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Old 18.03.2015, 19:06
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Re: Giving pets raw food

80% of the time I feed chicken because it's the cheapest. Chicken thighs, heart,liver and kidneys. I grind all the meat and mix with eggs, water and essential vitamins. Freeze and serve a portion each day. I write about my process on my blog. If you're interested in learning more PM me. It's important to me to do the best I can for the health of my cat within my means.
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  #62  
Old 18.03.2015, 19:17
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Re: Giving pets raw food

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80% of the time I feed chicken because it's the cheapest. Chicken thighs, heart,liver and kidneys. I grind all the meat and mix with eggs, water and essential vitamins. Freeze and serve a portion each day. I write about my process on my blog. If you're interested in learning more PM me. It's important to me to do the best I can for the health of my cat within my means.
As I haven't seen chicken hearts etc. in Migros/Coop (just the regular wings and breast for human consumption) I was wondering where you ask for them - guess I'll do so at the charcuterie counter (Offenfleischverkauf) next time I go there.
Migros sell a frozen meat mix for animals but as it isn't clear how much of what is in it, I won't be buying it.
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Old 18.03.2015, 19:58
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Re: Giving pets raw food

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As I haven't seen chicken hearts etc. in Migros/Coop (just the regular wings and breast for human consumption) I was wondering where you ask for them - guess I'll do so at the charcuterie counter (Offenfleischverkauf) next time I go there.
Migros sell a frozen meat mix for animals but as it isn't clear how much of what is in it, I won't be buying it.
They certainly have chicken livers in the fresh section of both Migros and COOP but not sure about hearts. The Migros has frozen chicken hearts and livers ( for human consumption) in large packs in the freezer with all the chicken thighs, soup chickens etc where I live.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 18.03.2015 at 21:40.
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  #64  
Old 18.03.2015, 21:36
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Re: Giving pets raw food

Correct, all Migros have frozen chicken heart and liver and I buy rabbit kidney from there as well. Most Coop's sell fresh refrigerated chicken heart just next to all of their chicken meats (but not all Coops I have found)

If you are interested in learning more just PM me. I love sharing my experience.
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  #65  
Old 18.03.2015, 21:56
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Cats are obligate carnivores which mean they need to eat 100% meat. They have zero need for grains, fruits or vegetables. All types of cats in the wild eat raw meat. Domestic cats typically eat mice, small rabbits, rodents and birds. These prey animals contain about 70% water. Cats do not have a strong thirst drive and are not good about drinking water. Most if not all of their water should come from their food.

Whats wrong with dry food?
1. water content way too low
2. carbohydrates are too high
3. the protein is often plant based and not high enough animal based protein
4 the food is heavily processed with many unnecessary additives

Basically a dry fed cat is in a consistent state of dehydration and it is believed that many health issues that affect cats are caused by a dry diet such as: obesity, diabetes, kidney disease, food allergies, hairballs, IBD and crystals.

Its true that cats love dry food, but just like children like candy and mcdonnalds they shouldn't eat it everyday.

Basically all wet foods are better than dry foods because wet foods have less calories, higher protein and higher water content. However there is a big range in quality and price of wet food.

I understand that sometime cats can live long lives on solely dry food. And I am happy your cat survived so long. But there is a difference between surviving and thriving. I can say the same for my grandfather for example who lived to be 88 and smoked for 45 years.

What food you feed your pet does not reflect how much you love them. I am not here to judge or lecture anyone on what you feed. I fed my previous cats dry food their whole lives because I didn’t know anything else and at the time I didn’t have the curiosity to question what I was feeding. But I loved my previous cats just as much as I love my current homemade raw fed cat. It’s just that I have more knowledge now and once you have that knowledge it is very difficult not to do the right thing.



thanks for being so interested in pet nutrition :-)



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We've had a couple that have pushed on to 19 or 20. Must have been all the nasty artificial preservatives in their food or something.
The preservatives are actually one of the least harmful things about commercial dry food. The harmful things being the high carbohydrate, low protein, high calories and fillers used.

Thank you so much for your reply, I love to see others interested in pet nutrition :-)

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The vets I've worked with (medical and surgical specialists, as well as emergency vets) pretty much uniformly advise strongly against feeding raw meat, and especially raw bones, to dogs and cats. Dangers include nutritional imbalance with essential nutrients missing from this diet, and excruciatingly painful (often lethal) injury to the digestive tract caused by splintered bones..
You are correct that it is not as simple as just throwing down chicken thigh here or there. An homemade unbalanced raw diet is incredibly dangerous if the animal is not getting the correct ratio of essential vitamins such as Vit E and taurine for example. But a balanced, well planned home made raw diet is one of the best things a pet can eat. Therefore this diet takes time and research to make it appropriate.

Cooked bones are very dangerous to animals and should never be given. But appropriately sized raw bones are very healthy for cats and dogs. Meaning you do not feed a cat a cow rib, etc.

