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Old 30.05.2013, 12:35
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New dog with toilet habits all over the place

Hello all fellow dog owners,

Does anyone have experience of bringing home a 6 month old? We got ours on Tuesday and while she has demonstrated she can hold herself, we still take her out at least every 4 hours. However she doesn't usually go on these trips out. She only goes when she asks us to so we are going in between as well and last night was a night mare as she went once for wee and once for poo. Is this typical new home, no routine behaviour? Do we just keep taking her out before she asks us to encourage her to get into a routine? How can we make her realise this is her opportunity to go?

Any advice welcome.
S
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Old 30.05.2013, 12:40
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

It's a 6 month old dog...... that's what they do.

The important thing for you to do are the following:
a) Don't lose your temper
b) Positive reinforcement.

a) It's hard for a young dog to figure out how the world works..... she's 6 months on planet earth, so you can cut her a bit of slack.... she will learn in time.

b) Let her know when she's good, and when she's bad. ALWAYS during the act, never after. A dog immediately forgets and when she's scoulded later she will have no idea why you are angry with her.
ASSOCIATION is the key.
"Goog girl" and (or) a treat when she's good.
a sharp "No" or scould when she's bad, and she will soon figure it out.


It shouldn't take much longer until they learn to hold it over night and then your life gets easier.
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Old 30.05.2013, 12:45
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

So, is the pup going in the home or not at all?

As thats what I thought at first, but then re-reading it seems like she is already asking you that she needs to go out, thus knowing indoors is not the correct place, just doesnt seem to go when you take her but wants to then go later?

All dogs, particularly pups, will have a settling in period. They need to get used to your routine, and you need to enforce a routine for them.

Typically that would be morning, afternoon, evening thing. Pretty standard.

So I would suggest getting in the habit of taking her out early, 7/8am, whatever time your house is up, and waiting at a grassy spot which can become the regular start place. Have treats and make a big deal of it when she goes outside, give her treat, praise, act like a fool.

Then once she does her business, go home and feed her. Keep doing this for a while and she will get used to her morning going out time, and when I do my business I get to go home and have FOOOOD.

If she is doing it in the house, then there are different steps to take too, but not sure if thats the issue"?
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Old 30.05.2013, 12:46
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

Awwww! My guy figured it out pretty quick because we had no choice but to put him straight into routine!

Keep the routine up, she will figure it ot!
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Old 30.05.2013, 12:55
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

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So, is the pup going in the home or not at all?
ahhh, this is a bit different.

OP,
You really have to start to anticipate when your pup "needs to go", and there are classic 'behavioural' signs that will give it away. (the way the walk and sniff etc).

That's when you have to begin to raise your voice sharply, and sternly say "NO"..... not like "No" I don't want fries with that, I mean when your sixteen year old daughter is about to walk out the door with a boy with a motorcyle "NO"

I hope that someone can correct me here, as I haven't actually tried this trick.
But I've heard that if you can "pick the pup up" then they won't go.
You can still say "NO", pick up the pup...... go outside.

When she's on the go...... then "Good girl"

ASSOCIATION
"Peeing outside is GOOOOoooood" = Belly scratch later.
"peeing inside releases the Devil"
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Old 30.05.2013, 12:59
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

We are lucky that she doesn't go in the house. It is simply that when we take her on her routine walks, morning, noon and night she doesn't go and then asks to go in between those times. I don't mind taking her out again but am also keen to stick to the routine. Thanks so much.
Sophie
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So, is the pup going in the home or not at all?

As thats what I thought at first, but then re-reading it seems like she is already asking you that she needs to go out, thus knowing indoors is not the correct place, just doesnt seem to go when you take her but wants to then go later?

All dogs, particularly pups, will have a settling in period. They need to get used to your routine, and you need to enforce a routine for them.

Typically that would be morning, afternoon, evening thing. Pretty standard.

So I would suggest getting in the habit of taking her out early, 7/8am, whatever time your house is up, and waiting at a grassy spot which can become the regular start place. Have treats and make a big deal of it when she goes outside, give her treat, praise, act like a fool.

Then once she does her business, go home and feed her. Keep doing this for a while and she will get used to her morning going out time, and when I do my business I get to go home and have FOOOOD.

If she is doing it in the house, then there are different steps to take too, but not sure if thats the issue"?
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Old 30.05.2013, 13:03
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

No she doesn't go indoors, she seems to have that sussed already. just doesn't go on routine walks and always asks to go in between. we take her out so she doesn't do it indoors but for example last night we were out with her 3 times even though she went out at 11pm and were planning to take her again at 7am as she should be able to go through the night. i think she is still working things out bless her, sophie

QUOTE=TidakApa;1890662]ahhh, this is a bit different.

