Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Pet corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07.11.2012, 18:35
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 81
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 39 Times in 15 Posts
luya has become a little unpopular
Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

For example I want to bring a dog for someone in Zurich, from another country. Of course the dog will be chipped and vaccinated and everything done in the original country, but the new owner will be in Zurich meanwhile. So they cannot go there and bring it to here. (At the moment, there is no new owner actually) The dog is a shelter dog and there is no money exchange. So it is all free. Can I do that?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07.11.2012, 18:46
quark's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Aargh-Ow!
Posts: 1,327
Groaned at 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 1,838 Times in 756 Posts
quark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

All the info you need is here:

http://www.bvet.admin.ch/themen/0161...x.html?lang=en


From which country? The rules are different for pets coming from outside the EU. Technically the dog should belong to the person in Switzerland before it is brought in, so documentation to that effect may be required.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank quark for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 07.11.2012, 18:50
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 81
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 39 Times in 15 Posts
luya has become a little unpopular
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

I read that before. The owner should go there and bring it according to that page, I also asked to Bvet before. So I ask here because I wonder how do shelters bring dogs from for example Spain? Is it because they are EU? So a person living here cannot own a dog in Turkey. They must go there? If I own the dog, can I not give it to my neighbor? Why not?

Quote:
View Post
All the info you need is here:
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07.11.2012, 19:07
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sandyba has no particular reputation at present
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

With the right papers you can bring the dog into the country i used to bring a stray dog from spain back to switzerland every year and never had any problems passing through the customs. Sandy
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07.11.2012, 19:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,688
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 24,873 Times in 7,778 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

A rescue imports under commercial regulations.

http://www.bvet.admin.ch/ein_ausfuhr...x.html?lang=en

FYI, here is the online app that tells you what is needed in each case:
http://bvet.bytix.com/plus/dbr/default.aspx?lang=en

You need the new owner to complete the ownership agreement, and then take care of the paperwork, send it to you. You could then bring the animal in as an accompanying person.

To give you an idea, the rescue I volunteer with does not rehome dogs to Switzerland unless there is a finalized adoption already in place. So prospective adopters are required to go through the initial interview and homecheck, have references checked. If all goes well then the prospective adopter travels to visit the dog wherever he/she may be - usually Germany - spends whatever time is needed to ensure that it is a good fit. In most cases the adoption is then finalized and the dog is imported by the new owners themselves, just as in any owner importation.


It is actually not allowed that a private person import an animal if he/she is not the end owner. From the BVet site:

"After being taken over the border, pets must not be sold or handed over to new owners. They must already be in the care of their owners in the country of origin.
If the animals are handed over to new owners after their entry into the country, the regulations governing the commercial animal imports apply."

Yes, I know that some people do it - but I would urge anyone involved in animal welfare to do it right - for the animals' sake.

---

What exactly are you trying to do? Does this dog have a definitive owner lined up? If you could explain a bit more perhaps I can give you better information.


(As a private person, I traveled to Spain, Germany, Italy, France to adopt my dogs - this is what many people will do. For the sake of the animal, this is preferred, as the new owner and pet must meet and spend time together to assess that the match is a good one.)

---

Just re-read your OP. So there is no new owner? What are your plans for the dog then? Are you acting on your own?

I would suggest you work with an established rescues in Turkey (is that where the dog is?) - most are fairly well versed in cross-border adoption. Good luck.

Last edited by meloncollie; 07.11.2012 at 19:35.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 07.11.2012, 19:36
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 81
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 39 Times in 15 Posts
luya has become a little unpopular
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

Thank you for the answers.
Dear Meloncollie, "The imports must be done by registered importers using the TRACES system", do you use TRACES system? I am OK with regulations but I am not a company. I read it before but sounds scary complicated for me. What should I be? Can I join your rescue center?
There is no prospective owner. But I want to know 'how' before I attempt to bring a dog or before a neighbor or a friend asks me to bring a dog. I understand adopting a photo is a lower possibility, so I thought maybe I bring one and keep it until an owner is found. So that someone who likes it, can be found quickly.
Have a nice evening, luya.