For my own convenience I grind bones so my cat can eat them that way. But chewing on bones is very good for the dental health of cats and dogs.

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Well-formulated dry foods with water freely available provide all the nutrients dogs and cats require. My cat remains extremely healthy after 16 years on one premium brand of dry food. He has eaten literally nothing else since he was a kitten.

From Wikipedia: "Veterinary associations such as the American Veterinary Medical Association, British Veterinary Association and Canadian Veterinary Medical Association have warned of the animal and public health risk that could arise from feeding raw meat to pets and have stated that there is no scientific evidence to support the claimed benefits of raw feeding.".
I can't say anything about the British Vet Ass but the American Veterinary... is heavily funded and influenced by the pet food industry. You see it when you walk into a vet's office and they are selling all these prescription pet diets.
http://www.salon.com/2006/01/19/raw_3/

http://www.canadianveterinarians.net...diets-for-pets[/QUOTE]

Thanks again for adding to the important conversation.

Last edited by 22 yards; 19.03.2015 at 03:30. Reason: Sorted out quote formatting
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  #66  
Old 18.03.2015, 22:28
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Re: Giving pets raw food

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Correct, all Migros have frozen chicken heart and liver and I buy rabbit kidney from there as well. Most Coop's sell fresh refrigerated chicken heart just next to all of their chicken meats (but not all Coops I have found)

If you are interested in learning more just PM me. I love sharing my experience.
That's fab, thanks. I found out that my Migros indeed sells chicken livers and hearts.
I have my sources for info on raw feeding, but thanks anyway.

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They certainly have chicken livers in the fresh section of both Migros and COOP but not sure about hearts. The Migros has frozen chicken hearts and livers ( for human consumption) in large packs in the freezer with all the chicken thighs, soup chickens etc where I live.
Probably they were too hidden in my Migros because I haven't seen them until now but I just found out that they have them so I'll go check my Migros out sometime soon. Thanks!
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  #67  
Old 18.03.2015, 22:28
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Re: Cat nutrition-raw diet info

What you seem to forget is that in the wild cats - and dogs for that matter - would indeed be eating meat, including the stomach contents of their prey which would include all sorts of things like grass, seeds, etc. So not strictly a 100% meat diet by any means. And don't forget that cats will also eat grass on their own.

If you're happy to feed raw meat then go ahead. I'm quite happy with a mix of tinned and dry food for my cats (when I have them). So are they btw. Just, please, don't become an enthusiast for making them vegetarians - that I consider to be cruelty.
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  #68  
Old 18.03.2015, 23:07
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Re: Cat nutrition-raw diet info

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What you seem to forget is that in the wild cats - and dogs for that matter - would indeed be eating meat, including the stomach contents of their prey which would include all sorts of things like grass, seeds, etc. So not strictly a 100% meat diet by any means. And don't forget that cats will also eat grass on their own.
Indeed. And all sorts of other contaminants like fur, bone, feathers, mud, claws, insects, earthworms... In fact they'll eat almost anything in extremis. And they're also quite good at making sure they get enough water, although yes, house cats aren't good at drinking out of bowls, so alternative sources like this may be better if dried food only is given.


Last edited by Ace1; 18.03.2015 at 23:19.
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Old 18.03.2015, 23:10
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Re: Giving pets raw food

My cat always liked to have a drink out of the bowl of water I put out for the birds to bathe in. Much tastier than the one in the house I put down for her.
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Old 18.03.2015, 23:21
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Re: Giving pets raw food

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My cat always liked to have a drink out of the bowl of water I put out for the birds to bathe in. Much tastier than the one in the house I put down for her.
Or puddles, or any other source than the one you provide for them. Ours quite like to drink from the swimming pool. Perverse creatures, aren't they?
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Old 18.03.2015, 23:33
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Re: Giving pets raw food

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Or puddles, or any other source than the one you provide for them. Ours quite like to drink from the swimming pool. Perverse creatures, aren't they?
Yep. One of mine used to prefer to drink her water out of the toilet bowl. Good thing it was before the days of hanging toilet blocks activated when the toilet flushes, etc. God knows what chemicals she'd be ingesting these days doing that.
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Old 19.03.2015, 02:39
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Re: Cat nutrition-raw diet info

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What you seem to forget is that in the wild cats - and dogs for that matter - would indeed be eating meat, including the stomach contents of their prey which would include all sorts of things like grass, seeds, etc. So not strictly a 100% meat diet by any means. And don't forget that cats will also eat grass on their own.

