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Old 07.01.2012, 11:58
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Second dog. Should we or should we not?

So 2 years ago we got a dog from a shelter. Now we are thinking of adding another 3 month old puppy from the same shelter to our family.

The original dog, Whiskey, is not dominant at all and he loves everybody. We socialise him with other dogs as well and we never have any problems. We also have 3 cats and in order of dominance they are above him!

So whats your experience in adding a new dog to an established pet family? Obviously in the beginning we will keep them apart and wont leave them alone. The other dog is a cross between a Berger Beauceron and something unknown so we dont know what the final size will be.


Also something extra. Does anybody know the price for a pure breed doberman or something similar from a reputable breeder? Just for imformative purposes. I much prefer to get a rescue but im curious.
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Old 07.01.2012, 12:32
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

Go for it!! We recently got Herbie when he was 11 weeks. Fortunately he has fitted in perfectly with Jessie our 5 year old. He is very jealous when I cuddle Jessie but they have formed a real team now and clearly love each other to bits. Plus they play and run together much more than a single dog would. They are just good for each other
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Old 07.01.2012, 12:36
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

Adding a puppy to the mix is usually easier then an older dog. Do you know if it is possible to have the pup over for a weekend, like a trial?
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Old 07.01.2012, 12:46
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

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Adding a puppy to the mix is usually easier then an older dog. Do you know if it is possible to have the pup over for a weekend, like a trial?
Excellent suggestion. Dogs that otherwise are great to be around can often behave differently when sensing a challenge to their place in the family. We have Whippets and can tell you it's not always an easy transition bringing a new dog into the house

A trial visit of a couple of days would give you a much better idea on how things would work.

Good luck, let us know how it goes
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Old 07.01.2012, 13:00
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Were also considering another family member to join our dog and two cats. I'm looking forward to additional responses from those who have done the same.
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Old 07.01.2012, 18:19
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

As your dog is male and not dominant - I would go for it.

However if you had a bitch I would not get another bitch but a male.

I have had most combinations and dog & dog seem to decide who is "top dog" then get on with it. With a bitch as the only dog bringing a male pup in is not a problem as they seem to be "mum" and the bitch takes the position of the boss.

Bringing another bitch in if you already have a bitch seems to a recipe for trouble

Last edited by smackerjack; 07.01.2012 at 18:45. Reason: making paragraph clearer
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Old 07.01.2012, 18:24
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

I added a bitch puppy to my 3year old male dog. Best thing I ever did.

Are you getting the opposite sex?
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Old 07.01.2012, 21:09
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

Thanks for the replies I spoke to the shelter (or rather a friend did as my french are non existent) and they told us that the puppies have some skin rush and the medication course will finish end of February so we cant get them until then. When we went to see them they told us that the vet was going to come a few days later and that they were going to be ok then). Obviously the vet had other ideas

As people suggested here, i did ask if we can have the puppy for a couple of days to see how he gets on with our mutt. Unfortunately its not possible, but they said that Whiskey is more than welcome to come for a couple of hours to play with them.

So far the only thing we can do is reserve him and wait until he is ok.


@kevlegs: We have a male and we are (maybe) getting another male . Can you tell me the reactions of your dog and how did you introduce them?
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Old 14.01.2012, 19:17
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

OK update:

Unfortunately the dog we wanted is not available anymore. There is another one interesting though and here are the particulars:

-Its female but will be sterilized/neutered/whatever is called.
-Its a pretty stubborn character and needs training. No problem with that.
-It cannot be left alone they said but due to work we would have to leave her alone 3-4 hours per day.
-She is going to be around 35kgs when fully grown
-We live in a flat
-Id rather not come home to cat pieces, although they told us that she is fine with cats


Thoughts?
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Old 14.01.2012, 21:24
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

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OK update:

Unfortunately the dog we wanted is not available anymore. There is another one interesting though and here are the particulars:

-Its female but will be sterilized/neutered/whatever is called.
-Its a pretty stubborn character and needs training. No problem with that.
-It cannot be left alone they said but due to work we would have to leave her alone 3-4 hours per day.
-She is going to be around 35kgs when fully grown
-We live in a flat
-Id rather not come home to cat pieces, although they told us that she is fine with cats


Thoughts?
Adding a dog to your family - wether your first, second, or umpteenth - is first a matter of the heart. When you look at the dog, when you interact with her, what does your heart say?

That's test number one.

Then you have to engage the common sense side of your brain.

The question of not being able to be left alone stands out to me.

Were I back in the US in my soundproof single family home situated well away from neighbors, I'd be willing to work on this one. With time, patience, consistency, a sense of humor and a good dose of understanding, separation anxiety can be mitigated in many dogs - I have successfully done so with several. HOWEVER you are in Switzerland, where neighborhood tolerance levels are somewhat different, and neighborhood harmony must be taken into account. For the dog's sake as well as yours, you need to research this thoroughly.

What happens when the dog is left alone? Barking, destruction, incontinence? What can you put up with and what can your neighbors tolerate? Do you have the resources - finances and time - to invest in solving the behavioral problem? Would you be able to get professional help if necessary? And the big question - what if your neighbor's tolerance limits are breached and they force you to make changes? You need to think of the 'what ifs'.

