Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Pet corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 25.03.2018, 13:43
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,800
Groaned at 152 Times in 103 Posts
Thanked 4,786 Times in 1,883 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals


Enough with the fake service dogs and 'emotional support' pigs!



The absurdity of passing a pig off as an emotional service animal reminds me of Lucille Ball's 'Cheese Baby' lol

Last edited by pilatus1; 25.03.2018 at 14:16.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 25.03.2018, 14:14
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 8,639
Groaned at 314 Times in 241 Posts
Thanked 19,833 Times in 6,914 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

just to be sure: is a cat for a spinster still just a cat?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 25.03.2018, 15:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 11,135
Groaned at 356 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 16,446 Times in 8,359 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
View Post
The absurdity of passing a pig off as an emotional service animal reminds me of Lucille Ball's 'Cheese Baby' lol
You can imagine a similar dialogue..
"His name is Eisbein"...

Seriously now, a few attention seekers and cheats spoil it for the good ones.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 25.03.2018, 15:18
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,350
Groaned at 90 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 19,665 Times in 8,701 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
View Post
just to be sure: is a cat for a spinster still just a cat?
Depends. A good friend of mine is unmarried/never married and has several cats of her own in addition to fostering. Is she a bit of a crazy cat lady? I suppose, but she's also struggled with depression and the cats give her purpose and comfort and keep her happy. Nothing wrong with that, at least imo.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 25.03.2018, 15:57
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,242
Groaned at 99 Times in 80 Posts
Thanked 12,763 Times in 5,180 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

@Penelopepitstop
from some of the articles people have linked to, in this thread, more or less practical or absurd, I get the impression that - quite apart from the regulations, about which meloncollie has already posted very well - there might well be a cultural difference in the general attitude to Emotional Support Animals, between your country and Switzerland.

In general, Swiss people (or at least those in the German-speaking cantons) seem to be law-abiding. They can make a real point of it when they want to get something done about any situation they don't like. The negative side is a certain petty pedantry, the postitive side of this is that anyone with a legitimate reason to do something, and who can prove it, is usually free to do that thing. Swiss people can also be understanding and tolerant, but usually mostly once the reason for something that is unusual has been made clear.

On the other hand, there is very little sense of entitlement for anyone with disabilities. It is not automatic and obvious that a person in a wheelchair can gain sccess to a building, for example. Similarly, there are many places where those with hearing disabilities are not accommodated. Those with psychological illnesses or disabilities barely even have a lobby. Enabling people with all sorts of disabilities is an official political goal, and much is being done towards achieving it. Switzerland is, however, a long way from it. There are, however, excellent support groups, and connecting with them can be very useful.

Altogether, if you say "ESA", people - even more than here on this thread - are likely to ask: "Huh? A what?" and "You mean you want to bring that dog into this building? Sorry, dogs are not allowed here."

This will apply when looking for accommodation, too, since by and large apartment blocks seldom allow animals, though exceptions are sometimes (but not necessarily) made, especially for smaller dogs and guide dogs for the blind. You'd have to document everything though.

In other words, even if you get all the paperwork in order, for this particular dog you already have, or for another animal, you will most likely be faced with having to explain your situation, over and over again. You will need to steel yourself for this, in advance.

Something that could help in everyday life here would be for you, or for your dog, to visibly wear the emblems that signal a disability. They can make people much more ready to accommodate what will be, for most, an unusual sight. For example, blind people here have the option of wearing a special armband. The specialit treating a friend who sees poorly, but is not blind, recommended to him that he simply go ahead and wear that armband, "because it is something that people recognise and understand". You might find (or design, or bring along) some similarly appropriate emblem, harness, vest, etc. for yourself and your animal.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 25.03.2018, 16:09
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
View Post

Something that could help in everyday life here would be for you, or for your dog, to visibly wear the emblems that signal a disability. They can make people much more ready to accommodate what will be, for most, an unusual sight. For example, blind people here have the option of wearing a special armband. The specialit treating a friend who sees poorly, but is not blind, recommended to him that he simply go ahead and wear that armband, "because it is something that people recognise and understand". You might find (or design, or bring along) some similarly appropriate emblem, harness, vest, etc. for yourself and your animal.
This makes me sad and angry in equal measure. Wearing a badge (or similar) to announce a difference so that the rest of the world is better able to cope? Yuck. That does not an inclusive society make. But then most places don't seem to be wheelchair or pushchair accessible so I shouldn't be surprised by the rest.

