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Old 12.05.2012, 23:09
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Tick Diseases and Dogs?

Last year was bad for ticks but this year is worse! Every time we walk in the Jura she gets several (how disgusting!) and about once a week just walking around Nyon she gets one. There has been over 10 just in the last month. Just pulled another one out an hour ago (and this one was really buried in there, I couldn't get all of it out).

Suddenly, starting 3 days ago, she has been really tired. Only playing for an hour or two and sleeping the rest of the time. Even once she didn't want to go on a walk (which is not at all like my dog). She is still eating and seems upbeat when she is not sleeping. But its about twice or three times what she normally sleeps.

Information on Lyme disease with dogs seems really inconsistent. Seems like lots of dogs carry the disease but don't get sick. My vet was not concerned at all. Anyone with experience with the ticks in the area and dog? Any get sick? Poor pups
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Old 13.05.2012, 01:24
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

You live near France, and there in the Pharmacie you can buy the Ampoules of anti tick lotion. You just put some behind the neck and on the back in front of the tail.

The treatment lasts for weeks. You can buy it here from the Swiss Vet, but it costs much more.
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Old 13.05.2012, 09:54
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

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Information on Lyme disease with dogs seems really inconsistent. Seems like lots of dogs carry the disease but don't get sick. My vet was not concerned at all. Anyone with experience with the ticks in the area and dog? Any get sick? Poor pups
Summer 2009: My Hooligan suddenly began having seizures. She also exhibited motor-coordination problems. Prior to this she was healthy as a horse.

We started looking at various possibilities, from epilepsy to malignant hyperthermia (EIH) to brain damage - including the tick-born diseases.

Long story short, she tested highly positive for FSME (tick-born encephalitis).

Apparently, though, about half the dog population in Switzerland will test positive for FSME, indicating only that there are antibodies present - not necessarily the presence of disease. In the absesnce of symptoms, the dog has successfully fought an infection.

But even with symptoms there is much disagreement among veterinary specialists as to whether true FSME is present in the Swiss dog population, or not - and whether FSME was the cause of her seizures, or not. The virologist said possibly yes, the neurologist said possibly no.

As she had no familial history of epilepsy, as we ruled out MH, as the MRI didn't show brain damage, as the other tick-born diseases were negative... and because her seizure activity tracked the rise and fall of FSME antibodies in her blood, we cautiously took FSME as a working diagnosis. But it should be stressed that we cannot say for certain.

The seizure period lasted about 4 months; since that time she has remained seizure free - and her FSME tests have been in the very low postive range, consistent with being an artifact of a previous infection. (Thumbs pressed that she continues so.) If she were to begin seizing again, however, we'd have to revisit other possibilities such as epiliepsy...

FYI, there is no treatment for FSME, one can only support the dog via symptom alleviation.

So the answere to your question is: Maybe.


ETA:

If you are concerned, ask for the test. It's a simple blood draw, the analysis isn't all that expensive, IIRC - I remember that the bill, which included full chemistry, all the tick diseases, I think even a few more possibilities, and the neuro exams only came to ca 3-400. A simple Lyme test would probably be under 100. I tend to fall on the 'better safe than sorry' side - so if nothing else the test would rule out Lyme and put your mind at ease.

You know your dog best - if that little voice in the back of your head starts chattering - listen to it.

Hope your dog starts to feel better soon.

Last edited by meloncollie; 13.05.2012 at 10:23.
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Old 15.05.2012, 12:55
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

Hi !

I've had some experience with dogs & ticks before (although, not in Switzerland).

Like people, sometimes your dog may not feel well immediately after a tick has been taken out . I think this is due to the actual removal of the tick. When the tick is being removed, it can regurgitate saliva/bacteria, and this can cause people (and dogs) to not feel well. It might also hurt the dog having a tick pulled out, which also makes them not feel good.

I have had dogs in the past that will just lay down and rest after having a tick removed, or will itch the area a lot where the tick had been removed.

These are signs that I look for immediately after, and a couple days following a tick removal : redness, swelling, rash, or oozing at the sight of the tick removal. Also, anything unusual for my dog like loss of appetite, or if they are in pain.

As far as Lyme disease, before I moved to Switzerland I normally had my dogs tested once a year (when they would get their yearly vaccines and exam), but I've never had a dog contract Lyme disease.

