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Old 19.09.2016, 21:51
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SKN - abolished

http://mobile2.bazonline.ch/articles...5c370be0000001

Looks like the end of the SKN

In brief: 20 percent of dog owners did not take any classes. Research has shown that behavior of dog did not differ between those who took classes and those who did not take them. Government in Berne wanted to keep courses mandatory but parlament decided against them. So they will get rid of them completely.
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Old 19.09.2016, 23:40
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Re: SKN - abolished

Saw that as well - on the one hand I think that this'll stop the SKN critics complaining about the "useless" course, on the other it might unfortunately serve as an incentive to not take one's dogs to puppy school etc. - courses which are incredibly important for dog owners to learn how to deal with their dogs in everyday situations - and rare emergencies as well.

Mods - perhaps attaching this post to the SKN sticky would be useful?
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Old 19.09.2016, 23:45
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Re: SKN - abolished

I'm saddened by this - yet another opportunity lost.

This whole saga is so typical.

A horrific tragedy, public outcry, witch hunts, political grandstanding, draconian measures proposed... and finally cooler heads prevailed and a milder measures enacted.

A hastily cobbled together plan put into play, the right hand did not know what the left hand was doing, a scramble to get courses up and running, huge sums had to be invested to gain accreditation, total bureaucratic chaos in the roll-out, no clear directives to any of the players involved. Confusion reigned.

Yet out of that typical poorly executed legislation and bureaucratic fumbling a decent program finally emerged. We had a chance to actually make a difference, we were actually starting to see a glimmer of understanding among dog owners that they actually had to take some responsibility.

But with no oversight, no consequence for non-compliance of course the scofflaws refused to take the course. An honor system only works among honorable people.

It's a shame that even this easy, inexpensive course was too much for 20% of Swiss dog owners. As usual the irresponsible minority ruin it for the rest of us.

Before all y'all scofflaws start rejoicing - what this likely means is confirmation of the widely held view that dog owners cannot be trusted to do the right thing, that improvement is not possible. So the next tragedy likely means that the real draconian measures may be put into force.

What a wasted opportunity. But I am not surprised. So very typical.
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Old 19.09.2016, 23:52
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Re: SKN - abolished

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Mods - perhaps attaching this post to the SKN sticky would be useful?
It would make more sense to delete the SKN thread, along with the 'Requirements for dog care providers' one - as I would guess those requirements might fall by the wayside as well, at least for casual sitters.

No sense in outdated information left to clutter the forum and confuse newbies. People rarely look at updates or post dates, I wouldn't want someone making decisions based on information that is no longer relevant.
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Old 20.09.2016, 00:00
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Re: SKN - abolished

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It would make more sense to delete the SKN thread, along with the 'Requirements for dog care providers' one - as I would guess those requirements might fall by the wayside as well, at least for casual sitters.
Unfortunate that all info given becomes obsolete now - but indeed, on second thought, it seems sensible to delete.

Perhaps a (new?) sticky with info on general dog courses (Welpenkurs, Junghundekurs etc.) and the effects of those courses on dog care/interaction would be helpful to "outline" the current situation and give dog owners a first look into responsible pet care - so that they have something to go to/fall back on before asking detailed questions in new threads.


......

Using "I didn't learn anything in the dog course" as a headline for this news is NOT helpful in getting dog owners to attend courses with their dogs.
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Old 20.09.2016, 00:42
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Re: SKN - abolished

Quote:

Perhaps a (new?) sticky with info on general dog courses (Welpenkurs, Junghundekurs etc.) and the effects of those courses on dog care/interaction would be helpful to "outline" the current situation and give dog owners a first look into responsible pet care - so that they have something to go to/fall back on before asking detailed questions in new threads.
While a very good idea, I fear it would be a yet another waste of time and energy.

No one reads stickies now, as we see from the same questions being asked over and over and over again.

Let's be honest. We could keep on preaching responsible ownership - but we are just preaching to the choir. We are not reaching those who need the message - and now that there is no requirement to do even four days of training, I fear it's a lost cause.

We have seen time and time again that 'moral suasion' means absolutely nothing in Switzerland. If compliance with a federal law was not enough to convince Swiss dog owners - let alone my fellow blöde Ausländer - to do the right thing, there is no hope.

I would expect that each canton will do it's own thing now, as per usual. Those that have training requirements above and beyond the SKN may or may not reevaluate their laws, time will tell.
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Old 20.09.2016, 08:40
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Re: SKN - abolished

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http://mobile2.bazonline.ch/articles...5c370be0000001

Looks like the end of the SKN

In brief: 20 percent of dog owners did not take any classes. Research has shown that behavior of dog did not differ between those who took classes and those who did not take them. Government in Berne wanted to keep courses mandatory but parlament decided against them. So they will get rid of them completely.
the pet section of this forum will be much less fun
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Old 20.09.2016, 08:52
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Re: SKN - abolished

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I would expect that each canton will do it's own thing now, as per usual. Those that have training requirements above and beyond the SKN may or may not reevaluate their laws, time will tell.
That is exactly what they said on the radio news just now. The cantons will decide what, if any, training will be required for dog owners in future.
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Old 20.09.2016, 09:06
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Re: SKN - abolished

I'm not a dog owner but I've always been impressed at how responsible dog owners are here in Switzerland.

I'd like to think that the SKN courses make a difference to at least some of the people in how they interact with their dogs and, how they and their dogs interact with others.
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Old 20.09.2016, 09:12
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Re: SKN - abolished

I find this so sad. I kept saying that Switzerland was so much advanced in dog ownership. Paying a tax and knowing how to deal with a dog can do wonders to dog owning - the canine irresponsibility is one of the things that I really hate seeing in my home country.

