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Old 30.03.2017, 12:50
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Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

Hey all,

My wife and I have just been through a strange and pretty upsetting experience, would greatly appreciate your advice and to hear if this type of thing has happened again.

When looking for a kitten around 5-6 weeks ago, we explored the official 'British Shorthair' breeders in Switzerland and got in touch with one in Bern (we live in Zurich). We gave her a call and she was open to us visiting her that day.

We spent some time with her and the kittens, asking the normal questions and finally chose a beautiful female kitten (the litter was about 2-4 weeks old).

The breeder presented me the contract, which I signed. I remember there being alot of different sections, and it was authorised by the official breeding body. Most of the contracts seemed to be to protect her (i.e. I only had 5 days to back out or I would lose my deposit etc.). There was also the usual stuff about her conducting visits to my apartment when she wants to inspect living conditions etc.

She asked us about what we did and we explained our professions, and the fact we both have flexibility and in my wife's case would regularly come home for lunch.

The breeder seemed happy and we signed the Contract, I handed over 500 Fr and she instructed me to pay the remaining 1,500 Fr when I came to collect the kitten on 12th May (once it was eating normal food, using the litter tray etc.)

Since then we've obviously invested in all the necessary equipment needed for an indoor cat (cat tree, toys, litter box, travel accessories) at considerable time and cost.

Out of the blue, we have received an e-mail night before last stating she has decided to withdraw from the contract and has given the kitten to a family with children instead. She cited that she was not confident the kitten would be happy with my wife and I due to the fact we both work (she knew this when we signed the contract). She also said she would return the 500 Fr deposit.

I tried to call her to get some clarification but she was abrupt and put the phone down on me, I even offered she come over to my place to see the lengths we've gone too.

Whilst I appreciate she may have a concern, my issue is the following:
1) Why wait 4-5 weeks to e-mail
2) Why not express the concern, and let us have a chance to explain
3) Why has she assumed, and sold the kitten to someone else

The above seemingly makes no sense to me. My best friend here happens to be a Swiss lawyer, we have requested the contract to investigate precisely what is stipulated in the contract regarding her withdrawal - but I'm pretty sure she wouldn't be so naive as to break the same contract she took painstakingly long to explain to me. However his research concludes that usually the only way they can withdraw is with a 'legitimate concern' backed up by a Cantonal veterinary body.

She did say at the end of the e-mail, that in the future if we were 'better suited' to a kitten, that we could buy from her in the future. Whatever that means....

We're now lumbered with around 1000 Fr of cat stuff, and flights we booked for family members to come later this year to look after her whilst we were on holiday.

Does anyone know what we should do next? I'm not interested in a tit for tat here, but the whole experience doesn't sit right with me and I am wondering if it was a case of someone offering more money due to the strange timing of the e-mail.

Thanks for your help guys!

Last edited by 3Wishes; 30.03.2017 at 14:55. Reason: job titles removed to protect privacy
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Old 30.03.2017, 12:58
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

Why don't you just get another kitten?
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Old 30.03.2017, 13:02
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

Hey, of course that's what we'll end up doing.

But the experience has left a horribly sour taste in our mouth and the niggling conern that the same thing could happen again.

I've asked about getting a copy of the contract, as I would like to know if it really is that easy to just withdraw without some sort of tangible evidence.

Thanks
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Old 30.03.2017, 13:06
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

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Hey, of course that's what we'll end up doing.

But the experience has left a horribly sour taste in our mouth and the niggling conern that the same thing could happen again.

I've asked about getting a copy of the contract, as I would like to know if it really is that easy to just withdraw without some sort of tangible evidence.

Thanks
It's probably a bit of a redundant question but why didn't you take a copy of the contract with you at the time?

The way you describe the experience, it sounds like you were only presented with it during the initial visit which clearly isn't enough time to digest it even in a superficial way.

If you signed your agreement you should be entitled to have a copy.
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Old 30.03.2017, 13:09
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

Does it have to be a pure breed? Why not go round the local animal shelters and give a lonely cat a home.

