muzzle your dog, please have one properly fitted; if necessary get your vet to help. A ill-fitting muzzle is a danger to any dog, but even more so to the short-nosed breeds. Friends who own pugs have had to have muzzles custom made to ensure the proper fit.
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Old 13.07.2011, 12:46
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

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The train to Paris is operated by TGV so I think French rules would apply. I have travelled extensively throughout France with my little chap when we lived there and had no problems but he is a small dog. All dogs over a certain weight (not sure what weight) have to be muzzled. I would assume that a Bull dog would fall into that category, ie. would need a muzzle. That said, the French tend to have a more casual manner than the Swiss. I would take the trip and carry a muzzle on you just to be safe. I doubt you would be required to use it but if you are then at least you have it. Also I have always found that asking first, rather than presuming goes a long way with the French. I always used to ask my fellow passengers whether they minded my dog being present and they always said no problem. ......
This site implies that dogs under 6kg should be in a travel container
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To France: Dogs can be taken on all French trains. Small dogs (under 6Kg) placed in containers not exceeding 45cm x 30cm x 25cm pay no more than 5.10 euros per journey. Larger dogs on leads pay half the 2nd class full fare (even travelling in 1st class). You can buy tickets for your pet at the ticket office.
The Man in Seat 61

They also suggest dressing your dog as a guide dog and pretending to be blind
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Old 13.07.2011, 13:01
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Re: Muzzel Rule Enforced on Train to Paris?

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The train is TGV Lyria and this link (http://www.tgv-lyria.com/main/FCK/Fi...rting/pets.asp) shows the French rule is: "Before taking your seat, please ensure that the other passengers do not object to the presence of your pet. You must also ensure that your dog is muzzled and on a lead."

Wow that is a real shame. I really wish some of the European kennel clubs would have been and/or get more involved to influence the extreme policies regarding dogs.
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