Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Pet corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07.02.2008, 15:33
Javo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 190
Groaned at 65 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 15 Posts
Javo has annoyed a few people around hereJavo has annoyed a few people around here
Dog Breeding in Switzerland

I was wondering if anyone had experience in dog breeding in switzerland or even buying a puppy. i heard its almost illegal and very costly, and many people go to hungry to buy dogs. plus puppies dont sell for much chf.

anyway ive been wanting to breed my dog. however its i have never seen a dog of the same breed here, ok once at the airport but ironically he was from the same home town as me Los Angeles. is there some sort of network for purebred studs? i only found one swiss vizsla site but it was all in german.

and if my dog has an AKC (american kennel club) certificate is that enough to call my dog a purebred here in switzerland? also anyone know the restrictions and laws for a one time dog breeder?

oh and if anyone knows someone that has a vizsla male let me know please.
Attached Thumbnails
dog-breeding-switzerland-img_1462small.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07.02.2008, 20:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: na
Posts: 11,170
Groaned at 36 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 26,504 Times in 8,182 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dog Breeding in Switzerland

In the interest of full disclosure...

... I spend my life with rescue dogs. And guess what - most of the dogs coming through the rescue I volunteer with are pedigreed, pure breed dogs. Many are dogs who were bred by either naive individuals who didn't know what they were doing, or greedy unethical scum who had no thought for the poor dog's welfare. In short, we do what we can to help clean up the mess left behind by irresponsible breeding. Far more dogs are born every year than there are homes available for them. And everyday, beautiful dogs die - because there is no where for them to go.

Switzerland, as the rest of the world, faces a serious dog overpopulation crisis.

Just so you know where I'm coming from.

Dog breeding is not something to enter into lightly. Forgive me if I have the wrong end of the stick, but your comment about looking for a mate leads me to believe that you are not experienced. First and foremost, you need to understand how the the breed club and the SKG (the Swiss version of the AKC, under the FCI umbrella) regulates breeding.

Not being a breeder (quite the opposite!) I can only give you a summary of the process. (Any of you who are involved in SKG stuff, please correct me if I've misunderstood.) As I understand it, you would have to join the Swiss Vizsla club and the SKG, present your dog's AKC pedigree for acceptance. Then I believe (at least this is how the two clubs I know work) your dog must go through Ankörung, a process where he or she is judged by the club's breed experts for conformation, temperament, and health. You have to present all the requisite health certificates (some breeds require different tests). Only dogs who pass the Ankörung are endorsed for breeding. If your dog is not Angekört and you choose to breed outside the club, the offspring will not be SKG eligible. Typically your dog should have some kind of championship or title behind him/her before you would even think about breeding.

You also should be well conversant in your breed's genetics. This is a tricky subject and requires serious study. And experience.

Each breed club has rules as to when and how breeding is done, how the puppies can be registered, how the pups must be cared for and socialized, etc. Breeding, when done correctly with an eye for the welfare of the breed and the well-being of your dog and his/her offspring, is a very time consuming process and a very expensive hobby. An ethical breeder would have a list of potential buyers lined up well before he/she even thinks of producing a litter.

An ethical breeder remains morally responsible for the dogs he/she produced throughout the dog's lifetime. You have a duty of care to carefully screen and vet any potential buyer, and should a buyer be unable to care for the dog you sold him at any point you should be willing to take the dog back. Most sales contracts specify this.

If you are serious about breeding, you should first join the Vizsla club. Get involved with their activities. Try her in the Ausstellung circuit, try her in working trials. Learn about breeding from the SKG experts. Let them decide if your dog is fit to breed.

Breeding should only be done by experts FOR THE GOOD OF THE BREED.

----
One of the dogs curled up at my feet is MDR1-/-, a serious genetic abnormality; his parents were carriers and should never have been bred. Another suffers from von Willebrands, a genetic clotting disorder; her parents should been tested and excluded from breeding. A third is blind, thanks to CEA, yet another genetic disorder; again, his parents should never have been used for breeding.