Think about how you would approach SA rehab, and discuss with the rescue what you can - and cannot - do. And ask them if they think this dog is right for your family.

If you think you can work with the SA, then I'd counsel taking time off work when the dog arrives, or working from home, or balancing hours between you and your partner so that the dog is not left alone in the beginning. You'll need to give yourself time to work with her. Sometimes it only takes weeks, but sometimes months, sometimes longer to resolve SA issues.

ETA: You could also think about getting a dog sitter in for the time you'd need to be away.

Of lesser concern is the 'stubborn character' issue. While I'm sure you can handle that, I'd want to make sure that Whisky can as well. It's one thing to play with certain personality types while out and about, but living together is another thing altogether. I'd probably set up several meetings and play sessions between the two to assess compatibility - and ask the rescue to make an assessment as well. Specifically pay attention to resource guarding situations, and keep a sharp eye on Whisky's body language just before, during, and after the sessions.

Being good with cats is a good start - but you want to make sure that she is good with your particular cats, - and they with her. And you'll want to understand how the presence of the cats might affect SA. A trial meeting with the cats might be a good idea.

Exciting times! Wishing you, Whisky, the cats - and the potential new family member - all the very best!

Last edited by meloncollie; 14.01.2012 at 21:38.
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Old 14.01.2012, 21:44
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

Thanks for your reply. You make excellent points. At the shelter, they said she cant be left alone meaning she will get bored and tear the place apart. Not a problem since when we are away, the dog and the cats are confined in one empty room which only has the litter trays and food bowls. Cats have places to hide there so in case it gets too much they will be fine.

Im worried about what will happen when we are away. Whiskey never barks at home but you dont know what will happen when two dogs meet.

We want to be absolutely sure before we commit, thats why im asking all these questions. So far i had dogs but they were in the yard. If we had a garden then we would take her immediately but we dont so....

As im writing this, Whiskey is sleeping with his head on my lap and one cat on his feet. Its peaceful and i like it. Getting another dog though may actually get me off my butt and away from the computer. That will be a nice change!

PS: What's SA?
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Old 14.01.2012, 21:58
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

I'ma let Ms. MC post her two cents 'cause I'll probably be on the same page with her.

As far as getting a purebred puppy from a reputable breeder, I don't know about Swiss breeders, but when I've talked to breeders elsewhere in Europe it averages around 1500 Euro.

Note that Dobermans tend to be on the banned breed lists though. If you like the style and look of the breed, check out the German Pinscher, which is a little smaller, and not banned.
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Old 14.01.2012, 22:34
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

Thanks for that

Dobermans are not in the banned list in Geneva but you cant have them with cropped tail and pointy ears. So a doberman is out. But thanks for the suggestion for that breed i didnt know it existed
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Old 14.01.2012, 22:41
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

Ooooh, looking at your old thread, your Whiskey is the twin of my little puppy I just got before Xmas - even the chocolate colour is the same. I'm loving having a dog and he's pretty well behaved and clever.
I'm glad to hear that an Appenzeller can get on well with other dogs - mine seems quite worriedabout other dogs and barks at some of them to tell them to go away (his stance is defensive). We're doing all the puppy class/walks with friends other dogs etc.so hopefully that'll help.
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Old 15.01.2012, 11:09
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

A couple of additional thoughts on separation anxiety (SA), which is the term most often used for behavior problems caused by fear/nervousness/discomfort when left alone:

Ask the rescue for more information on how they know she becomes destructive when left alone - was this information from the previous owners? From their observation while she has been in their care?

Bear in mind that formers owners are not always completely truthful - or rather, their version of the truth may differ from others' interpretations. I've sometimes seen a tendency to exaggerate, probably as a way to lessen a guilty conscience over abandoning the dog. And most inportant, even if the former owners are being wholly truthful what happened in their home may not happen in yours - so much depends on the character of the owners, the atmosphere created in the home, and the physical environment. In your home, under a more appropriate day to day regime, the SA may not manifest itself. Maybe.

If the SA has been seen while in kennels only, I'd be far less concerned - as many dogs display atypical behavior in kennels. Kennels are a very stressful environment for many dogs. Mine, who have never shown any SA at all, would go stark raving bonkers in a kennel environment - the stress would cause them to regress and display truly bizarre behaviors. So if this is the case it's quite possible that the SA would be less of a problem once the dog is in a safer, more stable, calmer environment. Maybe.

Or, if the SA was noticed in the dog's former home but has not been apparent in kennels, it's possible that the presence of other dogs is a help - which would bode very well for your home assuming that this dog and Whisky get along. It may be that living with another dog in the home would give this girl the security she needs when left alone. Maybe.

Many dogs will behave atypically in kennels due to the stress , even to the point of being shut-down. - Sometimes it's only after a time in the new home, once they feel secure and comfortable, that their true characters emerge. All dog owners need to be aware of this, and be prepared to be flexible, patient, and understanding.

