Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Pet corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 24.02.2012, 15:50
TexasLynette's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 364
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 421 Times in 183 Posts
TexasLynette has an excellent reputationTexasLynette has an excellent reputationTexasLynette has an excellent reputationTexasLynette has an excellent reputation
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

I remember that I was seriously questioning my will to adopt a cat from a shelter when I first started my search for a cat...

I ended up getting a cat from this shelter:

http://www.katzenheimrefugium.ch/

It's in Schwamendingen. At that time (12 years ago) they were being concerned about the animal's well being and at the same time very reasonable about their conditions. I got my cat as an indoor cat even if we lived on the ground floor. Meanwhile she's a passionate indoor/outdoor cat with no kitty door. When the door is unlocked, she just jumps up and holds on to the handle opening the door. (the dog then closes it again, but that's another story...)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 24.02.2012, 17:31
sarel's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 358
Groaned at 12 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 293 Times in 160 Posts
sarel has an excellent reputationsarel has an excellent reputationsarel has an excellent reputationsarel has an excellent reputation
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Quote:
View Post
What isn't subjective is this: indoor cats live much longer lives than their outdoor counterparts, and have a significantly lower risk of injury or illness.
That's what I thought after loosing two cats to the SBB.
So after that I had two brothers as indoor cats. One day I came home from work, I found one of them dead on the floor, no injuries or illnesses, he was just 1 1/2 years old! I was always very careful with things lying around that didn't belong in to cat paws but still, something dreadful happened...
We didn't get an autopsy done but got his brother checked for any illnesses. Nothing to be found and he is still up and going and happy with his new little sister. But now I have this picture of walking through the door and finding one of them dead on the floor... not very nice...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank sarel for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 24.02.2012, 17:37
gata's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Geneva
Posts: 3,887
Groaned at 67 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 3,629 Times in 1,702 Posts
gata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

I have three cats. Two of them where one year old when i got them and they were outside cats. Both have adapted well not going out at all. But they still love sitting on the balcony looking the street below.

The other one was born here and so does not know any better. Back home i had many outdoor cats but here unfortunately is not an option
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 24.02.2012, 18:21
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,653
Groaned at 280 Times in 231 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

MIL's cat died aged 19 - and it was an outdoor cat. Going outdoors at 2 houses - without issue. Mind you he was a tough old bar-steward - and a pedigree Norwegian Forest

Our cat is now 8 years old. Has a spiral staircase from the flat in Zurich, has outside access at our mountain house, goes outside without issue at our place in Ticino - and has no issues when she holidays with the MIL (for a month at a time).

I fully understand how the rehoming places want to ensure that they don't get the same animals back again - I have adopted 4 cats in my time. Every single one of them came with issues - but every single one of them ended up happy. They adapt very quickly.

Any animal shelter worker should be able to identify genuine pet lovers - and their reasons for adopting - and work with the guidelines to ensure the welfare of the animal going forward isn't harmed.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 24.02.2012, 19:14
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,440
Groaned at 249 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 22,563 Times in 9,217 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Quote:
View Post
That's what I thought after loosing two cats to the SBB.
So after that I had two brothers as indoor cats. One day I came home from work, I found one of them dead on the floor, no injuries or illnesses, he was just 1 1/2 years old! I was always very careful with things lying around that didn't belong in to cat paws but still, something dreadful happened...
We didn't get an autopsy done but got his brother checked for any illnesses. Nothing to be found and he is still up and going and happy with his new little sister. But now I have this picture of walking through the door and finding one of them dead on the floor... not very nice...
Ooh that's a horrible thing to happen. Must have been a real shock for you.

He could have had a heart defect. It's not uncommon, hard to detect in kittens and the average lifespan for affected cats is 12 to 18 months. Our cat died last year at 15 months when we were on holiday. The lady looking after her found her collapsed on the floor who took her to the vet who diagnosed the problem. She died soon after.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 25.02.2012, 11:59
glennsche's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: zurich
Posts: 303
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 425 Times in 139 Posts
glennsche has an excellent reputationglennsche has an excellent reputationglennsche has an excellent reputationglennsche has an excellent reputation
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Quote:
I'll always remember meeting my first 'de-clawed' cat when visiting the US. The hosts thought it was hilarious that I was so shocked about it, and so upset. For them it was the norm- for me it was evil. Not comparable to indoor cats- but just to illustrate cultural differences.
In California declawing is considering extremely inhumane, equivalent to amputating a person's fingers at the first knuckle. (Not comparable to keeping a cat indoors at all.) Indeed declawing in most major US cities is considered as such and there are many groups such as PETA trying to outlaw this surgery, and most vets will not even perform it even at the insistance of owners. I just want to clarify that this is not US "culture" or mainstream to declaw cats. At most, the acceptance of declawing would be a regional difference (Georgia vs NYC) but even then the thinking from household to household will vary.