OP,
You really have to start to anticipate when your pup "needs to go", and there are classic 'behavioural' signs that will give it away. (the way the walk and sniff etc).

That's when you have to begin to raise your voice sharply, and sternly say "NO"..... not like "No" I don't want fries with that, I mean when your sixteen year old daughter is about to walk out the door with a boy with a motorcyle "NO"

I hope that someone can correct me here, as I haven't actually tried this trick.
But I've heard that if you can "pick the pup up" then they won't go.
You can still say "NO", pick up the pup...... go outside.

When she's on the go...... then "Good girl"

ASSOCIATION
"Peeing outside is GOOOOoooood" = Belly scratch later.
"peeing inside releases the Devil"[/QUOTE]
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Old 30.05.2013, 13:11
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

First, if you are taking her out every four hours and she is not clean in the house you are leaving it too long. Start by taking her out every hour or so.

Take her out:

Upon waking, both from overnight sleep and after daytime naps
After every play session
After every meal
And, regularly scheduled trips outside.

Next, and this is the big issue: What do you mean by 'take her out'?

Sticking to routine is a good thing - but that routine must be appropriate to the dog's current needs and abilities. We owners have to first develop a routine that matches what the dog can do, and then once basic training is established gradually move to the routine that ultimately fits our schedules. The first days/weeks/months in a new home means that we owners have to do most of the adjusting.

It is important that the owner very clearly shows the dog what he/she is expected to do - which means being involved during those outside breaks. One can't just let the dog outside and bring him/her back in, one has to 'teach' the dog what you wish him/her to do, and reinforce the message in a positive way.

What I do - be the dog a puppy, newly adopted adolescent, adult, or senior:

Starting with once an hour regularly scheduled breaks and after sleep or meals, I put my new dog on lead and we both go out into the garden together. We start by walking the garden perimeter; when my dog starts to make the motions to go (gender dependent), I say my chosen 'piddle word' in a neutral voice. The idea is to develop an association between the action and the command. When my dog has successfully done the necessary I then offer big, excited praise and a treat. Then, only then, do I unleash my dog to play in the garden. Then back into the house. Rinse and repeat thousands of times according to the list above.

(I find a 'piddle' command invaluable, especially in Switzerland. If your dog can eliminate on command you will avoid many of the usual neighborhood disputes by first taking care of business in your garden and then continuing your walk through the neighborhoods. And, a piddle command is handy when you have to let the dog out before you catch a train...)

If my dog has an accident in the house I take him outside immediately, and go through the above process. No reaction to the accident, I simply clean it up.

If I see my dog starting to behave as if he might piddle inside, I use an 'ah!' to interrupt and immediately outside we go, using the process above.

ETA: I don't use a sharp 'No!' because mine tend to be sensitive wilting flowers - a sharp voice would be enough to link urinating=punishment in their damaged minds, causing them to try to avoid urinating at all, compounding the problem. (Some of mine come from pretty bleak backgrounds.) But one should temper the interrupter to the individual, as you know your dog's psyche best. With a happy mentally healthy pup a sharp 'No!' is fine - with a dog from a troubled background I would likely use a softer tone.

But the idea is the same - interrupt, and outside.

Key is big praise and reward when the dog urinates appropriately outside. If you are clicker training - and I strongly recommend doing so right from the beginning - the click/treat comes after the dog has finished urinating.

Some dogs catch on quickly, some take more time. Consistency is the key - and there is no substitute.

OF course, the above assumes that the dog is healthy and house training is just a question of learning/training. However, if you see any signs of straining or pain, if the urine is an unusual color, if house training takes longer than you expect it is always wise to see the vet for a check-up, bringing along a urine sample. A bladder infection will most certainly affect a pup's control.

Don't get discouraged - time, patience, clear directions, praise and reward, patience and more time will do the trick.


ETA2: Reading more carefully, it seems that your key issue is not eliminating when you want her to do so. In such a case, I would continue with frequent/hourly trips outside as above in order to more firmly establish the piddle command. Frequent repetition is the way to teach a dog - the time you put in now will be repaid a hundredfold later. Teaching a dog to piddle on command is one of the things that will make your life easier, especially if you live in a flat rather than a house with garden.

Last edited by meloncollie; 30.05.2013 at 13:41.
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Old 30.05.2013, 13:29
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

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If my dog has an accident in the house I take him outside immediately, and go through the above process. No reaction to the accident, I simply clean it up.