Here is an article with a short list of symptoms related to Lyme disease in dogs : http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/...e#.T7Iyc9z9OYk

If your dog continues to show behavior that is not normal ( like not wanting to eat, drink or go on a walk), then going to a vet would be a good idea. It may not be Lyme disease, but your dog might still be sick. Definitely tell your veterinarian that your dog has been bit by ticks recently, though, and that you are concerned about tick borne diseases.

Also, here is a tick tool for removing ticks from your dog painlessly. I'm not sure if they sell this here in Switzerland, but the pet store is a good place to look. http://www.petco.com/product/102855/...t=OnSiteSearch

Also, putting a little bit of antibiotic ointment and hydrocortisone cream on the bites can help relieve pain, itching, and swelling.

Hope your doggy feels better
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Old 16.05.2012, 23:22
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

I returned from UK on Monday and my little boy resumed day care. Both yesterday and today he has come back with a tick.

He has had 2 or 3 in the past and I have successfully removed them but the last two have been tough to remove, and the one today, right on his forehead has broken.

I worry about these little buggers, the patch is now sore, but I've left it for now with seemingly the head remaining as he was getting agitated.

What should I do?

I have rubbed alcohol on it as a makeweight for now
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Old 17.05.2012, 07:49
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

Do you use Frontline on a regular basis?

According to my vet, if your dog tends to have a lot of ticks, Advantix is more efficient, and the ticks drop dead after a bite, instead of just dying and staying put with Frontline.

But be careful, if you have a dog belonging to the 'shepherd' family (and especially the collies), Frontline has been linked to seizures and must NOT be given.
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Old 17.05.2012, 09:11
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

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But be careful, if you have a dog belonging to the 'shepherd' family (and especially the collies), Frontline has been linked to seizures and must NOT be given.
Just a quick clarification, as the media has over-simplified this issue causing concern where none should exist, and complacency where owners should be more vigilant... typical media.

The issue you are referring to is the Multi Drug Resistance genetic defect (MDR1), where the blood/brain barrier in affected dogs is compromised, leaving these dogs unable to pump certain drugs out of their systems. For these dogs, drugs which are perfectly safe for unaffected dogs can be toxic.

This is an inherited defect; before breeding it is critical to test the parents to avoid parings which would pass on the defect. Testing is required within the collie and sheltie clubs in Switzerland and DE - sadly the US and UK kennel clubs are far too lax. (Which is why, 20 years on, the problem still exists.)

The defect was first noticed in the rough collie family, in response to Ivermectin. (Hence the internet meme.) However, the defect can affect many other breeds, and there is a whole long list of problematic drugs for affected dogs, from anti-parasites to anti diarrhea drugs, to opoids to chemotherapy. Recent research also suggests here are also immune system issues possibly related to the defect.

One should NEVER rely on breed alone when making decisions about the defect and drug safety. There is only one way to know if your dog is affected: do the test! It's a simple blood test or cheek swab, non invasive and fairly inexpensive.

The defect is widespread in the rough and smooth collies - some 75% of the population are either carriers (MDR1-/+) or affected ((MDR1-/-), the affected incidence is some 33%. All owners of rough amd smooth collies are advised to test their dogs. (Please note that we are talking about rough and smooth collies; border collies have a much lower incidence of affectation, some 0.03%) But it should be emphasized that one must test the individual - for instance, there are unaffected collies (MDR1+/+) for whom the listed drugs are perfectly safe.

According to the Giessen study, breeds showing incidence of the defect are:
http://www.vetmed.uni-giessen.de/pha...ekt/rassen.php

If one relies only on breed alone to make decisions, one risks giving toxic drugs to an affected dog - and on the other hand, one risks witholding a perfectly safe and necessary drug from an unaffected one. Both are worrying approaches - the only correct path is to test the individual, and proceed from fact.

I've had two MDR1-/- dogs, my collie Melon and my sheltie The Belltie. In hindsight we suspect that my first collie might have been affected, as we knew 'something' was not right with him, but the defect had not been identified all those years ago.

The defect played a part in many aspects of Melon's medical treatment; on several occasions we had to opt for less effective drugs to try to treat a condition due to toxicity concerns with the standard drug. Fortunately the Belltie has not been as dramatically affected.

My other rough collies and shelties are/were either carriers or unaffected; knowing their status I can/could safely give them drugs I could not give Melon or the Belltie.

Due to it's high incidence among the population, all rough collie owners should read the studies - owers of other affected breeds would be well advised to do so too.

