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  #141  
Old 28.03.2018, 23:51
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

Madness - yes!
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  #142  
Old 28.03.2018, 23:57
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

It is worth observing that very, very few people are actually obliged to fly.

Some of us can't go diving, others can't eat bread or drink milk. Maybe it's simply the case that some of us will just have to forego flying.

Life sucks, eh?
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  #143  
Old 30.03.2018, 12:44
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

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It is worth observing that very, very few people are actually obliged to fly.
The thing is that some people maybe shouldn’t fly. I recently asked a friend with a toddler why on earth they are flying to the states for vacation instead of something like a road trip. Answer: “Now our boy can fly for free. From next year on we’d have to buy another ticket at 50% the normal costs, so we better go now...”

I guess that’s why there are so many babies on planes.
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  #144  
Old 30.03.2018, 13:19
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

Thing is, this ESA pets on plane is a very recent thing.

If I have to go and visit an ailing parent, or on business to the other side of the world, and, oh yes, on a well earnt holiday of a lifetime - and spend 1000+ on a ticket- and have a severe allergy to pet hair or feathers - I really can't see how my rights are less than those of the ones 'needing' one of the above. Bonkers.

Again, I love animals- all of them - so not a problem for me, at all.

Should a grandchild with an allergy be condemned to never see his grandparents who live abroad, because of the possibility of an ESA on board?

Last edited by Odile; 30.03.2018 at 14:23.
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  #145  
Old 30.03.2018, 16:11
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

I agree that flying is not, per se, a human right. It's an amazing thing to cross contintents that way, and it is wonderful to find oneself in a totally different landscape and heartwarming be re-united with those one loves. Even so, flying is not essential, like breathing is.
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  #146  
Old 30.03.2018, 16:49
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

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I agree that flying is not, per se, a human right. It's an amazing thing to cross contintents that way, and it is wonderful to find oneself in a totally different landscape and heartwarming be re-united with those one loves. Even so, flying is not essential, like breathing is.
Yes, but wouldn´t that count then as well for the person with the ESA animal?

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  #147  
Old 30.03.2018, 16:52
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

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I agree that flying is not, per se, a human right. It's an amazing thing to cross contintents that way, and it is wonderful to find oneself in a totally different landscape and heartwarming be re-united with those one loves. Even so, flying is not essential, like breathing is.
Agreed, of course. But the question here is not about the right to fly, per se, but whose right should come first - people with severe allergies who want to fly or people who want/need ESAs. It seems the airlines go for the latter- and I disagree.
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  #148  
Old 30.03.2018, 16:56
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

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Yes, but wouldn´t that count then as well for the person with the ESA animal?

Absolutely. I think we need to move away from this current fad for everything being a "human right". The plain fact is that some stuff is just not accessible for some people just because it isn't. Flying by plane is out of the question for some people with inner-ear disorders, pregnant women over a certain number of weeks, people with no cash to buy tickets, people on no-fly lists - what about their human rights? Should a coeliac have a human right to eat biscuits? Should a lactose intolerant person have a human right to drink a gallon of milk at breakfast? Should a diabetic have a human right to eat a dozen Luxembourgerlis without taking her insulin? We can make anything into a human right, but it doesn't make it safe or wise.

Like I said above: life sucks. It sucks for some people more than others. Even the Greeks had clocked that one.

So it goes.
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  #149  
Old 30.03.2018, 17:34
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

Sorry dear- but I just can't hear you.
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  #150  
Old 30.03.2018, 19:22
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

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Agreed, of course. But the question here is not about the right to fly, per se, but whose right should come first - people with severe allergies who want to fly or people who want/need ESAs. It seems the airlines go for the latter- and I disagree.
If you’re going to weigh rights in such a manner, then each case must be evaluated individually. If the ESA person has no flexibility but the allergic person does, then ESA goes, allergic person is compensated and accommodated on the next flight. Likewise, the converse should apply. If neither, then I guess you just have to flip a coin.

Anyway, has this situation occurred and how have the airlines dealt with it?
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  #151  
Old 30.03.2018, 19:49
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

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Anyway, has this situation occurred and how have the airlines dealt with it?
In every case I've seen so far, the ESA trumps the allergic person.

