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Old 28.07.2018, 00:07
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

Just read an article in the New York Times about a possible link between grain free diets and heart disease in large dogs. Here is the link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/24/h...t-disease.html

We have always fed our 8 year old yellow lab Orijen and she seems to love it and thrive on it. This article gave me pause for thought. That said, I am always a little suspect/wary of studies such as these as it is far too easy to manipulate data.

Last edited by terrifisch; 28.07.2018 at 00:58.
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Old 28.07.2018, 02:34
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

Well, he can tolerate quinoa and a number of other high starch vegetables. He's a mid sized (40lbs) northern spitz breed, he REALLY loves frozen fatty fish of all kinds. Mackerel, herring etc., nom nom. He'll also blaze through a large frozen turkey neck in minutes without every barfing up a bone or showing any signs of them in his stool.



I am 100% certain that if still on grains he would already be dead.
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Old 21.10.2018, 16:15
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

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We have 2 dogs, one has a grain allergy that may be better thought of as a refined or simple carbohydrate allergy. He almost died a few months after we got him, seeing a puppy pooping blood is a very sad thing...



The vet insisted we keep feeding him various 'hydrolyzed' processed foods, he just kept getting worse. After a second, very expensive, trip to the vet where they basically rescued him from the brink we decided to try a very simple raw diet. He recovered within a week, it was amazing, and has been healthy ever since.



In an effort to continue introducing diversity into his diet we keep researching and trying different foods. We found this brand of dehydrated raw food here in Canada https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food. Just add water, wait 3 minutes and serve.



We're planning to relocate to Switzerland next year. Does anyone know of a similar dehydrated raw sourced food there?
We use Lily’s kitchen which is all whole meats (no meal meets, fillers etc.) and our Bernese who has a sensitive stomach is now having normal bathroom breaks etc and her coat is shiny- not to mention she loves it! While it’s a UK brand HappyPaws.ch sells it on their site and it usually arrives in 2-3 days to your door.
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Old 21.10.2018, 17:20
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

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Just read an article in the New York Times about a possible link between grain free diets and heart disease in large dogs. Here is the link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/24/h...t-disease.html

We have always fed our 8 year old yellow lab Orijen and she seems to love it and thrive on it. This article gave me pause for thought. That said, I am always a little suspect/wary of studies such as these as it is far too easy to manipulate data.
The FDA memo has certainly created a storm - whether it turns out to be tempest in a teacup or the canary in the mineshaft is yet to be seen. The memo was maddenly light on details, so I would simply urge all of you to:

A. Don't panic.

B. Speak to your own vets wrt your individual dogs' nutrition.

C. Keep an eye out for further independent research, as you normally would with any veterinary nutrition issue. Always look for statements of interest (i.e. who is sponsoring the study or other work by that academician) for any study.

And of course, when an issue surfaces that is of concern for you, never rely solely on news reports or second hand discussions of a study, try to go back to the original research- and again, speak to your own vet.

---

The Skepvet, a blog I find both thoughtful and eye opening, has collated notes from an FDA webinar discussing the memo and the studies that led to it. An interesting read:

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/09/fda...ardiomyopathy/

And an earlier SKepvet discussion of the memo:
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/08/gra...sease-in-dogs/


Key to me is that the Skepvet titles his article "Discussing Dietary Risk Factors for Dilated Cardiomyopathy", rather than the click bait 'Grain Free is Dangerous!' that has made it's way into mass media's consciousness. The issue at hand is notice of an unusual rise in DCM in some breeds not previously thought at risk, based on some reports. Whether there may or may not be a dietary link is what all the fuss is about. Click-bait in the popular press may be giving a less than thorough picture.

--

As an FYI, here is the FDA memo:
https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary.../ucm613305.htm

And the FDA Q and A accompanying the memo:
https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary.../ucm616279.htm

For reference, here is a report by Dr Freeman at Tufts, who is one researcher exploring the issues:
http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2018/0...c-ingredients/

And for contrast, a response by the editor of Pet Food Industry magazine:
https://www.petfoodindustry.com/blog...on-ingredients



---

My own dogs are doing very well their current diets, which are largely grain free foods, although they do get some food containing grains in the mix. I want to learn as much as I can, will continue to keep abreast of new reports. But for now I'm hesitant to change what works well so far until I see more science - or until that little voice in the back of my head tells me that something needs to be done differently for an individual dog.