One thing, and this is just my gut feeling speaking, why the seller has retracted from the contract...is.....when the kitten would've arrived with you it was still very very very young (think toddler in human age) and it would've been left alone during day time, bar lunch breaks of your wife.

Would you leave a kid that age alone all the time?? NO! Even if it is 'just' a cat, it needs at this age stimulation etc and with a family with kids this was given, with you not.

So instead of tit for tat involving solicitors etc, be happy you get your deposit back and if your urge is sooo greeat to have a cat at home, then see to get one that really needs a good home, preferably an older one than just a 3 months old kitten, one which is used to living indoors and will be happy to be left alone for hours on end!
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Old 30.03.2017, 13:44
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

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It's probably a bit of a redundant question but why didn't you take a copy of the contract with you at the time?

The way you describe the experience, it sounds like you were only presented with it during the initial visit which clearly isn't enough time to digest it even in a superficial way.

If you signed your agreement you should be entitled to have a copy.
Spot on, I should have taken a copy at the time - that's pretty amateur of me. I'm going to ask for a copy, if only for my own interest.
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Old 30.03.2017, 13:50
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

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Does it have to be a pure breed? Why not go round the local animal shelters and give a lonely cat a home.

One thing, and this is just my gut feeling speaking, why the seller has retracted from the contract...is.....when the kitten would've arrived with you it was still very very very young (think toddler in human age) and it would've been left alone during day time, bar lunch breaks of your wife.

Would you leave a kid that age alone all the time?? NO! Even if it is 'just' a cat, it needs at this age stimulation etc and with a family with kids this was given, with you not.

So instead of tit for tat involving solicitors etc, be happy you get your deposit back and if your urge is sooo greeat to have a cat at home, then see to get one that really needs a good home, preferably an older one than just a 3 months old kitten, one which is used to living indoors and will be happy to be left alone for hours on end!
I think this is far too easy on the party who broke the contract without giving good reason.

Your points may well be valid (apart from the "be glad you got your deposit back", which would have been blatant theft) - but the breeder had a responsibility to take the contract seriously as well, and all these points were known.

I wouldn't push for a legal settlement, but I would demand a full reason and also consider reporting it to whatever breeders association they are a member of.

The OP is right to be upset by this arbitrary change; imagine if they'd had kids, who would have been even more upset. And they have obviously made an effort to travel to Bern etc.
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Old 30.03.2017, 14:01
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

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Does it have to be a pure breed? Why not go round the local animal shelters and give a lonely cat a home.

One thing, and this is just my gut feeling speaking, why the seller has retracted from the contract...is.....when the kitten would've arrived with you it was still very very very young (think toddler in human age) and it would've been left alone during day time, bar lunch breaks of your wife.

Would you leave a kid that age alone all the time?? NO! Even if it is 'just' a cat, it needs at this age stimulation etc and with a family with kids this was given, with you not.

So instead of tit for tat involving solicitors etc, be happy you get your deposit back and if your urge is sooo greeat to have a cat at home, then see to get one that really needs a good home, preferably an older one than just a 3 months old kitten, one which is used to living indoors and will be happy to be left alone for hours on end!
I fully accept that's some people's PoV. My issue is with the timing and nature of her message; it took 5 weeks for her penny to drop given she was armed with all the facts early on.

I'm actually not bothered about a 'pure breed', I would accept a rescue kitten/young cat and I have kept an eye on the shelter.

Also - I'm not engaging in any type of tit for tat, but if someone is breaking a contract without reasonable grounds then I'm well within my rights to inquire, at least so I'm better informed. I am not involving my lawyer unless she refuses to show me what we signed...the return of my money is the least I expect in such a situation.
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Old 30.03.2017, 14:08
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

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I think this is far too easy on the party who broke the contract without giving good reason.

Your points may well be valid (apart from the "be glad you got your deposit back", which would have been blatant theft) - but the breeder had a responsibility to take the contract seriously as well, and all these points were known.