How is it "entitlement" to expect the same access/considerations as everyone else? It's as though it's (at best) a societal inconvenience to be, in any way, "less than".

OP: I wish you all the best. Zurich probably isn't the best destination for you and your lovely hound.

Last edited by RufusB; 25.03.2018 at 16:13. Reason: Increased levels of outrage
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 25.03.2018, 16:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,242
Groaned at 99 Times in 80 Posts
Thanked 12,763 Times in 5,180 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Yes, I agree with you, RufusB. It does not an inclusive society make. That is the point: sadly, we don't really have such a society. The recommendation from my friend's eye-specialist was so that he could, at least for some of the time, be free of the burden of always having to explain himself and his needs.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 25.03.2018, 16:15
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
View Post
Yes, I agree with you, RufusB. It does not an inclusive society make. That is the point: sadly, we don't really have such a society. The recommendation from my friend's eye-specialist was so that he could, at least for some of the time, be free of the burden of always having to explain himself and his needs.
It's utterly disgusting that anyone, let alone a medical professional, should feel they have to suggest such a thing and a black mark against any argument for how amazing Swiss society is. They may as well go the whole eugenics hog.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 25.03.2018, 17:08
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,263
Groaned at 129 Times in 113 Posts
Thanked 11,413 Times in 4,981 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
View Post
Yes, I agree with you, RufusB. It does not an inclusive society make. That is the point: sadly, we don't really have such a society...
...yet.

I remember when ESA animals were beginning to be talked about in the UK and was met with derision in some quarters (as we have seen in this thread). I think the UK responded better to the concept of Therapy animals because we can easily relate to that. ESA is a bit more contentious, and seen by some as pushing the boundaries to the ridiculous.

We were always able to distinguish a guide dog from the harness they wore, but as more dogs are being walked with a harness rather than a collar and lead now, the distinction has become a little blurred.

Friends of ours have an Therapy/ES dog for their 6yr old autistic son who didn't speak at all before they got the dog, but there are signs that he's desperately trying to speak to the dog.

All in all, animals can and do play a remarkable role in society. Besides guide dogs, I'm always astounded by dogs trained to sense when their owner is going to have an epileptic fit and 'raise the alarm'. And another story (for anyone who cares to look it up) is of Thula the Maine Coon cat that has helped an autistic girl to overcome her intense fear of water.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 25.03.2018, 17:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: na
Posts: 11,248
Groaned at 37 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 26,732 Times in 8,253 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Just a word of caution here:

It must be stressed that attitudes towards and acceptance of ESAs is only the second part of the OP's delimma.

The first, and IMO primary, issue is that her ESA is a banned breed/mix in canton ZH. As far as I know there have been no exceptions to the ban. The OP should indeed contact the ZH Veterinäramt to clarify that the ban applies also to (trained, officially certified) service dogs, or clarify the possibility of the 30 day visitor's permit.

As we meander into discussions of Swiss views on ESAs, we must be careful of raising false hope for the OP and remember first and foremost the breed issue: Zürich has banned pit mixes.* The current law forbids any dog of a pit mix from taking up residence in the canton.

I stress this because the OP comes from a country where disability rights often take precedence over other issues, she might not realize that this is (sadly and shamefully IMO) not the case in Switzerland. She needs to approach the problem with this in mind.


ETA:

Penelope, does your potential future employer know about your need for an ESA? If so, did you find the company's response supportive, do you have a guarantee that you will be allowed to bring him into work? (Again remembering the difference in laws between CH and the US.) If your potential future employer is wholly behind you, and if they want you, and only you, and understand that this could be a deal breaker issue - get them involved.




* Y'all know how much I abhore BSL. Bad science makes bad law. That a pitmix is trained and certified as a therapy dog should make those who are blinded by prejudice think again. Or even think for the first time.

(Hopping off soapbox now...)

