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  #61  
Old 15.06.2007, 15:39
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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The commentary period for both proposals will run until 15 September 2007.
Whats the commentary period?
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  #62  
Old 16.06.2007, 00:49
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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Whats the commentary period?
More or less, this is the time set to discuss/debate the proposals before further action is taken.

In German, Vernehmlassungen.
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  #63  
Old 18.06.2007, 17:30
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

Update 18 June:

Geneva voters have approved very restrictive measures.

http://www.nzz.ch/2007/06/18/eng/article7937018.html

All dog owners will have to complete obedience course, and dog walkers will need a license.

Owners of breeds now on the dangerous list will be required to obtain a permit to keep their dogs, will have to complete obedience courses, they must be able to prove that the animal comes from an approved breeder, dogs must be sterilized, and only one such dog will be allowed per household. Listed breeds must be muzzled at all times in public.

From the Geneva cantonal website, a list of the breed considered as 'dangerous' can be found here:

http://etat.geneve.ch/dt/SilverpeasWebFileServer/Liste_des_races_dites_d_attaque_-_Canton_de_GE_.pdf?ComponentId=kmelia193&SourceFil e=1170174109383.pdf&MimeType=application/pdf&Directory=Attachment/Images/&logicalName=Liste%20des%20races%20dites%20d'attaq ue%20-%20Canton%20de%20GE%20.pdf

(Edit - oops... link too long. Sorry, I don't know how to fix that...)


---


What the NZZ article does not say is: What happens to dogs currently living in Geneva that are not FCI pedigrees? What happens to families with more than one dog of the listed breeds? Will they be grandfathered, put through some kind of testing to determine their fate, or will they be euthanized?

Fribourg is planning to introduce a ban on 'dangerous' dogs in July, and similar restrictions are being considered in Bern and ZH.

---

And a reminder - collection of signatures for the Hunde-Online petition against the WBK proposals for the federal law runs through the end of August.
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  #64  
Old 18.06.2007, 20:51
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

This is all very confusing to me and I'm wondering if I should take the route of a previous poster and just not bring my dog to Geneva.

I'm moving to Geneva in Sept with my little dog (Toy Fox Terrier - not on one of the dangerous breed lists as far as I know). He's 6 years old. We've done obedience classes when he was a puppy here in the US. Am I going to have to take him to an obedience class in Geneva or should I try to find some sort of proof that he took a class here? I can't imagine trying to take a class (probably in French) in addition to everything else we'll have to do as soon as we arrive.

Also, a little off topic but the regulations for bringing a dog into Switzerland are changing as of July 1, 2007. The overall process stays the same but the forms are different and now all say "European Union" on them. Did I miss something? Did Switzerland join the EU?
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  #65  
Old 18.06.2007, 21:03
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

I've got the text of law in front of me and it states that the course has to be one recognised by the dept so I'm not sure about foreign documents on that. I'll have a word with my sister, she has a dog.
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  #66  
Old 18.06.2007, 21:15
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

The other question is - I assume the way to enforce this is to require proof of obedience course for a license? Good lord, for a "dog friendly" country it is becoming more and more difficult to figure out how to legally get a dog there.

Does anyone know who I could ask about the impacts of this new legislation? Should I contact the FVO? Who would know the "official" answer? Because frankly, if I have to figure out how to take an obedience course in Geneva I may try to find a family member to take my little guy for the two years we plan to be there. This might be the straw to break the camel's back. I'm already worried he'll be put to death if he so much as looks at a child or barks at another dog!
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  #67  
Old 19.06.2007, 00:37
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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Does anyone know who I could ask about the impacts of this new legislation? Should I contact the FVO? Who would know the "official" answer?
Your first contact should probably be the cantonal veterinary office:

Office vétérinaire cantonal -
Chemin du Pont-du centenaire 109 -
1228 Plan-les-Ouates -
Tel 022 388 71 60 - Fax 022 388 71 61

http://etat.geneve.ch/dt/site/agricu...ia321&nodeId=0


I don't know when this new law is supposed to take force. Much like the proposed federal law, there seem to be so many details that have yet to be addressed.