Anser to edit: Yes I have friends there who are responsible for many dogs which are either in shelters or in foster homes or in street. Some rescue centers helps dogs find a home in UK, Germany. but not to Switzerland. I thought it can be different procedure here, so I didn't ask them.

edit3: Ok, thank you.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at luya for this post:
  #7  
Old 07.11.2012, 19:44
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

Please listen to our real expert, Meloncollie ad work according to the law. Don't do it, especially without a real permanent for life owner in place. What happens if you bring a dog and they have a problem with it, with the children, the apartment,, etc. There are 10000s of dogs in shelters right here in Switzerland, and in nearby EU countries. Everyday 100s of pets, dogs, cats, and every animal you can possible imagine, are dumped in shelters, right here. Near us the other day a whole bunch of baby rabbits were dumped in the cold, by a park. The SPAs here are full to the brim, can't take anymore - and call these poor abandoned pets 'Gadget' animals - buy for Christmas, have fun for a few weeks - then dump. PLEASE.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 07.11.2012, 20:00
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 81
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 39 Times in 15 Posts
luya has become a little unpopular
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

This may not be a replacement for buying a dog. I didn't intend to have a dog for example, but when you see that 'one' dog, your feelings change. So not everyone have same feeling for 'any' dog. It is difficult to explain maybe.

Say I visit Korea and see a dog there and can't leave it behind me. So adopting that dog 'while it has zero chance' there shouldn't make me feel bad because EU has hundreds of thousands of dogs in shelters.

Just because, I can watch the dog in their new home, in case they are not correct people, I am thinking of doing this. I can make sure the dog is child-friendly. I also want to go to a dog trainer school. I am looking forward to learn German.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07.11.2012, 20:31
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,688
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 24,873 Times in 7,778 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

Luya, I understand your feelings - I love dogs, all dogs, and it breaks my heart when I see what happens to homeless dogs here, and the world over.

But if there is anything I have learned in 20+ years of volunteer work, if I am to help a dog, I have to do it right. I can let my heart overrule my head as a private person - doG knows I've done that many a time - but as a rescue volunteer I cannot. A rescue must work within the law, within it's means, within it's capacity.

The rescue I volunteer with doesn't import dogs commercially because it is too complicated for such a small group with finite resources. Rather, the rescue concentrates it's efforts in Germany - and motivated potential adopters find their way there. As above, the adoption has to be finalized, and then the new owner brings the dog to Switzerland him/herself.

I understand the feelings when you see a dog you can't turn away from - that was each the Meloncollies past and present.

When you find that dog, why not then adopt that dog as your own, provided that you can provide him/her the necessary care for the remainder of his/her life? But just bringing animals here 'on spec' on your own is only passing the problem on.

I applaud your devotion and passion, and certainly understand your desire to help. Why not visit shelters local to you, ask if you can volunteer? Get to know how rescues operate here and abroad, learn what is required to find a home here - and get to understand what happens when a home can't be found easily.

Rescue work can be very satisfying, can be overwhelming, at times joyously rewarding and at times devastingly heartbreaking. And it is very, very costly. One needs to be understand what one is getting into - which is why I suggest working with an established group.

Your idea of doing one of the animal related degrees is a very good one. Why not the BFA - which includes a 3 month internship in a rescue? That would be an excellent way to get your feet wet, so to speak.

There are a couple of EF members who volunteer with rescues in Switzerland; hopefully one of them will chime in soon.

I truly wish you all the very best.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 07.11.2012, 21:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,899
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

I had adopted one in Greece (got drunk, felt sorry, and signed the papers....) 3 months later they called me to let me know a lady from Zurich was bringing him with on the plane . she did not pay a thing to anyone besides import tax which was 25 chf or something like that. He was chipped vaccinated and all the "paperwork"

He is now my rents favorite dog and is living his life in Belgium with the other puppies. So yes it is possible.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07.11.2012, 22:57
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 81
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 39 Times in 15 Posts
luya has become a little unpopular
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

Meloncollie, would you please tell me more about BFA (what is it short for and is it in English?) and which shelters are there who would accept my help in Zurich? I already asked one of them two times but they didn't answer. And I am definitely looking forward to help actually.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08.11.2012, 01:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tessin
Posts: 6,249
Groaned at 124 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 7,411 Times in 3,489 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