Last edited by meloncollie; 25.03.2018 at 17:26.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 25.03.2018, 17:31
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
View Post
Ok! I´ll bite. What the heck is an emotional support animal?
Dutch commercial which demonstrates clearly how even people who to outsiders show zero sign of a serious problem when you meet them are in absolute need of help which thankfully a dog can offer them.



This is just one of the many things how dogs can help people.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 25.03.2018, 17:38
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 3
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
penelopepitstop has no particular reputation at present
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
View Post
Seems a cynical workaround to get your pet into places they wouldn't be allowed otherwise
This is an unfortunate reality that is happening in the US. But this is not true for many people who depend on them.

There are ESA that do go through certified training, it is offensive that on this forum people would be so quick to dismiss an invisible disability.

I have suffered for years from PTSD coupled with Anxiety, my ESA has been trained in detection of oncoming PTSD episodes. Having the dog has significantly reduced my chances of an episode occurring. That being said there are often days, or weeks, that I don't physically need my dog with me. But some weeks where I do.

If you don't understand mental health or the difficulties people with mental health issues face, simply because you cannot "see" what is wrong, I wouldn't be quick to make a judgement.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank penelopepitstop for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 25.03.2018, 17:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,242
Groaned at 99 Times in 80 Posts
Thanked 12,763 Times in 5,180 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

I took gbn's remark to be directed at some of the over-the-top examples such at those in some of the links in this thread, i.e. at people who do not, in fact, need the kind of specialised, trained help that an ESA provides, but are instead misusing the system.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 25.03.2018, 17:49
gbn's Avatar
gbn gbn is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Zuri Oberland
Posts: 2,753
Groaned at 107 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,424 Times in 1,138 Posts
gbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
View Post
This is an unfortunate reality that is happening in the US. But this is not true for many people who depend on them.

There are ESA that do go through certified training, it is offensive that on this forum people would be so quick to dismiss an invisible disability.

I have suffered for years from PTSD coupled with Anxiety, my ESA has been trained in detection of oncoming PTSD episodes. Having the dog has significantly reduced my chances of an episode occurring. That being said there are often days, or weeks, that I don't physically need my dog with me. But some weeks where I do.

If you don't understand mental health or the difficulties people with mental health issues face, simply because you cannot "see" what is wrong, I wouldn't be quick to make a judgement.
The fact is, ESAs are abused: turkeys, peacocks, monkeys. And dangerous dogs?

You make assumptions about me BTW, you dpn't know me at all.
I can read about ESAs and abuse though
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 25.03.2018, 17:51
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 3
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
penelopepitstop has no particular reputation at present
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
View Post
Maybe I should rephrase, what I wanted to say is that I can´t get my head around the concept of an emotional support animal, especially one that is not trained to be anything else other than maybe decorative. I also can´t imagine anybody needing an animal as described by the OP to cling to when they start to go to pieces, it seems a good way for an angsty person to get bitten. And yes I can use the google too you know, it´s just that Meloncollie´s answer makes more sense.
Wow this answer is extremely offensive and shows your ignorance in understanding mental health. We don't often "cling to our animals" but rather the animals are trained to sense anxiety or a PTSD episode even before it starts in full swing. This often gives one enough time to change environment even if just for a few minutes which can greatly reduce the duration/intensity of an episode. There are good weeks and bad weeks, and a well trained ESA can help you get through the bad weeks.

But I generally sense there is a a lot of anti-disability sentiment in Switzerland, if this thread is any indication. Which is a general problem in Europe that is well known. I lived elsewhere in Europe for 10 years, and it certainly has a long way to go.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank penelopepitstop for this useful post:
This user groans at penelopepitstop for this post:
  #36  
Old 25.03.2018, 17:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,242
Groaned at 99 Times in 80 Posts
Thanked 12,763 Times in 5,180 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
It's utterly disgusting that anyone, let alone a medical professional, should feel they have to suggest such a thing and a black mark against any argument for how amazing Swiss society is. They may as well go the whole eugenics hog.
I can see your point. Even so, I leart something from another friend who is hard of hearing. He said that if there were such an emblem (like the one blind people can wear) he could wear to make his hearing disability visible and obvious to others, he'd jump at the chance, as it would make so many of his encounters at enquiries desks, at tills in shops, at ticket counters, so much easier.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 25.03.2018, 18:00
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,242
Groaned at 99 Times in 80 Posts
Thanked 12,763 Times in 5,180 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
View Post
This is an unfortunate reality that is happening in the US. But this is not true for many people who depend on them.