I am only bringing this up so you don't associate your first declawed cat experience (which was completely unfortunate) as representative thinking of the US. And just as you mentioned but to reiterate, this is completely different and not even comparable to keeping a cat indoors. To illustrate a cultural diff....a reluctant ok given some US households have declawed cats...but with a strong caveat, this is not the mainstream norm in the US, at least not in CA.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank glennsche for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 25.02.2012, 14:06
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Kilchberg
Posts: 46
Groaned at 8 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 40 Times in 20 Posts
orangeappled has earned some respectorangeappled has earned some respect
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Quote:
View Post
In California declawing is considering extremely inhumane, equivalent to amputating a person's fingers at the first knuckle. (Not comparable to keeping a cat indoors at all.) Indeed declawing in most major US cities is considered as such and there are many groups such as PETA trying to outlaw this surgery, and most vets will not even perform it even at the insistance of owners. I just want to clarify that this is not US "culture" or mainstream to declaw cats. At most, the acceptance of declawing would be a regional difference (Georgia vs NYC) but even then the thinking from household to household will vary.

I am only bringing this up so you don't associate your first declawed cat experience (which was completely unfortunate) as representative thinking of the US. And just as you mentioned but to reiterate, this is completely different and not even comparable to keeping a cat indoors. To illustrate a cultural diff....a reluctant ok given some US households have declawed cats...but with a strong caveat, this is not the mainstream norm in the US, at least not in CA.
I couldn't have said this better myself.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 25.02.2012, 14:17
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

This extreme example was used to illustrate how vast cultural differences are. Not all agree about declawing in the US, but it is still very common, perhaps especially in some areas more than others. Whereas here anybody who would have a cat declawed would end up in prison, and the vet would lose their job. It also illustrates that is is far too easy to make generalisations about a country based on a few examples one has experienced. In my first 2 visits to the US (Arizona and Colorado) all the cats I 'met' were de-clawed and their owners thought it was quite normal and that I was 'funny' for being upset. So I am delighted to hear this is not the norm- as it is just so cruel. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 25.02.2012, 14:26
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Kilchberg
Posts: 46
Groaned at 8 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 40 Times in 20 Posts
orangeappled has earned some respectorangeappled has earned some respect
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Quote:
View Post
I never realized this cultural difference existed. In the US, the standard advice from the SPCA is that they strongly recommend keeping cats indoors. This may be a reflection that most American homes are much bigger and there is an assumption that a cat will have enough space.



Happier, unhappier? I don't know. All of my cats have been indoor-only, and they all look smug as can be as they sit in the sunshine and take their baths. They've all been purrbots. They don't seem too unhappy to me, but that's subjective.

What isn't subjective is this: indoor cats live much longer lives than their outdoor counterparts, and have a significantly lower risk of injury or illness.
Yes the recommendation of SPCA, the shelter where i used to work, as well rescues in Los Angeles, etc is to keep cats indoors. Naturally it makes sense with big cities and traffic. Statistically speaking indoor cats will live longer lives. Yes of course you will hear stories (as many on this thread have posted) of "But my cat lived to be 35 and s/he was outdoor." Of course, as with any statistic, there will be exceptions. No one is saying it is a fact a cat will live longer if you keep it indoors or will live shorter outdoors. But it is a fact that this statistic exists (for big cities.) Also as with anything there are pros and cons of indoor/outdoor life for a cat, but as a poster mentioned a comparison between cats and kids, I am not sure I'm ready to make this comparison and their respective needs to play outside. Kids ... are kids. Cats are cats. Hey, some kids like to stay in and read. Some cats love to explore and would be unhappy inside, as some cats are complete content indoor loafers. As far as mega cities and their indoor recommendations, they are coming from a place where shelters are completely overrun, where cats are kept in cages. Compared to a cage an apartment is a luxury. And in this case, the cat is facing 7 days of potential adoption, and if there are no takers then sadly it is euthanized. Therefore it is only recommended that cats are kept indoors, and most shelters will not deny you a cat if you say you have some outdoor space, whereas some private rescues will actually check to see if your windows are screened so they can't get escape! (but at least in CA it is a law, that cats and dogs be spayed/neutered before adoption and will not be adopted out before this surgery, related to the pet overpop issue.) In the case of cities facing overrun shelters, you have to adjust your thinking if you believe a cat should run free (and not be fixed.) Just as if you live in a rural dorf in switzerland with green pastures, it would seem strange to keep a cat inside. Thus, the cultural differences come into play.

