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Old 19.12.2011, 15:22
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Muzzle for Rottweiller

Can someone tell me if a muzzle is required (for the dog) when walking a rottweiler in public in Kantons Zurich and St. Gallan?

While we were out walking in the snow near Flumserberg yesterday, my 5 year old son got flattened by a 50kg rottweiler after he managed to get free from his owner. The dog had no muzzle on him. Thankfully the dog was only interested in licking my sons face.

Thanks
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Old 19.12.2011, 16:01
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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Can someone tell me if a muzzle is required (for the dog) when walking a rottweiler in public in Kantons Zurich and St. Gallan?

While we were out walking in the snow near Flumserberg yesterday, my 5 year old son got flattened by a 50kg rottweiler after he managed to get free from his owner. The dog had no muzzle on him. Thankfully the dog was only interested in licking my sons face.

Thanks
Dont know about SG but in Kanton Zurich, rotties are not classified under List 2 (the dangerous/banned breeds list which must be registered, leashed and muzzled in public at all times if you are already in possession of one before the laws came into effect on 1st Jan 2010) but List 1 along with all other big dogs.

Muzzling them is not mandatory but the owners do have an obligation to undergo training with the dogs. Check out the laws for Kanton ZRH here:

http://www.tierimrecht.org/de/tiersc...ht/zuerich.php

I hope you had a firm word with the owner about keeping his dog under control and not jump on a child like that.
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Old 19.12.2011, 16:43
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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Can someone tell me if a muzzle is required (for the dog) when walking a rottweiler in public in Kantons Zurich and St. Gallan?

While we were out walking in the snow near Flumserberg yesterday, my 5 year old son got flattened by a 50kg rottweiler after he managed to get free from his owner. The dog had no muzzle on him. Thankfully the dog was only interested in licking my sons face.

Thanks
Was the dog on a leash? When you say "flattened" I picture your son on his back in the snow with the dog standing on his chest licking his face. I imagine though that's not actually what happened. Did the owner have voice control?

What was it that your son did to get the dog's attention? Did you have a learning lesson about behaviour around dogs? Did anyone apologize for inappropriate actions?

Why would you want a dog in a muzzle? A muzzle doesn't prevent jumping either.

How did you handle this? I fear you're stereotyping the breed, which is unfair. Did you and your son have a good laugh at being flattened and licked by a happy, lovable Rottie?

Did you make a new friend?
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Old 19.12.2011, 17:13
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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Did you and your son have a good laugh at being flattened and licked by a happy, lovable Rottie?
I think you'll find that five year olds have a different sense of humour to adults.

Our eldest was about four when he got bowled over by a large dog in the same manner. We tried to make him laugh it off. It didn't work. He was terrified of dogs for a good couple of years afterwards depsite us trying to make him like them.

When we thought he was nearly over it, a dog jumped out from behind the steps at a station here and bit his hand.

It's not always the kid's fault.
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Old 19.12.2011, 19:59
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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Was the dog on a leash? When you say "flattened" I picture your son on his back in the snow with the dog standing on his chest licking his face. I imagine though that's not actually what happened. Did the owner have voice control?

What was it that your son did to get the dog's attention? Did you have a learning lesson about behaviour around dogs? Did anyone apologize for inappropriate actions?

Why would you want a dog in a muzzle? A muzzle doesn't prevent jumping either.

How did you handle this? I fear you're stereotyping the breed, which is unfair. Did you and your son have a good laugh at being flattened and licked by a happy, lovable Rottie?

Did you make a new friend?
perhaps she/he should have apologized to the dog owner AND the dog itself?
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Old 19.12.2011, 21:48
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

Does anybody know if I need a muzzle for my yorshire terrier who will be travelling with me to Vienna?