These dogs are all victims of irresponsible breeders.
----

I have the utmost respect for ethical, knowledgeable, responsible, experienced FCI breeders, who are working to improve the health and temperament of their breed, who are dedicated to their dogs, and who do their utmost to find the perfect homes for their dog's offspring.

And I have the utmost contempt for anyone who breeds irresponsibly.

Which, judging by the numbers I see coming into rescue, is far too many.

So... before you even think about breeding your dog, do your research. Do a lot of research. And some soul searching as well. Your dog certainly is very beautiful - but is that a good enough reason to breed from her?

'Cause those of us who volunteer with already overflowing rescues certainly don't want to be tearing our hair out yet again, looking for homes for yet another litter of unwanted puppies.

If you do decide that breeding is the right thing for your dog, please do so responsibly and ethically within the SKG regulations.

----

Might I also suggest that you get involved with a Vizsla - or any other - rescue group as well? Help is always needed...

----

Hope you make the right decision for your lovely dog.

Last edited by meloncollie; 08.02.2008 at 03:08. Reason: spelling, pontificating :-)
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 18.02.2008, 18:31
Javo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 190
Groaned at 65 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 15 Posts
Javo has annoyed a few people around hereJavo has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Dog Breeding in Switzerland

thanks for your detailed reply. your dedication to rescuing dogs is a great thing. much respect to you.

just to answer you. i have done a lot of volunteer work in the US working with rescues and shelters, even work on a dog magazine -dogslifemagazine.com. one thing that i learned over the years, is that there is no 100% correct way with dealing with dogs or their owners.

it is true i have little experience, however everyone must begin somewhere otherwise their would be no experts. as for the responsibility questions: i have to say you ask all the right ones. and the answer is yes for all of them... testing, potential owner list, dedication, etc...

anyway, i did want to share that i have learned about the dangers of rescues/neutering/mix breeding etc. "for every action their is a reaction." most activists fail to see past their own gloating. and a lot of them
are actually doing more harm than good. i dont think this is you at all, you seem to ask the right questions, but im just pointed it out, keep your mind open. because the way you worded a few questions sounds like you've seen one too many rescue horror stories, that your getting immune to good owners... if you've done a lot of rescuing youll know what i mean...

anymore advice? i really am interested as, i want to be as responsible as possible, and i am new to the whole swiss culture - of pet owning...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20.03.2008, 23:09
swiss_in_training's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,350
Groaned at 19 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,392 Times in 606 Posts
swiss_in_training has a reputation beyond reputeswiss_in_training has a reputation beyond reputeswiss_in_training has a reputation beyond reputeswiss_in_training has a reputation beyond reputeswiss_in_training has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dog Breeding in Switzerland

Hi Javo,

First, I am also against dog breeding.

However, if you do choose to breed your dog, you should know that the AKC certificate is not enough in Switzerland. Dog breeders are more informed here than in the US, and generally require specific medical exams to determine whether your dog suffers from defects common in her breed. In the case of Vizla's, one of the big issues is hip problems, so any reputable Vizla breeder will require X-rays of your dog's hips. There may be more tests, but I don't know what they'd be.

If you really want to do this, I would suggest talking to your veterinarian, who will probably know more.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08.09.2009, 14:30
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dog Breeding in Switzerland

Melloncollie, another excellent post. Not sure why the thanks button is not working!

OP, no dog breeding experience for me but I bought a puppy from a Swiss breeder here earlier this year. Here's my experience:

It was a long wait. I knew which breed I wanted and there are only 4 breeders in the whole of Switzerland registered with SKG and there was a long waiting list. One breeder already had waiting lists for her next 3 litters (and she only breeds twice a year). Also, its a very tight community. Breeders were happy to recommend each other if they had no puppies available because they know that their fellow breeders adhere to the strict breedings standards set by SKG. Prices are also exactly the same across all breeders which showed me that the dogs are not exactly bred for profit but for the love of the breed.