I absolutely detest to hear of people who "rub their dogs nose in it"what a cruel and unusual punishment for something they probably cannotunderstand!
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Old 30.05.2013, 13:33
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

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I hope that someone can correct me here, as I haven't actually tried this trick.
But I've heard that if you can "pick the pup up" then they won't go.
You can still say "NO", pick up the pup...... go outside.
After 8 days on accident prevention duty with a now 9-week-old puppy, I can confirm that picking up the dog interrupts all streams, and carrying the dog seems to prevent (though I am unwilling to extend the carrying periods beyond the necessary minimum to get downstairs and outside, for obvious reasons!).

I think the reason it interrupts, though, has something to do with a 5kg puppy seeing a sudden flurry of motion out of normally-sedate 93kg giant, directly in his direction. I probably scare the crap out of him at those times.
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Old 30.05.2013, 13:35
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

I agree. What is the point?

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I absolutely detest to hear of people who "rub their dogs nose in it"what a cruel and unusual punishment for something they probably cannotunderstand!
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Old 30.05.2013, 13:36
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

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It's a 6 month old dog...... that's what they do.

The important thing for you to do are the following:
a) Don't lose your temper
b) Positive reinforcement.

a) It's hard for a young dog to figure out how the world works..... she's 6 months on planet earth, so you can cut her a bit of slack.... she will learn in time.

b) Let her know when she's good, and when she's bad. ALWAYS during the act, never after. A dog immediately forgets and when she's scoulded later she will have no idea why you are angry with her.
ASSOCIATION is the key.
"Goog girl" and (or) a treat when she's good.
a sharp "No" or scould when she's bad, and she will soon figure it out.


It shouldn't take much longer until they learn to hold it over night and then your life gets easier.
Well said
Our dog teacher (we have a boxer) once told us that a dog can associate to something as long as for 3 seconds.
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Old 30.05.2013, 13:41
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

Thanks so much for that fab info melloncollie. She is clean in the house and i believe she can hold herself as she has demonstrated this alot already. We are just trying to get her in a routine so she learns to go then. when we take her out we go for a walk but the issue is that she doesn't yet associate that with toileting. we of course take her more often if she shows us she needs to go its just that at the moment i feel like i am out all the time without much success! am going to follow your advice below. She is lovely though and very funny and we know she is adjusting.

QUOTE=meloncollie;1890685]First, if you are taking her out every four hours and she is not clean in the house you are leaving it too long. Start by taking her out every hour or so.

Take her out:

Upon waking, both from overnight sleep and after daytime naps
After every play session
After every meal
And, regularly scheduled trips outside.

Next, and this is the big issue: What do you mean by 'take her out'?

Sticking to routine is a good thing - but that routine must be appropriate to the dog's current needs and abilities. We owners have to first develop a routine that matches what the dog can do, and then once basic training is established gradually move to the routine that ultimately fits our schedules. The first days/weeks/months in a new home means that we owners have to do most of the adjusting.

It is important that the owner very clearly shows the dog what he/she is expected to do - which means being involved during those outside breaks. One can't just let the dog outside and bring him/her back in, one has to 'teach' the dog what you wish him/her to do, and reinforce the message in a positive way.

What I do - be the dog a puppy, newly adopted adolescent, adult, or senior:

Starting with once an hour regularly scheduled breaks and after sleep or meals, I put my new dog on lead and we both go out into the garden together. We start by walking the garden perimeter; when my dog starts to make the motions to go (gender dependent), I say my chosen 'piddle word' in a neutral voice. The idea is to develop an association between the action and the command. When my dog has successfully done the necessary I then offer big, excited praise and a treat. Then, only then, do I unleash my dog to play in the garden. Then back into the house. Rinse and repeat thousands of times according to the list above.

(I find a 'piddle' command invaluable, especially in Switzerland. If your dog can eliminate on command you will avoid many of the usual neighborhood disputes by first taking care of business in your garden and then continuing your walk through the neighborhoods. And, a piddle command is handy when you have to let the dog out before you catch a train...)

If my dog has an accident in the house I take him outside immediately, and go through the above process. No reaction to the accident, I simply clean it up.

If I see my dog starting to behave as if he might piddle inside, I use an 'ah!' to interrupt and immediately outside we go, using the process above.

ETA: I don't use a sharp 'No!' because mine tend to be sensitive wilting flowers - a sharp voice would be enough to link urinating=punishment in their damaged minds, causing them to try to avoid urinating at all, compounding the problem. (Some of mine come from pretty bleak backgrounds.) But one should temper the interrupter to the individual, as you know your dog's psyche best. With a happy mentally healthy pup a sharp 'No!' is fine - with a dog from a troubled background I would likely use a softer tone.