Last edited by Bellabuu; 19.12.2011 at 22:24. Reason: It's posted in this link http://www.vienna.cc/e/etier.htm
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Old 19.12.2011, 21:57
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

Our dog definitely needs a muzzle for his own protection - he might suffocate when swallowing a Chihuahua..
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Old 19.12.2011, 22:09
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

A dog does not need a muzzle - but a responsible owner.
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Old 19.12.2011, 22:27
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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A dog does not need a muzzle - but a responsible owner.
And some owner need a muzzle...
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Old 19.12.2011, 22:35
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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Can someone tell me if a muzzle is required (for the dog) when walking a rottweiler in public in Kantons Zurich and St. Gallan?

While we were out walking in the snow near Flumserberg yesterday, my 5 year old son got flattened by a 50kg rottweiler after he managed to get free from his owner. The dog had no muzzle on him. Thankfully the dog was only interested in licking my sons face.

Thanks
Paging GG...
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Old 19.12.2011, 23:11
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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Does anybody know if I need a muzzle for my yorshire terrier who will be travelling with me to Vienna?
Yes, any dog in Austria.
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Old 20.12.2011, 00:23
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

I realize that this is a highly emotive subject, but emotion isn't particualrly helpful here. Let's look instead at the law.

Rottweilers are not on the restricted list in canton ZH, nor does SG have any kind of BSL. So in these cantons, unless in in the areas falling under the general restriction or an area otherwise signed, a rottie may run off lead and unmuzzled just as a poodle or chihuahua or Barry the brandy-bearing St Bernard may. As long as the dog is not bothering you, he may run free and play.

Now, that does not give a dog's owner carte blanche to abdicate responsibility. No, all dogs, of any breed, must be kept under the owner's control. Under control can mean voice control, as long as the dog reliably responds to command. A dog who is not yet reliable in his recall should be re-leashed when approaching others. An owner should not allow a dog to bother another person or animal. So the owner was at fault for not keeping his dog under better control, but simply that he had the dog off lead or unmuzzled was not against the law.

From what you describe, it does seem like the dog was a friendly one. As no harm was done, the most efficient way of handling this would be a quick 'Please keep your dog at your side, we wish to be left alone.' Note I said efficient. One catches more flies with honey than vinegar; if your goal is to resolve a situation, a quick polite word usually does the trick - where making threats and shouting often doesn't.

And please note that I said the owner was at fault - not the dog.


A summary of the law in St Gallen:
http://www.tierimrecht.org/de/tiersc...t/stgallen.php

And in Zürich:
http://www.tierimrecht.org/de/tiersc...ht/zuerich.php

FYI: Rotties face restrictions in the following cantons:

BS, BL,FR, GE,SH, SO, TG, TI, VD, VS.

--

OK - allow me a bit of emotion for a moment:

BSL is a meaningless sop to a public blinded by fear-mongering. Banning or restricting specific breeds does nothing at all to promote safety - because breed is not a predictor of behavior. No science, no experts, no hard facts were used to draw up those lists - they were hastily compiled based on - well, nothing but prejudice.

Education - of dog owners, of their dogs, and yes, of the general public, is the best way to promote safety.

All dogs - of any breed - need to be trained, socialized, and controlled appropriate to the situation, at all times. A dog owner must respect the rights of others, must take appropriate measure to ensure that his dog does not bother others. But non-dog owners also need to understand that cantonal law not only allows a well-trained dog to run offlead in many parts of Switzerland, but also that the federal law specifically encourages dog owners to do so.

We all have to share the same crowded spaces, so in the words of Mr King: 'Cant we all just get along?'

Last edited by meloncollie; 20.12.2011 at 00:36.
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Old 20.12.2011, 00:30
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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I realize that this is a highly emotive subject, but emotion isn't particualrly helpful here. Let's look instead at the law.

Rottweilers are not on the restricted list in canton ZH, nor does SG have any kind of BSL. So in these cantons, unless in an area otherwise signed that all dogs must be on lead, a rottie may run off lead and unmuzzled just as a poodle or chihuahua or Barry the brandy-bearing St Bernard may. As long as the dog is not bothering you, he may run free and play.

Now, that does not give a dog's owner carte blanche to abdicate responsibility. No, any dog of any breed must be kept under the owner's control. Under control can mean voice control, as long as the dog reliably responds to command. An owner should not allow a dog to bother another person or animal. So the owner was at fault for not keeping his dog under better control, but simply that he had the dog off lead or unmuzzled was not against the law.