There are ESA that do go through certified training, it is offensive that on this forum people would be so quick to dismiss an invisible disability.

I have suffered for years from PTSD coupled with Anxiety, my ESA has been trained in detection of oncoming PTSD episodes. Having the dog has significantly reduced my chances of an episode occurring. That being said there are often days, or weeks, that I don't physically need my dog with me. But some weeks where I do.

If you don't understand mental health or the difficulties people with mental health issues face, simply because you cannot "see" what is wrong, I wouldn't be quick to make a judgement.
Quote:
View Post
Wow this answer is extremely offensive and shows your ignorance in understanding mental health. We don't often "cling to our animals" but rather the animals are trained to sense anxiety or a PTSD episode even before it starts in full swing. This often gives one enough time to change environment even if just for a few minutes which can greatly reduce the duration/intensity of an episode. There are good weeks and bad weeks, and a well trained ESA can help you get through the bad weeks.

But I generally sense there is a a lot of anti-disability sentiment in Switzerland, if this thread is any indication. Which is a general problem in Europe that is well known. I lived elsewhere in Europe for 10 years, and it certainly has a long way to go.
@penelopepitstop,
I can understand your frustration at having a disability that is not visible, and in trying to get the help you need. Please, however, remember that this is an English-speaking forum based in Switzerland, and, as such, many of the posters are not Swiss, some are, some are in Switzerland, and others, like you, are not. Each of them has his/her own set of problems, and is muddling along as best they can.

As on any other forum, if you are looking for helpful answers to your questions, it can be efficient just to focus on those posts which you happen to find useful or kind, practical or informative, and skip over any that you don't like.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 25.03.2018, 18:17
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Emotional Support Animals

I think the OP has a point. It is unfortunate that ESA have been taken advantage of. However, the attitude, lack of understanding of some of you here is really shocking.

People with mental illnesses rely on ESA to help them deal with daily challenges arising from living with PTSD, debilitating anxiety and so on. Many people benefit from these animals and many people are not out to game the system.

But like everything else here, smart ass(es) have to come up with extreme examples of abuse. The OP was looking for a response to a reasonable question....got some of that, but then a whole spate of extreme nonsense.

It’s like dogs marking territory.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 25.03.2018, 18:19
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
View Post
The fact is, ESAs are abused: turkeys, peacocks, monkeys. And dangerous dogs?

You make assumptions about me BTW, you dpn't know me at all.
I can read about ESAs and abuse though
Every ruling, special arrangement or exception existing throughout mankind always has been and will be disabused, so what is your point in playing dummy in a topic where somebody has a serious question about what to her is a serious problem.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 25.03.2018, 18:42
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,263
Groaned at 129 Times in 113 Posts
Thanked 11,413 Times in 4,981 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Emotional Support Animals

Quote:
People with mental illnesses rely on ESA to help them deal with daily challenges arising from living with PTSD, debilitating anxiety and so on. Many people benefit from these animals and many people are not out to game the system.
I think we're juggling emotional and logical responses.

To the OP,
I'd like to see the science behind your dog being able to sense when an episode is coming on. My ex was diagnosed with PTSD in 2001, which wasn't recognised as a mental illness in those days, but is now. My pit bull x Lab would hide at the furthest corner of the back garden for an hour or so beforehand, and refuse to come near the house until a few hours after his episode had passed.

I think you need to follwo the course of action recommended by meloncollie and base your next step upon that response. Also, is your prospective employer aware that you have an ESA, and has given permission for your dog to accompany you to work ?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Emotional distress - what to do? Carlos R Family matters/health 65 26.05.2016 13:17
Tired, stressed & emotional. But celebrating a wonderful new arrival! grumpygrapefruit Pet corner 207 14.05.2012 20:54
Break Free from Emotional Eating: The Breakthrough Workshop vanessa-g Commercial events 0 06.06.2011 15:11
Emotional speech survey Guest General off-topic 22 10.03.2010 16:27
An emotional Evening to share.. Powerlauer Entertainment & dining 2 10.11.2009 09:36


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0