But the idea is the same - interrupt, and outside.

Key is big praise and reward when the dog urinates appropriately outside. If you are clicker training - and I strongly recommend doing so right from the beginning - the click/treat comes after the dog has finished urinating.

Some dogs catch on quickly, some take more time. Consistency is the key - and there is no substitute.

OF course, the above assumes that the dog is healthy and house training is just a question of learning/training. However, if you see any signs of straining or pain, if the urine is an unusual color, if house training takes longer than you expect it is always wise to see the vet for a check-up, bringing along a urine sample. A bladder infection will most certainly affect a pup's control.

Don't get discouraged - time, patience, clear directions, praise and reward, patience and more time will do the trick.[/QUOTE]
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Old 30.05.2013, 13:43
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

Another thought, have you checked with the people you got her from what her previous "normal times" were. It may be she's asking at the "right" time for her at present. If their routine is very much different from yours that might be playing a part.

Do you particularly feel the need for her to have to go when she's out walking? I just ask because my late parents-in-law had a Jack Russell for many years and while they took her out for walks morning and night, Lady also used to ask to go out in the garden when she needed to go. The walks were for exercise and as far as I know they didn't worry about whether she went to the toilet along the way or not. They were retired so there was usually someone home to let her out, of course it would be different if you're both working.
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Old 30.05.2013, 13:50
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

Yes, we have a good relationship with her previous owner but they didn't really have a routine. She was in the house with her sister, mum and dad and 2 cats and a sick husband and so they were walked once a day when the day was home from work and other than that they went out in the garden or in their tray. We live on the 3rd floor and so I would love her to do her business on her walks so we don't have the panic run downstairs! The good thing is that I don't work so I have lots of time for her and can keep an eye on her until she works it out. She's quite bright so I hope she does!

I think I'm making it sound like she is a nightmare which she isn't. She is a lovely funny, playful doggy who has adjusted really well so far IMO. It's useful to hear other people's experiences so you know what's normal when you are up all night!

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Another thought, have you checked with the people you got her from what her previous "normal times" were. It may be she's asking at the "right" time for her at present. If their routine is very much different from yours that might be playing a part.

Do you particularly feel the need for her to have to go when she's out walking? I just ask because my late parents-in-law had a Jack Russell for many years and while they took her out for walks morning and night, Lady also used to ask to go out in the garden when she needed to go. The walks were for exercise and as far as I know they didn't worry about whether she went to the toilet along the way or not. They were retired so there was usually someone home to let her out, of course it would be different if you're both working.
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Old 30.05.2013, 13:58
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

I have a lurcher, and when I first got him, it was a nightmare to get him out of the house, especially in winter, to get him to go for a pee.

I have literally had to drag his bed to the door with him in it, (big dog), and lift him into the standing position, all 30kgs of him, to get him out of the door, point blank refusal on his part to go out.

Key is persistance. Eventually got to take him out every half hour in the beginning, in the hope to get him to catch on quicker, and when he did a wee outside made a big fuss lots of noise and strange looks from passers by but it pays off, he caught on pretty quick after that. However, when it rains he still is reluctant and now hes 13.

Good luck
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Old 30.05.2013, 13:59
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

Then that's her "norm" for now. But I'm sure she'll get the message soon if you follow the excellent advice from the dog owners here.
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Old 30.05.2013, 14:16
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

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...
That's when you have to begin to raise your voice sharply, and sternly say "NO"..... not like "No" I don't want fries with that, I mean when your sixteen year old daughter is about to walk out the door with a boy with a motorcyle "NO"...
I am saving this for future reference. Great way to explain the concept.
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Old 30.05.2013, 14:50
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

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Well said
Our dog teacher (we have a boxer) once told us that a dog can associate to something as long as for 3 seconds.
........ Do you have a Boxer or a Goldfish?


What exactly did you mean by "associate to something for as long as 3 seconds"?

Do you mean that the act of "positive reinforcement" should last for at least 3 seconds? (which I assume you meant)

or that after 3 seconds the dog feels good, but can't remember why?
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Old 30.05.2013, 15:04
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Re: New dog with toilet habits all over the place

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........ Do you have a Boxer or a Goldfish?


What exactly did you mean by "associate to something for as long as 3 seconds"?

Do you mean that the act of "positive reinforcement" should last for at least 3 seconds? (which I assume you meant)

or that after 3 seconds the dog feels good, but can't remember why?
Yeah it sounds a 3 second attention span, or only remembers for 3 seconds?

I do not believe either to be true though.
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