I wouldn't push for a legal settlement, but I would demand a full reason and also consider reporting it to whatever breeders association they are a member of.

The OP is right to be upset by this arbitrary change; imagine if they'd had kids, who would have been even more upset. And they have obviously made an effort to travel to Bern etc.
Thanks that's my point entirely. The money is the least of what I expect, I'm more upset by how nonchalantly this e-mail was tossed our way without us even having a conversation about it. Regardless by this point we were 'emotionally' invested (and super excited) and had literally rearrange every plan we had made was around this kitten.

Also we've lived in Zurich for nigh on 3.5 years, so we made sure we were fully settled etc. prior to even thinking of a pet.


My intention is not to take any legal action at all (I'm not interested, and the kitten we 'loved' has been given away anyway). But I do intend to make the breeding associated aware of it at least.
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Old 30.03.2017, 14:24
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

How upsetting for you, but it's not the first tale of "odd" BSH breeders I've heard, maybe it's even the same one! I understand your point of view completely, but I also can't help feel that the breeder genuinely felt that the kitten would not be happy with you. Getting two kittens would have been a possible solution and indeed what I would suggest, because, yeah, you plan to go home for lunch but then life happens and unless this is already a standard thing for you to do, it will be a difficult new habit to make.


If you do get a shelter cat, be sure it is already the type of cat that you plan it to be, i.e. indoor or outdoor. While an indoor cat can become an outdoor one (bit risky though, as it hasn't learned all the dangerous stuff), the reverse is cruel and should not be attempted unless kitty has some severe, life-threatening condition that means it has to stay inside.
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Old 30.03.2017, 14:29
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

Is it worth stressing yourself out more on the effort? What would you be trying to achieve ultimately by pursuing further action?


Clearly this lady has already out you through enough drama, I would just take it on the chin as a bad experience and move on.


She probably will end up ignoring all your request anyway if she wasn't serious in the first place.


Unfortunately its a bit of a cruel situation but that's the jest of life.


You will be much happier organizing it through official/recognised authorities you can directly visit yourself.


Eastenders suggested visiting an adoption home rather than buying a "new" cat.


Many people have shared their experiences about how happy they have been doing so (for example LostInBroad)...
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Old 30.03.2017, 14:32
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

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How upsetting for you, but it's not the first tale of "odd" BSH breeders I've heard, maybe it's even the same one! I understand your point of view completely, but I also can't help feel that the breeder genuinely felt that the kitten would not be happy with you. Getting two kittens would have been a possible solution and indeed what I would suggest, because, yeah, you plan to go home for lunch but then life happens and unless this is already a standard thing for you to do, it will be a difficult new habit to make.


If you do get a shelter cat, be sure it is already the type of cat that you plan it to be, i.e. indoor or outdoor. While an indoor cat can become an outdoor one (bit risky though, as it hasn't learned all the dangerous stuff), the reverse is cruel and should not be attempted unless kitty has some severe, life-threatening condition that means it has to stay inside.
Completely agree - I would even be open to 2 kittens...though the cost in this case would have been prohibitive (the cost was decided by her on the spot - her site said 'ab 1500 Fr')

I will continue to explore my options, I do not want to or ever intend to lie to a breeder re. our home arrangements. I just want them to be as open and honest with me as I am with them - it seems she wanted to make a quick sale at the time and then re-considered later on....that's strange business practice.
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Old 30.03.2017, 14:32
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

Turning to the Tier Im Recht Foundation, experts in the legal aspects of animal ownership, including contract issues... this article might be of interest to you:

https://www.tierimrecht.org/de/recht...emacht-werden/

And more articles on issues surrounding the purchase of animals:
https://www.tierimrecht.org/de/recht...ng-von-tieren/

Get a copy of the contract, read it after having browsed the Tier Im Recht site for some legal background based on their online library, if only for your own knowledge going forward.

But as other posters have pointed out, the larger question is, what do you really what to achieve? As always one needs to balance what the law says with the likely practical 'real world' result of any action taken - and with your end goal.