From what you describe, it does seem like the dog was a friendly one. As no harm was done, the most efficient way of handling this would be a quick 'Please keep your dog at your side, we wish to be left alone.' Note I said efficient. One catches more flies with honey than vinegar; if your goal is to resolve a situation, a quick polite word usually does the trick - where making threats and shouting often doesn't.

And please note that I said the owner was at fault - not the dog.


A summary of the law in St Gallen:
http://www.tierimrecht.org/de/tiersc...t/stgallen.php

And in Zürich:
http://www.tierimrecht.org/de/tiersc...ht/zuerich.php

FYI: Rotties face restrictions in the following cantons:

BS, BL,FR, GE,SH, SO, TG, TI, VD, VS.

--

OK - allow me a bit of emotion for a moment:

BSL is a meaningless sop to a public blinded by fear-mongering. Banning or restricting specific breeds does nothing at all to promote safety - because breed is not a predictor of behavior. No science, no experts, no hard facts were used to draw up those lists - they were hastily compiled based on - well, nothing but prejudice.

Education - of dog owners, of their dogs, and yes, of the general public, is the best way to promote safety.

All dogs - of any breed - need to be trained, socialized, and controlled appropriate to the situation, at all times. A dog owner must respect the rights of others, must take appropriate measure to ensure that his dog does not bother others. But non-dog owners also need to understand that the (federal) law not only allows but also specifically encourages a well-trained dog to run free in many parts of Switzerland.

We all have to share the same crowded spaces, so in the words of Mr King: 'Cant we all just get along?'
you are making a major mistake here: the breed may not be a predictor of behavior, but it is a pretty good predictor of the possible damage and harm, have you considered this?

and speaking of emotion, please tell us why would one want so desperately to cohabit a small apartment or house with a 50kg canine that was bred for tacking wolves, hearding sheep and cattle and attacking trespassers in farmland, despite all the trouble with neighbors, kids, cars, the filth? i really, sincerely want to understand you

Last edited by F16; 20.12.2011 at 00:33. Reason: was too short
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Old 20.12.2011, 00:30
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

http://www.tierimrecht.org/de/tiersc...echt/index.php
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Old 20.12.2011, 02:21
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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you are making a major mistake here: the breed may not be a predictor of behavior, but it is a pretty good predictor of the possible damage and harm, have you considered this?

and speaking of emotion, please tell us why would one want so desperately to cohabit a small apartment or house with a 50kg canine that was bred for tacking wolves, hearding sheep and cattle and attacking trespassers in farmland, despite all the trouble with neighbors, kids, cars, the filth? i really, sincerely want to understand you
Man has domesticated dogs of all breeds for many reasons for thousands of years. Among those reasons, and I think applicable to most pet dogs these days, is companionship. Dogs also enjoy being with people and, managed properly, can become a valued family member.

I think humans have a higher risk of unpredictable and violent behaviour than dogs; how many incidences of violent crime and domestic abuse are committed vs incidents of dog maulings, for example?

A rottie is not my idea of the perfect breed to own but I can see that they are just as respectable as any other.

As to your comment about filth, it's the owners who are responsible for the hygiene of the dog. A filthy dog is usually down to the neglect of an owner.
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Old 20.12.2011, 02:26
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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you are making a major mistake here: the breed may not be a predictor of behavior, but it is a pretty good predictor of the possible damage and harm, have you considered this?

and speaking of emotion, please tell us why would one want so desperately to cohabit a small apartment or house with a 50kg canine that was bred for tacking wolves, hearding sheep and cattle and attacking trespassers in farmland, despite all the trouble with neighbors, kids, cars, the filth? i really, sincerely want to understand you
Many cases, a 50kg dog is "more" suited to apartment living than many of the smaller dogs who simply are mighty little bundles of energy. Many of the larger breeds become fair content (after they're about 2yrs old) to simply slouch around when not out for specific exercise - provided they do get that exercise - unlike some of the terrier and more dedicated herding groups which can become destructive if not entertained.