I was grilled extensively about my lifestyle. Questions like: Who is at home with the puppy? Are there any children? Do you have experience owning this breed? If not, why this breed? Do you have experience with dogs? Are you an active person? Why do you want a dog?

The list goes on.

One of them even refused to entertain me because I wasnt fluent in German. She said that I will not be able to understand her instructions fully as well as not being able to attend doggie classes in English.

It was disappointing but I totally understand where she was coming from. I probably would have done the same if I was in her shoes.

Then I got a call from my breeder and before I could even meet the pups, she came over to my house for a so called inspection (!?). Again, she grilled me more on lifestyle, asked me where the dog will sleep, eat, poo, checked out the environment near the house (possible walking trails etc) -- basically wanted to know how her pup was going to live --before finally allowing me to meet the pups.

Once we've decided on which pup, she brought the pup over for a visit before his big move-in to let him have a sniff around and leave his scent. Pointed out all the possible hazards for me around the house and got me to puppy proof it before his arrival. Her dedication to make sure that my pup will not be too stressed on his first day really was commendable.

On the day we were to pick up the pup, we had a 3 hours handover session. She prepared a folder for us and you will not believe the extensive amount of information in there. From vaccination records, full of care instructions till he is a year old, detailed record of his growth from birth, pictures as a pup, and oh even a letter to him. She showed me his FCI certificate and explained in painstakingly detail what Melloncollie had pointed out in her post about how all her dogs had been screened for possible genetic defects, which I've learnt, is a costly procedure.

I was impressed beyond words and handed the cash over willingly because I know that she did not do it for profit but for her passion for the breed. She also made us sign a contract with a clause that gives her full rights to the dog should we decide to give him up due to unforseen circumstances.

Finally, she gave me permission to ring her at any time of the day, day or night and to promise to bring the dog back when he was 7 months old so that she could see his progress as well as strip his first coat. She was even kind enough to take him once when we were on holiday and couldnt find a suitable sitter then.

My dog's now 10 months old now and we are still in touch from time to time. She told me proudly once that she is still in touch with all the pups who have left her.

To me, that is a responsible breeder through and through. Sorry if its such a long post but I hope this gives you an idea of the level of commitment that comes with breeding a dog here in Switzerland.

__________________
Remember when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown, BUT it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and b****-slap the mother-f***er upside the head.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank summerrain for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 08.09.2009, 14:38
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dog Breeding in Switzerland

Oh %#*!@@!&, I just realised that I've banged out a post for someone who hasnt been online since 23.10.2008 19:04

FAIL!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank summerrain for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 08.09.2009, 15:42
Peg A's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 4,422
Groaned at 158 Times in 125 Posts
Thanked 5,428 Times in 2,510 Posts
Peg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dog Breeding in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Oh %#*!@@!&, I just realised that I've banged out a post for someone who hasnt been online since 23.10.2008 19:04

FAIL!

Aww, Summerrain, please don't take it as a fail as actually, the information you've provided is fantastic and something quite useful to folks who are looking to get a dog from a breeder.

I'm on the fence a bit about when and where to get my next dog (and what is entailed... if you can pardon the pun ).

Also, I still feel guilt over leaving my dog behind with my mother when I came but as my gal is getting on in her years (she's Rhodesian Ridgeback / Greyhound mix and now going on 11yrs old) I am quite afraid that she wouldn't make the flight very well. I think I made the best decision but I miss her so.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08.09.2009, 17:05
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dog Breeding in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Aww, Summerrain, please don't take it as a fail as actually, the information you've provided is fantastic and something quite useful to folks who are looking to get a dog from a breeder.

I'm on the fence a bit about when and where to get my next dog (and what is entailed... if you can pardon the pun ).