(Also consider 'reputational risk' in that equation. Things shouldn't be this way, certainly - but Switzerland is a small place, folks involved in any one interest group will talk to one another. Are you likely to want to purchase a cat from another breeder in this club? No, in a perfect better world one shouldn't have to roll over and accept an injustice... but TIS.)

Pursuing this could result is a lot of money spent on lawyers, money that would, to my rescue-oriented mindset (YMindsetMV) perhaps be better spent giving another kitten a good home. There are always kittens in need of homes - and the Tierheim and welfare groups dedicated to helping them could always use some support to further their good work.


There are several lawyerly types here on EF who can likely give you advice as to general contract law...


ETA:
I have found TIR's book 'Tier Im Recht Transparent' a very useful resource. As a run o' the mill pet owner without any legal background, let alone an understanding of Swiss law, this book has given me a better (albeit still rudimentary) understanding of issues surrounding pet ownership here.
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Old 30.03.2017, 14:50
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

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But as other posters have pointed out, the larger question is, what do you really what to achieve? As always one needs to balance what the law says with the likely practical 'real world' result of any action taken - and with your end goal.

(Also consider 'reputational risk'in that equation. Things shouldn't be this way, certainly - but Switzerland is a small place, folks involved in any one interest group will talk to one another. Are you likely to want to purchase a cat from another breeder in this club? No, in a perfect better world one shouldn't have to roll over and accept an injustice... but TIS.)

.
Thanks - this is actually exactly my biggest concern. I think the general consensus of taking it on the chin and moving on might be best for now - I'm sure I'll otherwise be referred to as 'that couple' in the breeding circles
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Old 30.03.2017, 15:10
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

Again - thank you all for your suggestions, advice and comments.
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Old 30.03.2017, 16:43
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

Hi,

How disappointing for you. Its a shame the breeder could not have been more honest with you at the time if they had any concerns about the kitten being alone. Some breeders even offer a reduction if someone wants to take two kittens. I did that when I bred Norwegian Forest cats.

Some of the breeders can be a bit strange over here. How did you find the breeder? was it through Anibis or one of the cat club websites? If you would still want a BSH,there is a cat show in Oberglatt this weekend. You could have a look and maybe meet some other breeders? it is possible that the breeder from Bern might be there though. Here is a link for the show just in case you want a look around. http://ffh.ch/docs/Ausschreibungen/Oberglatt_17.pdf


There are lots of gorgeous cats in the rescues though. Possibly this could be fate and the right kitten/kittens are just waiting for you to find them?

Good luck!

Darcy
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Old 30.03.2017, 16:50
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

Now is the time that all the farm houses have loads of kittens and the ones that don`t find homes are put to sleep.
Maybe ask around.
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Old 30.03.2017, 17:11
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

Who pays 2k for pussy?

(Sorry - but someone had to go there )
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Old 30.03.2017, 17:13
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

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Some of the breeders can be a bit strange over here. How did you find the breeder? was it through Anibis or one of the cat club websites? http://ffh.ch/docs/Ausschreibungen/Oberglatt_17.pdf

Darcy
Ah unfortunately we will be away for the next 2 weeks - I found the Breeder through this site (http://www.britisch-kurzhaar.org/bks...d=21&Itemid=34).

However it was by chance, because the actual advertisement was on Tier-Inserate.ch and we simply noticed the postcode was the same, hence we gave her a call and then paid her a visit.

I agree wholeheartedly - it all feels like a bit of a breeding-mafia which is why I'm extremely courteous for the frank advice I've been given re. not rocking the boat too much. I am going to check out the shelters for sure.

Thx again!
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Old 30.03.2017, 17:17
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Re: Cat Breeder Withdrew from Contract - Advice Needed

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Who pays 2k for pussy?

(Sorry - but someone had to go there )
Lmao - I will be frank, it was a shock. I've shared it on here because I would have thought it's 'normal' for breeders here.

I've given up looking for logic in prices, seemingly they make it up on the spot anyway....I'm sure there's some complex algorithm behind it all
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