The studies:
University of Giessen (DE)
http://www.vetmed.uni-giessen.de/pha...dr1_defekt.php

Washington State University (USA)
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/#Drugs


(Hopping off soap box now... sorry, it's a pet issue for me. Literally. )

Last edited by meloncollie; 17.05.2012 at 11:48.
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Old 17.05.2012, 09:39
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

We have Whippets and have to deal frequently with ticks both here and in Germany. Because Whippets are sensitive to many drugs, having a much lower body fat percentage, we work with homeopathic sprays made up of scents that ticks normally do not like, cloves being one of the ingredients and the only thing I smell when it's used. We get this in Germany as I haven't been able to find them here.

From this time of the year until late fall we will do a full visual and feel test after each walk. Since we started the use of this natural anti-tick spray we rarely find them but it will happen occasionally regardless of what treatment you use.

We also noticed that the one time we didn't catch one right away, it was in a dark hair patch, and the head didn't come out the boy also got sleepy. The vet there said it's a reaction to the toxin excreted as we were removing it and some is left in the head. The vet did not recommend minor surgery immediately to remove the head but said if he didn't return to normal in a couple of days or if he got worse to bring him back. Fortunately he was back to normal and no further action was needed.

I'll look up the name of the product and post it back over the weekend.
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Old 17.05.2012, 12:24
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

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We have Whippets and have to deal frequently with ticks both here and in Germany. Because Whippets are sensitive to many drugs, having a much lower body fat percentage, we work with homeopathic sprays made up of scents that ticks normally do not like, cloves being one of the ingredients and the only thing I smell when it's used. We get this in Germany as I haven't been able to find them here.

From this time of the year until late fall we will do a full visual and feel test after each walk. Since we started the use of this natural anti-tick spray we rarely find them but it will happen occasionally regardless of what treatment you use.

We also noticed that the one time we didn't catch one right away, it was in a dark hair patch, and the head didn't come out the boy also got sleepy. The vet there said it's a reaction to the toxin excreted as we were removing it and some is left in the head. The vet did not recommend minor surgery immediately to remove the head but said if he didn't return to normal in a couple of days or if he got worse to bring him back. Fortunately he was back to normal and no further action was needed.

I'll look up the name of the product and post it back over the weekend.

I have not used the drops or any of the strong chemicals becuase our vet said that overall they are worse for the dog than the ticks. He had a good point that something so powerful that it can kill a tick can only be bad for a dog even if it seems OK.

I have some scented spray we bought at the pharmacy but it smells so awful I only use it when going somewhere I know will have ticks. Maybe I should find another brand which smells like cloves The vet gave me a recipe of stuff to feed our dog which makes the dog smell or taste gross to ticks and he said that was best - however I only had to read the ingredients to know there is no way our dog would eat that (she is a picky eater)

Good news after about 1 week she has perked back up again!
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Old 17.05.2012, 13:42
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

Could your dog just be sulking? You say you've been away in the UK - and our animals often 'sulked' when we came back?

Make sure you get a proper tick remover, a tool that will hold the head of the tick right at the base so you can twist it off cleanly. Pulling with twisting right from the base can leave the head buried, and cause all sorts of nasties. We use Frontline on our dog, but only twice a year - and check daily for ticks and remove with one of those special tick removers. Never had a problem, touch wood.

Our dog had a very nasty reaction to Prac-Tic, basically because the young vet in France poured it all over her coat by mistake/inatention - and as we travelled on to the UK from there- she licked it all off. A couple of days later, the vet in the UK thought she had throat cancer, and had to give her full aneasthesia to examine her - and found her mouth, palate, tongue and throat were coverered with painful ulcers. She had to go on strong drugs for a long time to get better (the French vet would take no responsibility for anything- and it cost us a lot of money- but of course the pain for the dog was the worst). The manufacturers, Novartis, were contacted by our UK vet to report our dog's case - and they apparently took note - but never sent any form of compensation for the approx £500 it cost us.

When we used to come and go almost monthly with our dog UK/CH/ the (new!) vet signed the passport that she had treated our dog for ticks/fleas, but didn't actually do it- as she was concerned about the toxic effect of doing so too often. As long as our dog had been treated within 4 months, she said that was enough!

Last edited by Odile; 17.05.2012 at 19:16.
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Old 17.05.2012, 19:13
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

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We have Whippets



Being ignorant of what a Whippet is, I googled it and found those beautiful creatures! And you have a couple of those? Lucky you

Edit: Ahh, your avatar was the answer! Cute cute girl.
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Old 18.05.2012, 15:04
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

I did consider whether he was also depressed from trip. He was with me in UK and has gone from having people giving him attention all day and meeting lots of other dogs and being spoilt, to his normal routine of daycare with the other dogs and dog sitter until I get home.