What "filth" are you talking about here? Dogs are only filthy if you allow them to be so through neglect.


Going back to the top of what I quoted though:
While it may be true enough that a single bite from a large dog has a greater chance for doing (serious) damage than a single bite from a small one, I've met plenty of nasty small dogs who were capable of inflicting some nasty wounds themselves. Top that off with how many people treat small dogs like babies instead of like dogs, who don't socialize them properly AND how many people somehow fail to treat small dogs with the same respect as large (reaching in to pet without asking first, and getting a nip - failing to pay attention to the signal given by the "cute little" growl, and getting bitten)... Little ones can be savage lil beasties as well - if they and their owner are not trained properly.

Little or big, dogs are dogs. Biting is unacceptable and running to jump on a stranger (uninvited) is not acceptable behavior either.
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Old 20.12.2011, 09:56
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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you are making a major mistake here: the breed may not be a predictor of behavior, but it is a pretty good predictor of the possible damage and harm, have you considered this?

and speaking of emotion, please tell us why would one want so desperately to cohabit a small apartment or house with a 50kg canine that was bred for tacking wolves, hearding sheep and cattle and attacking trespassers in farmland, despite all the trouble with neighbors, kids, cars, the filth? i really, sincerely want to understand you
I'll bite.

Why? Because in return for food, shelter and some warmth, the canine that you are talking about, will provide the most unwavering loyalty and unconditional love. No judgment whether you are rich or poor, fat or thin, most popular person in the office or the villain, they are just happy to see you after a long hard day at work. They have not been tagged "man's best friend" for nothing.

Dogs have been domesticated by men for the longest time. With the exception of miserable old gits and anti dog squads, a well trained dog will not be in trouble with anyone.

To address your point of herding sheep etc, there has also been a long standing working relationship between dogs and humans, which further cements our symbiotic relationship. From rescue dogs to assistance dogs, from those brave war dogs to cadaver dogs, our best friends have made themselves indispensable.

In many ways, we have become as dependent on them as they are on us.

As for your point regarding the breed being pretty good predictor of the possible damage and harm - thats simply ignorance. Not in a bad way but its very common that many non-dog owners tend not to look past the menacing look/ that some of the more powerful breeds give off.

I always believe that its the "deed, not the breed". In this case, whilst the rottweiler didnt harm the OP's child, we as dog owners need to exercise caution whilst walking our dogs, especially those with a powerful breed. We sometimes take for granted that our furballs are harmless because we know they are.

Not everyone who is socialised with dogs do. In this crowded city where stories of dog attacks tend to spark panic, judgment and tunnel vision, its our duty as owners to ensure that we try to keep the peace.
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Old 20.12.2011, 10:10
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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A rottie is not my idea of the perfect breed to own but I can see that they are just as respectable as any other.
Even apparently docile breeds can show undesirable traits if not looked after:

When we were kids, my mum bought a giant Old English sheepdog from someone that had kept it in a 10ft by 10ft yard.

It was a snarling, angry beast that snapped the whole time.

However, after a lot of love and training, it became a lovely, friendly, giant companion and family pet to myself and my siblings.
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Old 20.12.2011, 10:13
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

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Even apparently docile breeds can show undesirable traits if not looked after:

When we were kids, my mum bought a giant Old English sheepdog from someone that had kept it in a 10ft by 10ft yard.

It was a snarling, angry beast that snapped the whole time.

However, after a lot of love and training, it became a lovely, friendly, giant companion and family pet to myself and my siblings.
It wasn't from a safety issue - I'm sure rotties aren't any more dangerous than any other breeds. My dream dog is a greyhound and when I hang up my career boots for good, I'm gonna get me one. They are common rescue dogs, too, and our family has always been a sucker for rescue dogs...
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Old 20.12.2011, 10:28
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Re: Muzzle for Rottweiller

I only know that if a Rottweiler had come running up to me ready to jump, I wouldn't be here right now. I'd be dead from a heart attack.
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