YMMV - but please make your decisions after careful study of the various issues.

---

tl;dr:

It seems to me that the jury is likely still out on this issue - links to correlation do not yet seem to be established let alone causation. Early days.

As always, read, research, discuss any new issue with your own vet, in light of your own dog's health.
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Old 23.10.2018, 11:55
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

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We have 2 dogs, one has a grain allergy that may be better thought of as a refined or simple carbohydrate allergy. He almost died a few months after we got him, seeing a puppy pooping blood is a very sad thing...



The vet insisted we keep feeding him various 'hydrolyzed' processed foods, he just kept getting worse. After a second, very expensive, trip to the vet where they basically rescued him from the brink we decided to try a very simple raw diet. He recovered within a week, it was amazing, and has been healthy ever since.



In an effort to continue introducing diversity into his diet we keep researching and trying different foods. We found this brand of dehydrated raw food here in Canada https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food. Just add water, wait 3 minutes and serve.



We're planning to relocate to Switzerland next year. Does anyone know of a similar dehydrated raw sourced food there?
Hi there,

We use Vet-Concept. While I'm not certain about whether the ingredients would be suitable for your pup, the team at Vet-Concept is very responsive and fully understands that not all foods suit all dogs. It might be worth checking this out - https://www.vet-concept.ch/fr/a-propos-de-nous
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  #26  
Old 23.10.2018, 12:53
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

If you’re in Suisse Romande, I’ve heard a lot of good things about ordering from Zouzou, but I myself haven’t feed raw for many years, certainly not in Switzerland.

Re: the grain free scare, I heartily second meloncollie’s advice. From what I’ve seen and read, it looks to be mainly linked to high legume content (pea, lentils, etc) blocking taurine absorption rather than strictly the fact that it’s grain free. Hard to know until more research comes out.

Personally I prefer low grain or grain free (but high meat content always, minimal fillers) commercial food. Yes raw is great if it works for you, your dogs and your lifestyle. But seeing as we probably won’t be able to afford good meat for ourselves, much less the dog, until we’re back in the US, to say nothing of the freezer space...there you have it
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  #27  
Old 16.03.2019, 08:10
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

There certainly is excellent information on this site so glad to have found it.



We picked up our now 18 week old German Shepherd puppy from UK 4 weeks ago. The breeder had him on raw beef and tripe plus Dr John Kibble. He started itching badly and our Vet said likely to be diet. We found this great food, link below, and stopped the kibble. His itching stopped and his coat was fantastic. He could also go in the car without throwing up. We got him all the way to Switzerland with supplies in a freezer pack but have now run out of it and really struggling to find him something else.


https://www.naturalinstinct.com/raw-puppy-food


I have tried some frozen chicken from Lucky Pets but that isn't a balance meal and too big chunks which he threw up. We have registered with a great vet in Cham and she has said he may have allergies. (He is on medication for the yeast infection in his ear) and to try him on kibble again. She said that when I find something that works for him she will go through the labels and see if it is ok





Qualipet recommended Harmony Junior with chicken grain free. He does like the kibble but he is now drinking much more water (too thirsty) and his poo is really loose. It makes his stomach gurgle



. I have never done RAW before and am really struggling. I did also find some minced frozen chicken at Qualipet from Barf and More and they also do separate frozen vegetables. Does anyone know about the quality


I have asked the English company if they will ship it to Switzerland but they aren't able to. I am at the point I would have probably paid whatever they wanted to get him his food again! I am going to try Meiko today but if anyone can assist Axel and I would be really grateful. Are there any doggie nutritionists who could help


Many thanks
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  #28  
Old 16.03.2019, 09:20
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

As I mentioned in another thread, I don't feed BARF so really can't advise - other than to say:

First, do you have the exact ingredients of the UK supplier's BARF diet? If so, go to your local butcher and ask for those cuts. You should likely also ask the UK breeder, he/she should be able to get you that information, as well as ask which supplements were being given.

Also, this is purely anecdotal as I only know a handful of GSD owners, but among those I know the majority have various sorts of 'delicate stomach' issues. I don't know if this common in the breed, or not - but the folks who would know are the Schäferhund Cub, the breed club under the SKG, here:
https://www.schaeferhund.ch

If eligible (I have no idea of pedigree requirements, that's not my world) you might consider joining the club, ask for advice and network with other GSD owners who use BARF. Ask what they feed and where to source the ingredients in Switzerland.