Quote:
Please listen to our real expert, Meloncollie ad work according to the law. Don't do it, especially without a real permanent for life owner in place. What happens if you bring a dog and they have a problem with it, with the children, the apartment,, etc. There are 10000s of dogs in shelters right here in Switzerland, and in nearby EU countries. Everyday 100s of pets, dogs, cats, and every animal you can possible imagine, are dumped in shelters, right here. Near us the other day a whole bunch of baby rabbits were dumped in the cold, by a park. The SPAs here are full to the brim, can't take anymore - and call these poor abandoned pets 'Gadget' animals - buy for Christmas, have fun for a few weeks - then dump. PLEASE.
I saw a sign up today near me, there are 2 big dogs, not young, their owner died suddenly and she was alone. Now these dogs need a home.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Mrs. Doolittle for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 08.11.2012, 02:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,688
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 24,873 Times in 7,778 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

Luya, the BFA is the berufsunabhängige Fachausbildung (or the Fachspezifisches berufsunabhängige Ausbildung FBA - it seems to be referred to both ways, just to confuse us all ) and you can read all about it here:
http://www.tierpfleger.ch/fba-tierbetreuer-züchter/

This is a ca. 40 hour course in animal care, the course previously called the Tierpfleger Light. If you are interested in working in animal welfare this might be a good route to go.

The more in-depth eidg. Tierpfleger diploma is a 3 year course. This is the one required for shelter and kennel managers.

If you are interested in dog training courses, the obvious place to start - if you haven't taken them already - are the SKN theory and practice courses, mandatory for all dog owners. These only touch the surface, but are a good introduction to Swiss expectations. Because every dog owner in Switzerland must take these courses it's a good idea for anyone involved in dog welfare to do so as well, so that we are all on the same page.

For more in-depth 'training to be a trainer' there are many instititions you could study with, depending on what you wish to do. Going with one of the umbrella organizations accredited to train SKN trainers (most do many other training courses as well) would likely be a good choice. Those are here:
http://www.bvet.admin.ch/tsp/02222/0...x.html?lang=de

Click on 'Anerkannte Organisationen für die Ausbildung von Hundetrainern' for a .pdf with contact details.

Of course, one can always learn on one's own - which is what I do, prompted by the fruitbat behavior of my ASBO hounds. I've taken some classes and attended seminars on subjects of particular interest, and I read a lot. And I practically live at the Hundeschule - but as a client. I'm certainly no expert by any means, I'm just a bog-standard dog owner. I've done this just for fun and personal interest, and I work with my own dogs. If you are interested in working with dogs not your own, if you think that you might want to be involved in a professional capacity in Switzerland, I would strongly recommend a Swiss qualification, and maybe consider supplementing with an international qualification or coursework/seminars.

---

As for where to volunteer... the important thing is to find a group where you feel comfortable, where your ideas mesh well, where your talents are needed. I would suggest contacting all the rescues in traveling distance, and simply ask if you could help. Prepare yourself a bit, just as you would for a job interview... perhaps send off an e-mail discussing your experience, your skills and qualifications, talk about your passion for helping homeless animals, etc.

A partial list of Tierheime can be found here:
http://www.tierdatenbank.ch/cms/adre...-tierheim.html

And a list of Animal welfare organizations:
http://www.tierdatenbank.ch/cms/adre...utzverein.html

Note that not all of these need volunteers - you'd need to check first.

You might also contact rescue groups who work internationally as this is an area of interest for you. Two that have good reputations are:

http://www.animal-happyend.ch/index.php?philosophie
http://www.sos-strassenhunde.ch/neu/index.php

Just a few ideas... good luck!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 08.11.2012, 09:04
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Near Luzern
Posts: 1,700
Groaned at 122 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,260 Times in 990 Posts
Patxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

Quote:
View Post

To give you an idea, the rescue I volunteer with does not rehome dogs to Switzerland unless there is a finalized adoption already in place. So prospective adopters are required to go through the initial interview and homecheck, have references checked. If all goes well then the prospective adopter travels to visit the dog wherever he/she may be - usually Germany - spends whatever time is needed to ensure that it is a good fit. In most cases the adoption is then finalized and the dog is imported by the new owners themselves, just as in any owner importation.


It is actually not allowed that a private person import an animal if he/she is not the end owner. From the BVet site:

"After being taken over the border, pets must not be sold or handed over to new owners. They must already be in the care of their owners in the country of origin.
If the animals are handed over to new owners after their entry into the country, the regulations governing the commercial animal imports apply."

Yes, I know that some people do it - but I would urge anyone involved in animal welfare to do it right - for the animals' sake.

---
Good thread and, as always, thank you for the clarification of these regulations.