Yesterday he slept all day mostly, and was not too interested in his food. Though he certainly perked up with full energy when friend popped over with her Schanuzer, which was female and Louix was "very" excited by that. He did eventually eat one meal for the day.

I'll be sure to check him again tonight, and expect there will be a tick.

I havent used any treatment for him yet, though a friend did recomment the collar, looks like a rubber collar that has medicine in it I guess?
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Old 18.05.2012, 15:11
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

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Old 20.05.2012, 13:53
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs - name of spray

Hi all,

The name of the spray that we use for our Whippets is "Boga Care anti-zecken-spray". It's a non-aresol spray that comes in a flexible plastic tube with a pump spray top.

It's produced by a Swiss Company called Bogar of Switzerland. We get it from a shop in Germany so I can't tell you where to go in Switzerland as I haven't looked much.

www.bogar.ch

The active ingredient is Margosa oil extract. It smells like cloves and when used as a salve it's a natural cure for wounds, and it's smell repels Fleas, Ticks and Mites

It does have Propanol as the main liquid, so if your dog has open rashes from skin allergies or such, or open wounds recommend you speak to your Vet before using at it could irritate or cause some pain if sprayed on those areas.

We spray their legs, feet, chest and belly before walks and it works. As long as you don't mind your buddy smelling like cloves I highly recommend it. It is listed as only being for dogs.
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Old 20.05.2012, 19:51
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

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Anyone with experience with the ticks in the area and dog? Any get sick? Poor pups
you will find my experience here:
Piroplasmosis - dog owners, please read!

all our pets are religiously covered in Frontline after this.
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Old 21.05.2012, 15:33
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

Has your pup had any lingering/recurring effects of the Piro episode, Ulainga?
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Old 21.05.2012, 16:07
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

thanks for asking - luckily he seems to have made a full recovery, no further health issues.
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Old 21.05.2012, 23:25
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

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I havent used any treatment for him yet, though a friend did recomment the collar, looks like a rubber collar that has medicine in it I guess?
Sounds like the Scalibor collar. I've used these very effectively on both dogs for several years, although I put this year's on my giant schnauzer on Friday and I think the active ingredients must be stronger in this batch, going by his behaviour. It takes a few days for the excess powder to wear off, but they are effective for 4-6 months which covers the summer season perfectly well
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Old 22.05.2012, 14:26
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

In regards to the tea tree oil

Do NOT put tea tree oil on your dog or cat. Tea tree oil can poison your pet.

Symptoms of Tea Tree oil toxicity :
http://www.petpoisonhelpline.com/poison/tea-tree-oil/

http://www.veterinarywatch.com/Abstr...a-tree-oil.htm

Yes, I know what you are thinking ' But, manufacturers put tea tree oil in pet shampoos and conditioners '. Well, I don't have an answer for why they do that except that maybe they put such a small amount in these products that it wouldn't affect a pet, and also you rinse these products off your dog.

I do realize that the post in this thread said " for human usage ", though.

While we're on the subject of using tea tree oil to repel ticks for human usage ...

Once upon a time there was a girl named TheLaughingCow, and she put 100% pure tea tree oil directly on her foot, and it was a stupid stupid STUPID mistake. It burned her foot really bad, hurt a lot and was red and rashy looking for a couple of days. It also severely dried her skin for a couple of weeks. Eventually, she felt better though. The End

Moral of the story : Do NOT put tea tree oil directly on your skin ! It needs to be mixed correctly with something like lotion, soap, olive oil etc.

...and yes tea tree oil is good for repelling insects

Please learn from my mistakes
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Old 22.05.2012, 14:53
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Re: Tick Diseases and Dogs?

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I
Once upon a time there was a girl named TheLaughingCow, and she put 100% pure tea tree oil directly on her foot, and it was a stupid stupid STUPID mistake. It burned her foot really bad, hurt a lot and was red and rashy looking for a couple of days. It also severely dried her skin for a couple of weeks. Eventually, she felt better though. The End

Moral of the story : Do NOT put tea tree oil directly on your skin ! It needs to be mixed correctly with something like lotion, soap, olive oil etc.
Sounds like you're allergic? I use pure tea tree oil directly on my skin all the time, never had any issues or irritation. But sure, better safe than sorry, so if not sure, proceed with caution.
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