I'd also go back to the vet to discuss diet issues. They might even be able to put in touch with other owners at the practice who feed BARF. (You mentioned Cham, are you at MyVets?)

Also, I wouldn't necessarily dismiss all kibble or canned diets out of hand, as the range of what is available is huge. Without knowing what your dog is unable to tolerate, though, it is hard to give a recommendation.

That said, the (admittedly few) folks I know who have switched from BARF to a commercial diet have used Gina and Fritz ( http://www.gina-und-fritz.ch ) and are happy with the results. You might look into something like that.

I know how frustrating dodgy tummy problems are - here's hoping a good solution is quickly found.

In the meantime, I keep a stock of ForteFlora on hand to deal with loose stool days... ask your vet if this is an appropriate thing for you. Be aware, though, that is treating the symptom - in your case I'd want first to get to the cause.

Good luck!
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Old 16.03.2019, 09:22
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

Great to hear you have your little one at home and that the journey went well. Not so good about him throwing up, hope you soon find a solution.

You mentioned the chicken bits from lucky pets were too big, they do sell minced frozen rabbit in one freezer, that’s what we bought for our girl, 2 varieties, one with ground bones included and one without. Our girl also came to us eating raw beef in the mornings and “Defu” kibble in the evening. The breeder sent us home with BARF powdered vitamins and minerals to add to the raw and also feeding oil. We also had to add vegetables to then make it a “complete” diet. A bit of a faff but we did get the hang of it and are still doing the same. We did change her from beef to chicken, rabbit or fish as she also had a few stomach issues which consequently cleared up. The breeder also told us that if she brought back her meal soon after eating and then wanted to re-eat it we should let her 😳.

I have a friend who, whilst living in Engelburg, had a BARF nutritionist help her sort out her labradors skin and ear problems, I will contact her for details and then let you know.

You will find a solution, try not to stress too much.
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Old 16.03.2019, 09:35
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf - http://www.babarf.ch/en/

When applied to the canine world, it refers to how dogs react to hearing a funny joke. A hybrid of “bark” and “arf”. The “no nose” joke normally causes them to yawn.

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People... you do know what "Barf," as in "to barf" means?
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  #31  
Old 16.03.2019, 09:43
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

Thank your for all of the information (again). Yes, I registered him with MyVet and saw Dr Lierau who was lovely. I went to it partly because of a recommendation and partly because I saw you had posted you used them.


Yes, I had heard that GSD have sensitive tummies and on the FB page for all the breeder's puppies I can see there is a history of allergies, although that might be because new owners went away from raw. She was a private breeder who has had only a couple of litters. What was great was that he started life in a home with 4 dogs and 4 kids and we met Mum, Dad, Grandpa and Grandma who all have a lovely temperament. It does mean that she is not really an expert on nutrition and she wasn't giving other supplements just the mince and tripe she got locally and kibble.



I do have the ingredients of the Natural Instinct and I will try with the local butcher. I saw that you suggested VMn so I am going to look at that. Meiko also have salmon oil, which was in his original food.


I am just glad that we were able to use the Natural Instinct for a while because we did get him to Switzerland without him throwing up, even on the Eurotunnel. We finally arrived to Switzerland on Monday night, the evening we ran out of his food.
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Old 16.03.2019, 09:56
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

Oh, if there is a doggie nutritionist that would be brilliant, thank you. Because she wants to monitor allergies, the vet said not to give him rabbit or horse at the moment.



The trip back to Switzerland went fine and we did it over 4 days (combined a couple of business meetings) and found some really nice hotels with patios that went direct from the rooms into the gardens.
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Old 16.03.2019, 10:17
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

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Oh, if there is a doggie nutritionist that would be brilliant, thank you. Because she wants to monitor allergies, the vet said not to give him rabbit or horse at the moment.
I've never used these folks*, so take this as info only:

The Tierspital has a nutritional advice service:
https://www.tierer.uzh.ch/de/service...sberatung.html

It looks like advising on BARF is within their remit. Do make sure you understand the fee structure.


*I have, however, a fair bit of experience with the Tierspital emergency, cardiology, neurology, and lately behavioral medicine specialists. I have been impressed with the vets we have been referred to there, with the level of care, and have felt to be in good hands.
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Old 16.03.2019, 10:31
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

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Oh, if there is a doggie nutritionist that would be brilliant, thank you. Because she wants to monitor allergies, the vet said not to give him rabbit or horse at the moment.