From a Tribune de Geneve article, (and dusting off my very rusty French) it seems that the course -for owners of dogs not on the 'dangerous' list - is a ownership responsibility course and a theory test, rather than a training/obedience/character test of the dog.


http://www.tdg.ch/pages/home/tribune...contenu)/94336

(In English)

http://www.tdg.ch/pages/home/tribune...contenu)/93907

http://www.tdg.ch/pages/home/tribune...contenu)/94162

(In French)

Your dog would not be on the dangerous list, so you should be able to import him. I'd get confirmation of that from the cantonal vet, though, just to be on the safe side.

If Geneva proves too difficult for your dog, would living in France a possiblity for you? (France has BSL too, but I think your dog would be in the clear... however I'm going on my recollection of the French law and a few border crossings; you would want to check that out for yourself, as well as talk to dog owners there. )

I hope you are able to bring your dog here - I know how much it meant to have my mutts with me whenever I had to pick up and move to a new country. (Besides, we need more shoe-wearing doggies here! )

Last edited by meloncollie; 19.06.2007 at 01:26. Reason: clarification
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  #68  
Old 19.06.2007, 01:18
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

Thanks so much for posting this article. It looks like it is more of a "how to be a responsible dog owner" class based on that article:

"New owners of other breeds will also be required to follow a two-hour course, with tests, to inform them of their rights and obligations. The aim of this course is to reduce the volume of dog droppings on sidewalks and to minimize cases of animal maltreatment."

And since it says "new owners" I'm not sure this would apply to me anyway, unless I count for being "new" in Geneva. And I always pick up droppings and my little guy is probably treated TOO well, truth be told so I don't think I'll have a problem passing the test from this class.

I'm definitely going to called the Cantonal Vet office just to be sure - thanks for posting the contact info.

And sorry for my last dramatic post - this now doesn't seem like that big of hoop to jump through, particularly compared to the other innumerable hoops just to get an apartment!
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Old 19.06.2007, 01:26
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

P.S. I did want to mention that even though this doesn't seem like it will affect me as much as I thought or as much as others, I do find the whole BSL and this type of law disturbing and feel for other dog owners who have bigger (and thereby apparently more dangerous) little ones in their lives.

Nothing wrong with "how to be a responsible dog owner classes" though. I think the same should be required prior to becoming a parent to human children as well!
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Old 19.06.2007, 10:08
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

The authorities are keen to state that they are not pushing BSL; rather a more vague Type-Specific Legislation. Oh yes.

I have two Amstaffs which have no pedigree papers as they are rescue dogs. Judging by what Geneva's doing, I might have an issue. But I would have the backing of my vet, for sure. He knows the dogs.

Also my larger dog at 35kg surely can't be Amstaff (according to the PDF link above). But he's certainly not APBT as he's the wrong shape.

Maybe when the day comes, blood work is in order. They could be a right pair of mongers
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Old 02.07.2007, 18:08
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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Neither of my dogs has a pedigree certificate but it's quite apparent that both are American Staffordshire Terriers - on the list of 13 "banned" breeds and on the muzzle list of quite a few cantons.

I do actually wonder how they could prove my dogs are this type, though, with no certification? I did register them as Amstaff with ANIS but frankly I could have chosen something else....

Thankfully, just before the muzzle ruling came into effect, I left Zurich. How could I explain to my puppies that they'd have to wear a muzzle and look fierce?

The one I got from the rescue centre two years ago would have a fit every time I fitted it too - but they don't legislate as well against the ******* ***** who beat the dog, used food as a lure so that he could beat the dog and generally beat the dog out of the dog. He's actually still scared of people and the manager of the rescue centre only let us have him because we had a similar dog and we understood the complications that might occur.

Hello, I am a newbie here, so pls excuse any errors using this forum.

IMHO, it's a disaster when a country starts to legislate against certain breeds. Always a question of "punish the deed, not the breed".
Usually instigated by people who know very little about dogs and what makes them tick.

And concerning dogs, size is not really relevant.

I have had Gt Danes now for over 35 years (OK I'm not 20 any more) and have had many rescues, which I turn around into being 1st class K9 citizens.

Most of the problems lays with people's ignorance, over the welfare and needs of a dog.
I can assure you that if a Gt Dane, doesn't get a minimum of attention and then gets disruptive, it is a problem, but why blame the dog??

Also, over the last years, with the increase of giving dogs commercials foods, with plenty of chemicals etc., they do suffer and their behaviour does suffer too. It's is a little similar to that of disruptive children; change their diet and their behaviour changes too.