Also, I still feel guilt over leaving my dog behind with my mother when I came but as my gal is getting on in her years (she's Rhodesian Ridgeback / Greyhound mix and now going on 11yrs old) I am quite afraid that she wouldn't make the flight very well. I think I made the best decision but I miss her so.
Cheers PegA. Yes, hopefully it will be useful for someone in the future.
I can empathise about how you feeling about leaving your dog behind. I used to have an Australian terrier and the hardest thing was leaving her behind when we were given the opportunity to relocate. She was almost 18 then and no vet in their right mind would certify her fit to travel. Sadly, she passed away not long after we left.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08.09.2009, 18:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: na
Posts: 11,170
Groaned at 36 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 26,504 Times in 8,182 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dog Breeding in Switzerland

Thanks for the great post, Summerrain!

Now, that is exactly how dogs should be bred - with health and temperament paramount, with carefully screening of potential homes, and a lifelong commitment given to their puppies. I'm really pleased to hear that such high standards are set, and adhered to. My respect to your breeder!

I re-read my earlier post with a great deal of sadness - in the 18 months since I wrote that, the three dogs I mentioned have died. Two made it to a good age; although the genetic conditions from which they suffered were not the actual cause of death, those conditions certainly affected their quality of life, and in the case of my MDR1-/- boy, greatly complicated his medical treatment. My little girl with vWD died far, far too young.

So, can I just say it again...

Before one thinks of breeding, please please please - understand the genetic problems to which your breed may be prone, and please please please - research the lines and test the prospective parents for all known disorders.

One should breed for one reason alone - for the love of the dogs. And that means ensuring that the puppies are physically and mentally healthy, and have been given the best possible start in life - and are then given to people who one knows will love them and properly care for them their entire lives.

Got to go hug a mutt or two now...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08.09.2009, 18:29
Peg A's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 4,422
Groaned at 158 Times in 125 Posts
Thanked 5,428 Times in 2,510 Posts
Peg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dog Breeding in Switzerland

I'm sorry about your dogs Summerrain and Meloncollie!

I have some questions for both but have to make some decisions before I'm ready for the sort of questions (Argus has gotten me to thinking about the blindhundschule) that are percolating.


Meanwhile, hopefully the OP, wherever s/he is either found a nice gent for his gal or got her spayed as I am given to understand that un-spayed, un-bred dogs tend to have issues with cancer (ovarian and uterine) much the same way that humans do?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08.09.2009, 19:26
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dog Breeding in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I am given to understand that un-spayed, un-bred dogs tend to have issues with cancer (ovarian and uterine) much the same way that humans do?
Mmm, spaying or castrating your dog is an individual decision. I've heard not nice comments from other people with regards to my recent decision to neuter my dog but I dont really give a rat's bottom.

There are advantages behavioural and health wise for having your dog neutered but leaving them entire doesnt mean that they will definitely suffer health problems - hence my point about it being an individual decision. I dont think less of people who dont.

But yes, I neutered my dog mainly because I want to prevent future health problems in that respect. Its a case of rather-be-safe-than-sorry -- much to my husband's dismay and protests.

Afterall, I dont have any plans to breed him etc. With regards to behaviour, I see not much of a change. Still playful and cheeky, but he was never aggressive or territorial to begin with..

People also tend to neuter their dogs to calm them down but mine's still as boisterious as ever (though nothing a good run or long walk wont fix).
I have to say though, he has since decrease his markings outside and stopped humping my husband and his bed.
__________________
Remember when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown, BUT it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and b****-slap the mother-f***er upside the head.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dog dogs




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dog parks in Switzerland Javo Pet corner 16 14.06.2011 11:16
Dog Breeders in Switzerland Cat Pet corner 30 23.07.2008 17:45
Looking to adopt a dog bobzimmy Other/general 2 05.07.2007 18:41
Exporting Pets (dog) out of Switzerland Oz12 Transportation/driving 1 15.03.2007 14:26
Pets - Breeds, breeding, adoption, etc. Kittster General off-topic 11 06.01.2007 17:29


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0