Somewhat related question:

We are currently in the process of finding a suitable dog to adopt. We have narrowed the list down to about 10 dogs. Most of them are in either France or Germany. Is there any provision in the regulations to import the dog temporarily to make sure that it will be a good fit? We want to make sure that it will get along well with our existing dog, our kids, neighbors, village kids, etc.,... It would be great if we could have a test drive for a week or so prior to officially importing it.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08.11.2012, 12:00
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,688
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 24,873 Times in 7,778 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

Paxi, the one time when a rescue was located too far away for frequent visits to be practical and I felt that I need more time to make a thorough assessment, we took a mini 'holiday' where the dog was located. This gave me time to assess compatability with my existing crew both in the kennels and in a home-like situation that was still neutral ground.

Is that possible for your family? I know you can't 'test drive' the relationship with neighbors that way, but I'd think carefully about the stress the trip, the stress a new environment would place on the dog if it didn't work out.

As I'm sure you know, though, your home isn't neutral territory - it's your existing pets' territory. There may well be settling-in bumps to iron out once the new dog is in your home... that's to be expected. But an assessment on neutral ground should in most cases have given you a pretty good idea as to whether those bumps are 'iron-able', or not.

I've never had a dog on trial, largely because I spend so much time in pre-adoption assessment, including long before I've even met the dog. I've always had a good 'gut feeling' and knew that I could cope with any issues that might spring up later. And to be fair, I don't have children so I have less to consider.

But thinking off the top of my head, theoretically one could import a dog as an owner; that it is a trial phase is between you and the rescue. Just do the Zoll paperwork as an owner like you would a finalized adoption. Understand, though, that during that period you bear an owner's responsibility. You have 10 days to do the ANIS registration - and frankly no one would quibble if it took a few days longer - which should be time to assess compatability in your home.

(As I always drive, I am rarely stopped at the border. I've even been told that "the Zollamt officers are too busy to bother, please drive on". I've 'imported' most of my newly adopted dogs once home, via my vet.)

The rescue I volunteer with would have some qualms with a trial period outside the country, though, as there are questions of international law. How would the rescue guarantee the dog's safety should a prospective adopter suddenly decided he/she wanted rid of the dog immediately, etc. etc. And as above, the stress on the dog is of real concern. This is why this rescue wants the adoption finalized when the adopters are outside the country.

But this is a very small group with limited resources - I must stress that every rescue works to it's own policies. You are likely to find many with a different outlook and procedures.

Have a chat with the rescues with which you are in contact, ask them what people in your situation do. This is a common issue; I'd guess many would likely have a policy already in place.

Hope you find your new four footed friend soon - and that the settling-in phase goes smoothly.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 09.11.2012, 15:39
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: zumikon
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 42 Times in 2 Posts
tanyafly has no particular reputation at present
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

Well I know from personal experience that it is legal to bring a pet from some outside countries. I don't know which ones specifically, but a few years ago someone brought over some kittens from a shelter in Greece that they gave to us. Aslong as they are vaccinated, chipped and have a "passport", it should be fine!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09.11.2012, 18:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,688
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 24,873 Times in 7,778 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bringing a pet here to give to someone, is it legal?

One last try...

As a private person, it is not allowed to bring a pet animal here with the intention of passing it on to someone else. The end owner must import the animal.

In order to bring an animal here with the intention of passing it on either via sale or for adoption, one must import under commercial rules.

Yes, I know that people import incorrectly, declare animals as theirs with false intention, even smuggle animals in. But they are acting outside the BVet regulations.


As I have said many times before: if you wish to help animals, please do it right and stay on the right side of the law.

Animal welfare work is very much in need of public goodwill. A rescue needs to maintain a sterling reputation here in Switzerland if it is to operate successfully.


The law is clear. What you chose to do with this information is up to you and your conscience.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it a normal custom to give gift to lawyer in Switzerland? zacjon Daily life 21 10.08.2017 10:47
Would it kill the restaurants here to give you free water AussieNanny Complaints corner 399 13.11.2012 00:55
How hard is it to find someone to take over your lease? RobertS Housing in general 4 16.08.2012 21:49
Is it a legal requirement to have a residence to sign an apartment contract? Rach_UK Permits/visas/government 3 15.04.2011 15:53
Is it legal to rent a room to someone in an apartment that I am renting? Oz12 Housing in general 7 12.01.2007 23:07


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0