In the dog's kennel it's unlikely that there would be much to destroy, and kenneled dogs are left without human interaction for long periods - ask the rescue what behavior they have observed while in the kennel. If there is no destruction, you could set up a safe space where she could be left when you go out, where there are things to keep her occupied but not much to damage while you work on the SA issues.

The issue for me wouldn't be working with SA - as mentioned, with many dogs SA can either be overcome or managed ifyou are willing and able to invest the time. Rather, the concern would be neighbors and Nachbarrecht: Is your living situation here in Switzerland such that you could - or would be allowed to - give the dog what is necessary to help her overcome her SA?

If there isn't barking when left I'd be inclined to go for it - it's usually noise that sparks most neighborhood complaints. (Of course, I'd double check my insurance policy re: doggie damage, just in case.)

The primary reason I would urge you to find out more is that a failed rehoming could hurt this poor dog's chances even farther.

But if you think you can indeed give the dog what she needs and are committed to doing so, if you think Whisky and the cats will be happy sharing their home, if you think this dog would be happy living with them, and provided the home environment is appropriate - then do look into this farther. Given my experiences working with SA dogs, I'd be tempted to go for it - but in the right circumstances, with my eyes wide open, and with the 'what if's' answered.

----

BTW, a very good little booklet dealing with separation anxiety issues is 'I'll Be Home Soon' by Patricia McConnell:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ill-Be-Home-...6616874&sr=1-1

Patricia McConnell also has several articles on SA on her website, such as:

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/hel...n-anxiety.html


Good luck with your decision - and paws crossed for you all.

Last edited by meloncollie; 16.01.2012 at 13:04.
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Old 15.01.2012, 18:58
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

I hear there's a 3 year old Yorkie in need of a loving home....
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Old 15.01.2012, 22:13
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

The dog we are thinking about is a 3 month old puppy. It was found abandoned somewhere. I dont know any more details about that.

It will be a big dog. She is the size of Whiskey now!

When i saw her it was typical puppy behavior. Whiskey was the same when we got him. I think the only difference is that she will need more exercise than him.

Anyway we will know on Friday. We are the second in line to get her so if the people above us change their minds then she is ours.

As for this
Quote:
a failed rehoming could hurt this poor dog's chances even farther.
you are right. If we do get her though we will be absolutely sure we can handle her and we are not going to just give her away after the first problem. Its a living thing not a toy
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Old 16.01.2012, 01:52
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

Hopefully at 3 months the pup has not been traumatised too much. However, please take into account the work needed for a pup especially one so young. They can't be left alone for long at first. I remember getting my Bella at 8 weeks and for the first2 weeks or so she needed to be let out every two hours and she needed someone around to engage with her as she destroyed our plaster walls.

I don't want to put you off as it is great that you want to rehome a young doG, just want to make you aware of the time they need. I underestimated that when I first got Bella.
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Old 16.01.2012, 12:55
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

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Hopefully at 3 months the pup has not been traumatised too much. However, please take into account the work needed for a pup especially one so young. They can't be left alone for long at first. I remember getting my Bella at 8 weeks and for the first2 weeks or so she needed to be let out every two hours and she needed someone around to engage with her as she destroyed our plaster walls.

I don't want to put you off as it is great that you want to rehome a young doG, just want to make you aware of the time they need. I underestimated that when I first got Bella.
Im not worried about that. Whiskey was also 3 months old when we got him so i know all about it. I wasnt very happy taking him for a walk in the freezing cold for an hour and him deciding to do his business as soon as we got home!
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Old 16.01.2012, 13:14
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Re: Second dog. Should we or should we not?

If the pup is only three months old, I'd be less concerned about SA rehab - but would still want to research the destruction/SA issue carefully.

I'd want to question the rescue about whether they think this is something other than standard puppy hijinks. (You should have seen some of the 'performance art' that even my perfect Saint Swimbo created as a pup... ) Destruction is what many puppies do naturally - until taught otherwise. The question is, will your being away from home affect your ability to teach her the necessary 'otherwise'?

However, true SA can manifest itself at any age, especially if the pup was abandoned too young to leave her mother, was traumatized by what happened to her. So best to go in with eyes open and a training/rehab plan in place.

Even when rehoming a pup without any issues, I would have qualms about leaving any 3 month old puppy alone for the time you describe. Not only for comfort and bonding reasons, but also there are the practicalities of house training to think about - being alone too long could slow down house training, allow her to develop habits that may become hard to break. Little bladders need emptying often, as you know. Also, there is the issue of monitoring her interaction with Whisky and the cats - at three months she still needs to be taught what is and is not acceptible. Again, being left too long could allow her to develop behaviors that would be better nipped in the bud.

Bottom line, so much of training a young dog relies on timing - being on the spot to address behaviors as they arise. Wearing my rescue hat: I'd want to hear how a potential adopter to planned address these concerns.

Could you find a sitter to cover some of that time, at least for the next few months?

(Creative solutions can often be found to make many different set-ups work to meet individual needs, provided the commitment is there - and clearly you've done a good job with Whisky. )


Have you discussed your schedule and your training plans with the rescue? What do they think?

Paws crossed that it all works out for you...

Last edited by meloncollie; 16.01.2012 at 15:15.
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