I should imagine there are very good business reasons behind it: no airline wants to be the first to throw a Veteran off the plane, and the number of people with severe allergies to animals is relatively small compared to the potential number of people who might want to bring ESAs on board.

Of course, should some poor bugger drop dead of anaphylaxis, the negative publicity might lead to a reversal of such policies.

Any volunteers?
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  #152  
Old 30.03.2018, 19:59
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

You’ve actually read of cases? I’ve not, but then I pretty much ignore US news these days. It just pisses me off.
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  #153  
Old 30.03.2018, 20:01
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

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You’ve actually read of cases? I’ve not, but then I pretty much ignore US news these days. It just pisses me off.
I googled them.

You don't think I habitually read the news, do you?
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  #154  
Old 30.03.2018, 20:29
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

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I googled them.

You don't think I habitually read the news, do you?
Stranger things have happened...........
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  #155  
Old 30.03.2018, 20:31
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

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If you’re going to weigh rights in such a manner, then each case must be evaluated individually. If the ESA person has no flexibility but the allergic person does, then ESA goes, allergic person is compensated and accommodated on the next flight. Likewise, the converse should apply. If neither, then I guess you just have to flip a coin.

Anyway, has this situation occurred and how have the airlines dealt with it?
It is interesting though- as said, none of this applies to me. Yes, it would be interesting to read about real cases- and get ethics/legal experts to debate and make an official ruling- otherwise- flip a coin as you say.

Truly can't see how the right of someone to travel with a ESA can trump the right of somehow not to die of a severe anaphylactic shock. Bizarre.

As for food intolerance, or religious dietary requirements, etc- there is no comparison. No airline has ever forced a diabetic to eat their desert, or a gluten intolerant to eat bread, or a Hindu to eat beef, etc. have they? Worst that could happen is that they have no suitable meal available if they have not booked, and even on a long flight, they are unlikely to die.

A legal and ethical minefield indeed.
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  #156  
Old 30.03.2018, 21:47
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

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No airline has ever forced a diabetic to eat their desert, or a gluten intolerant to eat bread, or a Hindu to eat beef, etc. have they? Worst that could happen is that they have no suitable meal available if they have not booked, and even on a long flight, they are unlikely to die.
Reminds me of a flight I was on a few years ago, SFO to PHL, or thereabouts. It was 3pm, I'd barely made it onto the flight due to some itinerary changes and only had a few packages of peanut butter crackers for my breakfast/lunch/dinner. After they'd closed the cabin doors they made an announcement that due to a passenger with severe allergies, no peanuts could be eaten on board. And of course as I was a last-minute addition to the flight, I was stuck all the way in the back. By the time the overpriced food cart got to me they'd sold out of all the snacks I could eat.

I mostly felt awful for whoever that person was. What a scary way to go through life.

Back to the topic at hand, I flew quite a bit around the US and never saw any of large dogs or unusual pets as ESAs. Seeing eye dog, yeah, but not ESAs. Maybe I was on the wrong routes. Are they really that common? (If there are any airlines reading this thread, how about some pet-friendly routes! We can't be the only ones who would happily pay full price for a seat to keep the dog out of cargo...)
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  #157  
Old 01.04.2018, 17:57
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

An article in the Washington Post about veterans with PTSD and service (not support) animals.

Attempts to study whether there is a measurable impact.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ptimist&wpmm=1
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  #158  
Old 22.05.2018, 14:24
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

Bringing this thread back up with an FYI:

American Airlines has updated it's ESA policy, efective 1 July 2018, including restrictions on some species, requiring advance notification, and additional documentation. See here:
https://www.americanairlines.ch/i18n...ce-animals.jsp

A sensible move, methinks. This allows people who need their ESA to travel with them while hopefully stopping those who might abuse the system.
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  #159  
Old 22.05.2018, 16:04
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

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A sensible move, methinks. This allows people who need their ESA to travel with them while hopefully stopping those who might abuse the system.
Sensible? They essentially limited the choice to dogs and cats, everything else is by default out. Inlcuding pets like bunnies which I understand are quite common ESAs?


#dontdiscriminatecapibaras
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  #160  
Old 22.05.2018, 16:11
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Re: Emotional Support Animals

I love capybaras. I wouldn't fly with one, poor creature. Like flying is emotionally ok for animals. Geee.
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