All in all it is heartbreaking to see CH going this way..............


As to your bree, a good freiend of mine, rescued a crossStaffie nearly a year ago. That dog was quite aggressive ebcuase it had been very badly handled/beaten..........he now too is an excellent K9 citizen, does obedience, agiglity etc.
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  #72  
Old 04.07.2007, 01:18
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

Update from 3 July 2007:

Kanton Freiburg has implemented restrictive BSL:

http://www.espace.ch/artikel_391336.html

http://admin.fr.ch/ww/de/pub/aktuell...il&prid=74216&

(click on 'communiqué de presse adoption ODCh 27062007_d.doc' for a pdf file with more details)

As of 1 July, one will need to obtain a permit to own any of the following breeds in Freiburg:

American Staffordshire Terrier, Bull Terrier, Cane Corso Italiano (Italienische Dogge), Dobermann, Dogo Argentino (Argentinische Dogge), Dogo Canario (Kanarische Dogge), Fila Brasileiro, Mastiff; Mastín Español (Spanischer Mastiff), Mastino Napoletano (Napoletanischer Mastiff), Rottweiler, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Tosa.

(This list is not definitive; the Staatsrat may add breeds to it, or take breeds off, as it sees fit. Bite statistics could influence any changes to the list - for instance, German and Belgian shepherds may at some time go on the list.)

Ownership of pitbulls, pitbull crosses, and mixed breed dogs that are crossed with any of the listed breeds is banned from 1 July 2007. Owners of dogs in this category which were obtained before 1 July 2007 must report the dogs to the Vererinäramt (cantonal veterinary office) by 1 October 2007. It will be decided on a case by cases basis if a special permit will be issued. Dogs granted permits must be sterilized, microchipped and kept on lead.

And... One will also need a permit to own more than two dogs of any breed/cross.


In related news, 20 Minutes reports that Hunde-Online has so far gathered 15,000 signatures protesting the proposed federal legislation.

The petition drive runs through the end of August; please consider signing (petitions are available on the Hunde-Online website at www.hunde-online.ch) if you haven't done so already. Anyone who is resident in Switzerland (not just citizens) is eligible to sign.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, all dogs in Switzerland will be affected by this legislation. If this passes, those of you who own a knee-high sized dog may well find that you will have to obtain a permit to keep your pooch.

Last edited by meloncollie; 04.07.2007 at 02:18. Reason: clarification
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  #73  
Old 09.07.2007, 11:42
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

Meloncollie,

Thank you very much for your research and updates regarding this draconian measure. I am shocked and saddened at all that I am reading, this is like a bad dream. I have decided to post pone my move to Switzerland because there is no way I am going to subject my Belgian Shepherd (they call him Ghandi for a reason!) to a ridiculous test designed to fail him from the start. I mean, what dog would not defend itself from a perfect stranger threatening him? This is insanity! Anyway, I am very grateful for all your hard work in keeping everyone informed. I am not sure what will happen, I am hoping that intellect will prevail and the proposal for BSL will be overturned. If this gets passed, I fear for the entire culture of Switzerland, it will not be the little slice of heaven that we all thought it was.

I will light candles and think about all your dog owners out there in Switzerland, it is just heartbreaking to think they could entertain this legislation, based on so much flawed data. I will pass this information on to all the Swiss people I know here in Spain so they can sign the petition (there are plenty Swiss living here, and by the way, they think I am crazy to want to live there! huh!, maybe they know something I dont).

I know its a great country to live for most people, but if you are a dog lover, this is seriously undermining our definition of "quality of living".

Best wishes,
Canine counselor.

PS> wouldnt mind pm to continue the discussion, also have made dogs my life and also from Chicago
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Old 09.07.2007, 13:26
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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Meloncollie,


I will light candles and think about all your dog owners out there in Switzerland, it is just heartbreaking to think they could entertain this legislation, based on so much flawed data. I will pass this information on to all the Swiss people I know here in Spain so they can sign the petition (there are plenty Swiss living here, and by the way, they think I am crazy to want to live there! huh!, maybe they know something I dont).

I know its a great country to live for most people, but if you are a dog lover, this is seriously undermining our definition of "quality of living".

Best wishes,
Canine counselor.

PS> wouldnt mind pm to continue the discussion, also have made dogs my life and also from Chicago

Hello Canine Counselor,

Agree it is very sad indeed what is happening in CH and to just even to consider the possible implementation of the proposed Federal Law makes me shudder.