If you're happy to feed raw meat then go ahead. I'm quite happy with a mix of tinned and dry food for my cats (when I have them). So are they btw. Just, please, don't become an enthusiast for making them vegetarians - that I consider to be cruelty.
Not forgotten in the slightest - but IMO there is a big difference between the 0-max. 15% of veggies/fruits (not grains) recommended for cats in their diet -

http://www.rawfoodvets.com/articles/article8
http://www.catnutrition.org/faq.html#logistics
http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/...-dietary-fiber
http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/...-balancing-act
http://tcfeline.com/cat-nutrition-info/

- and the way higher percentage of grains/plant stuff not needed by cats in many commercially prepared wet and dry cat foods. IMO a freely accessible supply of cat grass is sufficient for a decent raw feline diet which otherwise consists of meat, bones and supplements in the correct ratios.

And after all this thread is about raw and not about tinned or dry food.

Last edited by glowjupiter; 19.03.2015 at 02:51.
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  #73  
Old 19.03.2015, 18:29
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Re: Giving pets raw food

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The vets I've worked with (medical and surgical specialists, as well as emergency vets) pretty much uniformly advise strongly against feeding raw meat, and especially raw bones, to dogs and cats. Dangers include nutritional imbalance with essential nutrients missing from this diet, and excruciatingly painful (often lethal) injury to the digestive tract caused by splintered bones.

I'd hope that people feeding raw know that you shouldn't cook or heat any food with bones in it, meaning also that "thawing" bony meat in the microwave should be out of the question for owners who feed raw. But canines and felines have the teeth to deal with raw bones.
And of course nutritional imbalances can happen if one doesn't pay attention to the nutritional needs of their pets and just feeds them whatever meat/bony meat/organ meat/veggie's on sale without paying attention to how much of what should be fed and ignoring that e.g. cats need taurine.
But it can be equally nutritionally imbalanced for a pet to receive a wet or dry food if the owner doesn't pay attention to the nutritional value of and the individual pet's response to that food.


Well-formulated dry foods with water freely available provide all the nutrients dogs and cats require. My cat remains extremely healthy after 16 years on one premium brand of dry food. He has eaten literally nothing else since he was a kitten.

Your cat may have been lucky or an incredible drinker, but I would never rely on my cats drinking all the necessary water to make up for the dehydration of dried food.

From Wikipedia: "Veterinary associations such as the American Veterinary Medical Association, British Veterinary Association and Canadian Veterinary Medical Association have warned of the animal and public health risk that could arise from feeding raw meat to pets and have stated that there is no scientific evidence to support the claimed benefits of raw feeding."

http://www.salon.com/2006/01/19/raw_3/

http://www.canadianveterinarians.net...diets-for-pets
As for public health risks,

be equally attentive and thorough when cleaning work surfaces after preparing raw food as you would be when preparing chicken etc.,

using hot soapy water to immediately clean used utensils and not using the same cutting boards for meat and vegetables,

don't let careless people/young kids handle the litter box,

wash hands frequently and you'll be fine.

Remember the difference between canine/feline and human digestive tracts and its effect on the ability to deal with raw food in a different way than humans do.
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Old 30.03.2015, 16:28
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Raw foods for cats

Hello all: I am preparing to bring my two cats to Zurich and am trying to plan ahead regarding their feeding. They have grown up on an exclusively raw meat diet, but I have always purchased pre-made raw food from pet stores in the US.

Is it possible to find pre-made raw food from pet stores in Switzerland?

Many thanks for your help and advice.
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  #75  
Old 30.03.2015, 16:29
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Re: Raw foods for cats

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Is it possible to find pre-made raw food from pet stores in Switzerland?
Yes
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Old 30.03.2015, 16:42
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Re: Raw foods for cats

Thanks for letting me know! Can you recommend a particular brand, or tell me which stores in the Zurich area carry prepared raw food?
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Old 30.03.2015, 16:47
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Re: Raw foods for cats

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Thanks for letting me know! Can you recommend a particular brand, or tell me which stores in the Zurich area carry prepared raw food?
Goldenway - click on Standort for location.
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  #78  
Old 30.03.2015, 19:21
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Re: Raw foods for cats

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Hello all: I am preparing to bring my two cats to Zurich and am trying to plan ahead regarding their feeding. They have grown up on an exclusively raw meat diet, but I have always purchased pre-made raw food from pet stores in the US.

Is it possible to find pre-made raw food from pet stores in Switzerland?

Many thanks for your help and advice.
Source of info - this thread


For meat and meat preparations:

buonviando
Barf and more
Barfland
Navita
Carmelo's
Qualipet
Your butcher of choice

For supplements:

Katzengesundheit
Goldenway

Last edited by glowjupiter; 30.03.2015 at 19:40.
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  #79  
Old 30.03.2015, 20:02
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Re: Giving pets raw food

Our cat was an outdoor cat and ate only prepared cat food when she could not find a live mouse to eat.

Now that she is "retired" and is in the house all day, we try to feed her "healthy" cat food, and occasionally give her cooked or raw meat.

Last edited by WilliamTell; 30.03.2015 at 21:07.
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Old 31.03.2015, 01:20
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Re: Giving pets raw food

Thank you so much for all this information! Much appreciated!!
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