Last edited by orangeappled; 25.02.2012 at 15:16.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank orangeappled for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 25.02.2012, 17:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: na
Posts: 11,249
Groaned at 37 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 26,731 Times in 8,253 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Since I don't know much about cats (and thanks to my fruitbat mutts I don't have much chance for hands-on learning ) I did a bit of googling to see what well-respected animal welfare peeps in Switzerland have to say on the issue. In preparation for adopting a cat here, the following articles might be of help to explain the 'Swiss norm' with respect to cat ownership...

From the Tierheim Pfötli (the folks behind Tierrettungsdienst), an explanation of why they believe a cat should be have access to the outdoors:
http://www.tierrettungsdienst.ch/h/katzen_42.php

And, what is expected from an owner in order to provide an indoor cat with an 'artgerecht' life, from the Zürich Tierschutz:
http://www.zuerchertierschutz.ch/tie...ngskatzen.html

And from the Stiftung Suzy Utzinger, 'Eine Katze Zieht Ein"
http://www.susyutzinger.ch/content/h...dex.php?id=360

Yes, there is a cultural difference -it's important to understand why this preference is so strongly held, and to understand expectations of what it would take to provide an acceptable alternative if one wishes to keep a cat indoors. A case for keeping an indoor cat would probably be better received if one started out by saying: "I have researched the issue, I understand the concerns with regards to keeping cats indoors - and these are the steps I have taken to ensure that my cat will have an excellent quality of life with me..."

Last edited by meloncollie; 25.02.2012 at 17:40.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 28.02.2012, 09:35
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,653
Groaned at 280 Times in 231 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Returning to the "indoor cats live longer stat".

I'd like to see the numbers AFTER accidents are removed. I fully accept that a cat is more likely to die from a auto accident outside the home () - but what I'd like to see if whether there is evidence that the cats overall health is worse off. Do they die younger from age - so to speak.

But of course, this once again confuses quantity of life with quality of life. Our cat spends a huge amount of time inside - but if you lock her - she isn't happy.

(And I have lost 2 cats to car accidents)
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 28.02.2012, 10:40
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Kilchberg
Posts: 46
Groaned at 8 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 40 Times in 20 Posts
orangeappled has earned some respectorangeappled has earned some respect
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Quote:
View Post
Returning to the "indoor cats live longer stat".

I'd like to see the numbers AFTER accidents are removed. I fully accept that a cat is more likely to die from a auto accident outside the home () - but what I'd like to see if whether there is evidence that the cats overall health is worse off. Do they die younger from age - so to speak.

But of course, this once again confuses quantity of life with quality of life. Our cat spends a huge amount of time inside - but if you lock her - she isn't happy.

(And I have lost 2 cats to car accidents)

The quantity of life vs quality of life ideas are not mutually exclusive. My indoor cats enjoys BOTH quality and quantity. (This is the point of indoor cat advocacy, because indoor cats have a chance at enjoying both Q's.) Just 'cause an outdoor cat won't be happy indoors, doesn't mean all cats should remain outside, and vice-versa, I would never assume just because my indoor cat is happy (she does enjoy her sun-bathing on the balcony), that all cats should be indoor. Indeed, my mother in law's cat was *BORN* to be kept outdoors. He wanted out as soon as he crawled out of the womb!! If we kept him inside, the quality vs quantity would be completely imbalanced.

Facts (the weight each play on stat's, sorry dunno, depends on where you live I 'spose):
Outdoor cats:
Fatal accidents (auto, train, other animal, angry kid, etc)
Maiming and near fatal accidents (ensuing vet bills, painful suffering)
FIV (similar to the human AIDs virus, transmitted thru bite wounds. Yes i know a vaccination exists, but still a risk..)
Fights w other cats (arguments with neighbors, small claims court, or death)
Illness caused by eating rotten/poisened food (at my mom's where they live in the mountains, feral/outdoor cats were hunting endangered birds, so neighbors put out poison)
Exposure to diseases/parasites from birds/rodents
A hefty increase in fleas/ticks

etc etc etc

Regarding the quantity of life vs quality of life, I can tell you my 17 year old girl is just as happy as any outdoor cat. She would not be happy going outside solo. Indeed how I attained her many moons ago, was her former owners ( a busy mom with two kids in a tiny apartment in san francisco) kicked her out. I heard her from my window meowing at the top of her lungs to be let back in. After a week of this incessant meowing (and handing her back to one of the kids through the window) they kept letting her out and she kept meowing to come inside, waking the neighbors at 5am.
Since I worked at a shelter at the time, and this cat literally followed me home and up a fire escape to my door - she was skinny and starving too - I opened my door and she came running inside. The shelter spayed her, updated her shots, and fed her. She never had interest to go outside.