It would indeed be very sad.

As a dog lover, perhaps you could also help with the Galgos in Spain?

http://www.passionlevriers.com/accueil_anglais.htm

Ghandi sounds wonderful

Good luck
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Old 09.07.2007, 16:31
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

Hi
As you may have guessed, I am deeply involved in my local community here for 7.5 years, from the day I arrived. Its just what I do. The history and culture of the Spanish is multi-faceted, which is important when trying to educate the locals about cruelty. I have volunteered with several organisations here, and now work independently in rescue, often shipping strays out of the country to great homes throughout the EU. I began my work with dogs in 1990, when I learned about respect for animals. We definitely have our share of issues here in Spain, with dogs hanging in trees when the hunters are done with them at the end of the season (yes, this is true) and the massive amount of pitbulls being used for fighting, sometimes even the local police or government officals are invovled. The amount of poisonings is very hard to fathom, each summer especially, dogs are baited and trapped, many of them in their own private gardens, there are too many dog haters here. Dogs go missing all the time, but only the little ones, and many of us know why. However, the situation has really improved thanks to the expat community, with which I am very much involved. I blame the government for not having done more with education, but so it goes in all the countries. I had visions of remaining in contact with my local team of rescue volunteers, and finding good homes in Switzerland. (The amount of abandoned dogs down here is epidemic). But now I can see there are too many problems over dogs in Switzerland as well, although of a different kind.

I read an article about the Swiss eating dogs, is this for real? The more I research, the stranger Switzerland becomes. I am shocked, and somewhat dubious about this, it just seems impossible that a country with such a world class reputation could still practice this. Apparently it is not against the law to eat cats and dogs, only to sell them. I am sorry I do not have a link to support this. Or, when I get back home I can find the article and post it here (I am travelling at the minute). But then, I suppose I already know how false reputations can be, especially when it comes to dangerous breeds, which do not physically exist. I can explain that later, if people wouldnt mind my indulgence. I am deeply concerned over the general attitude about dogs that seems to be growing out of proportion here in the EU, and now apparently in Switzerland. I say educate, then legislate. I am very sad that I have given up my desire to live there, it is truly a heart break for me. I have planned nearly every stage of the move, have already packed my house, and have already found an apartment and good job leads. I have already found CDs on speaking Swiss German. Maybe someday this will simmer down, and I will keep my eye on this for sure. But until then, I would never risk my boy´s life knowing the consequences of failing a temperament test. I am sure he would fail, rightly so. I cannot deem him to be aggressive for defending himself against an attack by a perfect stranger. Good luck to all of you!

Last edited by caninecounselor; 15.09.2007 at 20:20. Reason: newer research updates
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Old 12.07.2007, 10:46
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

My Dog lives with two cats who think that it is their mother !
Which causes a problem as the cats are not afraid of other dogs
and i get so annoyed with alot of the people here who never have their big dogs on a lead .Surely that is against the law ?
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Old 12.07.2007, 11:55
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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and i get so annoyed with alot of the people here who never have their big dogs on a lead .Surely that is against the law ?
Why should it be a law, and what constitutes a big dog..and why a big dog over a small dog or all dogs?
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Old 12.07.2007, 12:00
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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Why should it be a law, and what constitutes a big dog..and why a big dog over a small dog or all dogs?
I can just imagine the Leash Police running around with doggie scales whilst owners with dogs on the weight borderline forcing their dogs to pee and poop as soon as the scale-sporting rozzer comes into view...

"Fido, Fido - drop 800g now!"
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Old 12.07.2007, 16:29
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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My Dog lives with two cats who think that it is their mother !
Which causes a problem as the cats are not afraid of other dogs
and i get so annoyed with alot of the people here who never have their big dogs on a lead .Surely that is against the law ?

What point are you trying to make here?
don't understand ???

Now IF and I say IF a dog chases a cat, you would be much better of with a larger dog as he more or less is a little less agile or fast that the smaller dogs...............but I doubt that this is the point you are trying to make.

it is excellent that your cat + dog get on some well.............but am confused what it had to do with keeping big dogs on leads
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Old 29.07.2007, 14:17
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

More worrying news!

see:

http://www.dogpolitics.com/my_weblog...ned_.html#more
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