I just find it funny that because 20% didn't do the course they decide to abolish it. I should perhaps call my bank and tell them since I paid 20% of my debt already, the other insignificant 80% should be abolished...
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Old 20.09.2016, 09:21
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Re: SKN - abolished

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I'm not a dog owner but I've always been impressed at how responsible dog owners are here in Switzerland.

I'd like to think that the SKN courses make a difference to at least some of the people in how they interact with their dogs and, how they and their dogs interact with others.
I think the SKN courses were good in the sense that they raised awareness. They were also quite helpful for some first time dog owners in the sense that they were informative, practical, and also established a sort of baseline of rules, as well as a common vocabulary which pointed out that owning a dog was about much more than just loving and feeding the animal.

I attended one about 4 years ago with a friend who had chosen a particularly challenging breed for a first dog. We both learned a great deal (this was the 4th dog for me), and I don't think her dog would have turned out as well behaved as it has without the knowledge she gained from the course.

Another neighbour had a first puppy at the same time and attended the same course and the minimum of training sessions, without any benefit whatsoever. In his case the problem wasn't the dog, or the course. It is quite clear to me that he just shouldn't have a dog. Unfortunately, the next time his dog attacks and injures another it will be the dog that gets punished.
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Old 20.09.2016, 09:35
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Re: SKN - abolished

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It would make more sense to delete the SKN thread, along with the 'Requirements for dog care providers' one - as I would guess those requirements might fall by the wayside as well, at least for casual sitters.

No sense in outdated information left to clutter the forum and confuse newbies. People rarely look at updates or post dates, I wouldn't want someone making decisions based on information that is no longer relevant.
While it may now be outdated, as has been said there's a possibility of individual Cantons deciding that training is required, so some, or a lot, of the information may again be relevant.

So I wouldn't be too hasty in deleting it at the moment.
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Old 20.09.2016, 09:55
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Re: SKN - abolished

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While it may now be outdated, as has been said there's a possibility of individual Cantons deciding that training is required, so some, or a lot, of the information may again be relevant.

So I wouldn't be too hasty in deleting it at the moment.
Surely the most sensible thing to do for the moment would be to add a post at the end of the sticky saying that the SKN requirements are currently being revised and advising people to find out the requirements for their area. A lot of the information could still be relevant in the future.
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Old 20.09.2016, 12:15
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Re: SKN - abolished

And a brief edit at the beginning of the SKN should probably be added as well - as we know most people only read an initial post, do not bother to read to the end of a thread.

I've already added an update to the first post on the 'Dog Care Requirements' thread, simply saying 'stay tuned for more info'.

I can't do the same on the SKN thread as it is closed, so perhaps a mod could do that?
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Old 20.09.2016, 12:41
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Re: SKN - abolished

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And a brief edit at the beginning of the SKN should probably be added as well - as we know most people only read an initial post, do not bother to read to the end of a thread.

I've already added an update to the first post on the 'Dog Care Requirements' thread, simply saying 'stay tuned for more info'.

I can't do the same on the SKN thread as it is closed, so perhaps a mod could do that?
I've re-opened the thread so you can do what you need to do - this is your puppy after all

Just let me know when you've done it, and I'll close if off again
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Old 20.09.2016, 12:48
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Re: SKN - abolished

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I find this so sad. I kept saying that Switzerland was so much advanced in dog ownership. Paying a tax and knowing how to deal with a dog can do wonders to dog owning - the canine irresponsibility is one of the things that I really hate seeing in my home country.

I just find it funny that because 20% didn't do the course they decide to abolish it. I should perhaps call my bank and tell them since I paid 20% of my debt already, the other insignificant 80% should be abolished...
I'm sad that the decision has been made, but not surprised. The SKN was all about learning to respect other people, something too many in this society have forgotten how to do, or even have no understanding of why respect for others is needed.

A huge step backwards - and one that is likely to boomerang back on dog owners, thanks to the irresponsible minority now feeling validated.

If the behavior of some dog owners that I saw on today's walk is any sign of things to come, abolishing the SKN seems to have emboldened the egoistic minority - and I fear that could lead to an escalation of the dog owners vs dog haters conflict. And that is not going to end well.

Indeed a sad day for Swiss dogs.
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Old 20.09.2016, 12:57
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Re: SKN - abolished

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I've re-opened the thread so you can do what you need to do - this is your puppy after all

Just let me know when you've done it, and I'll close if off again
Done and dusted.
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Old 20.09.2016, 13:14
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Re: SKN - abolished

Is the SKN course the 4 mandatory training hours you have to do with every new dog?

For us in French speaking Switzerland is called something else
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Old 20.09.2016, 13:47
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Re: SKN - abolished

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Is the SKN course the 4 mandatory training hours you have to do with every new dog?

For us in French speaking Switzerland is called something else
Yes it is. Both the Practical, done with every dog, and the Theory, done as a first time owner, before acquiring a dog.

I believe in French it's the 'Cours obligatoire d'éducation canine'. Or some such, my French is awful.
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Old 20.09.2016, 13:52
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Re: SKN - abolished

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Yes it is. Both the Practical, done with every dog, and the Theory, done as a first time owner, before acquiring a dog.

I believe in French it's the 'Cours obligatoire d'éducation canine'. Or some such, my French is awful.
Thanks for that. I see why it was abolished. I didnt do the theory because i had dogs before, but i did the practical. It was more of an expensive inconvenience than anything else. I didnt learn anything that i didnt know before and most things are common sense anw.

There are people who need it, thats true, but to be honest, 4 measly lessons are not enough to make somebody a responsible dog owner if they dont want to be
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