To reiterate however, if a cat exists who just will not be happy inside, let em out! Just keep in mind, you will be responsible for all that entails. And vice versa for indoor cats (possible weight gain, boredom..all of which are controllable of course if you are a conscientiousness indoor cat owner...)

Last edited by orangeappled; 28.02.2012 at 11:30.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank orangeappled for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 28.02.2012, 11:48
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Cats are essentially wild animals & should have the choice to do what they want. It should be their choice if they come back to you or move in next door because the food is better & they don't have children!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 28.02.2012, 11:58
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
My ex had 6 indoor cats, after moving to a flat with a garden the cats choose to go outside, average was 10 at the time!

One even liked sleeping in the dirty underwater of the women next door! After a couple of months her cats thought he lived there!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09.03.2012, 15:46
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Biel/Bienne
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tamara1987 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

I am having exactly the same problem. Did you get a cat in the end? I would be grateful for any advice.

We got our cat from a shelter in the UK and when we lived there, he was allowed to go outside. He actually never went further than our (tiny) garden and preferred to eat and sleep inside. We were told by the shelter people that he doesn't get on with other cats, but this turned out to be rubbish as he brought home a stray cat and the two of them seemed really happy together and we decided to keep the stray cat. Unfortunately he got run over after a year. We have since moved to Switzerland and as everything happened really quickly and lots of places didn't allow pets, we only managed to find a top floor flat without a balcony. Our cat really doesn't seem to mind not going outside, but I would like to get another cat to keep him company.

I rang a few Tierheime to adopt an unwanted cat and I really don't mind what breed it is or how old but they all said that they only give away outdoor cats and that it is impossible to have an "outdoor cat" as an indoor cat. At the same time, the government regulations say that normally, you shouldn't have an indoor cat on its own. How does that work?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 18.03.2012, 00:04
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 126
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
schutsim has no particular reputation at present
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Hi,

just wanted to add another source for getting a cat if the shelters will continue to refuse you one. Mine was from a farm. Google 'Bauernhofkatzen'. This site with various ads came up: http://www.tier-inserate.ch/Katzen/J...ze-138160.aspx
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 18.03.2012, 00:13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Some cats are more suitable to keep inside than others. If they have been inside since birth, they might be very happy to stay inside (although many of them, if they have a taste of the outdoors will never settle afterwards). But to keep a farm cat inside seems cruel to me, I am sorry.
A farm kitten would have been going out with sibblings into the barn, the fields, probably watched mum hunting mice, etc- and used to the outdoors from a couple of weeks old.

Last edited by Odile; 18.03.2012 at 00:24.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 18.03.2012, 00:25
gata's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Geneva
Posts: 3,887
Groaned at 67 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 3,629 Times in 1,702 Posts
gata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond reputegata has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

I disagree. My two come from a farm and they settled very well inside. We have a balcony they can go to but they dont go outside the front door.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 18.03.2012, 00:29
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Well there you go - we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, and that is fine.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 18.03.2012, 11:29
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,440
Groaned at 249 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 22,563 Times in 9,217 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why is adopting a cat in CH so difficult?

Quote:
View Post
I disagree. My two come from a farm and they settled very well inside. We have a balcony they can go to but they dont go outside the front door.
I guess it depends on the cat. We got a farm kitten and there was no way on earth that he would have stayed as an indoor cat. He tried to get outside from the minute we got him and to hear him howling at the door or window was heartbreaking. Once he was old enough we let him out and he always came back when called although he usually had a mouse in his mouth.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If born in CH, how difficult is it to apply for an American citizenship? Boston2011 Permits/visas/government 12 03.08.2011 21:08
Why so many Brits in CH in your view? sensitivechap Other/general 74 22.12.2010 13:18
Adopting a shelter cat in CH erin Pet corner 0 25.06.2009 10:13
Non-EU Permits - Why so difficult in Switzerland? Shorrick Mk2 Permits/visas/government 4 04.03.2009 01:26


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0