The trip back to Switzerland went fine and we did it over 4 days (combined a couple of business meetings) and found some really nice hotels with patios that went direct from the rooms into the gardens.
Our Golden Retriever also has allergies so she gets cooked horse meat, quinoa, carrots or broccoli with supplements every day. We went to a nutritionist for animals at the University Tierspital in Zurich (www.nutrivet.uzh.ch) and she was able to provide a menu specific to Bella's weight, mobility, other issues and allergies. When we go away to France, Germany and Italy it is not always possible to find horsemeat so we also have a lamb menu option (also from the nutritionist).

If you would like to know the nutritionist's e-mail send me a private message and I can send it to you. She speaks English.
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Old 16.03.2019, 10:52
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

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Our Golden Retriever also has allergies so she gets cooked horse meat, quinoa, carrots or broccoli with supplements every day. We went to a nutritionist for animals at the University Tierspital in Zurich (www.nutrivet.uzh.ch) and she was able to provide a menu specific to Bella's weight, mobility, other issues and allergies. When we go away to France, Germany and Italy it is not always possible to find horsemeat so we also have a lamb menu option (also from the nutritionist).

If you would like to know the nutritionist's e-mail send me a private message and I can send it to you. She speaks English.
I would go with this suggestion, they are connected to the University Hospital so one would think they are the most up to date and will be continually learning from a wide range of sources.

I can ask my friend if you wish me to but I do know they also bought the food off him, not that that is a negative, but he has an “interest” other than just the health of your dog?
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  #36  
Old 16.03.2019, 13:31
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

I’ve never fed barf, but I have fed Gina and Fritz for years (maybe 6 or 7) to our pup. She loves it and seems very healthy, even at 14.5 years. She’s a mix, rescue, probably an Asian spitz.

I like the company too - based in Zug, good customer service.
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Old 17.03.2019, 19:13
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

We've had our share of food challenges with our recently adopted dog.

Finally we found a food he would eat. Dog's Health. It's a moist dry food, so not crunchy, but not the consistency of a wet food.

It is made in Switzerland, and you can buy it directly from the company, or any of the partners listed on their website.

https://www.swissnatural.ch
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Old 18.03.2019, 09:52
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

Thanks everyone for their really helpful replies. Over the weekend I have been making him up chicken and vegetables with salmon oil and barf supplement and he is doing much better. He got so thirsty on the kibble, which then meant that he drank loads and then couldn't sleep through the night.



As he is already 20kg a bit expensive with the food he is now on so will have to find a long term solution or it is going to cost a fortune to feed him! I am definitely going to go to the UniversityTierspital in Zurich, just what I need for advice



Gina and Fritz in Zug is one I will also check out


Thanks again
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Old 18.03.2019, 10:34
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

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Thanks everyone for their really helpful replies. Over the weekend I have been making him up chicken and vegetables with salmon oil and barf supplement and he is doing much better. He got so thirsty on the kibble, which then meant that he drank loads and then couldn't sleep through the night.



As he is already 20kg a bit expensive with the food he is now on so will have to find a long term solution or it is going to cost a fortune to feed him! I am definitely going to go to the UniversityTierspital in Zurich, just what I need for advice



Gina and Fritz in Zug is one I will also check out


Thanks again
Just to let you know, my 24kg pup eats one big jar of Gina and Fritz each day. I have 30 jars delivered each month so that‘s about chf 206 each month. How big do you expect your pup to get? I have only one, very spoiled dog, so i‘m happy to pay the cost. The biggest pain in the backside is recycling all those glass jars.
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Old 18.03.2019, 11:07
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Re: Dog food - review of Babarf

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Just to let you know, my 24kg pup eats one big jar of Gina and Fritz each day. I have 30 jars delivered each month so that‘s about chf 206 each month. How big do you expect your pup to get? I have only one, very spoiled dog, so i‘m happy to pay the cost. The biggest pain in the backside is recycling all those glass jars.
My @20kg dog is on the expensive kibble diet (Orijen) and costs @chf200 for 3 months.
I feed him approx 7:30 and 18:00, and he does drink a lot, but that’s healthy anyway. He’s always been a good drinker actually.
He’s usually done the bulk of his drinking by about 20:00.

Note, he does a lot of ‘sprinkling’ when he’s out and about, so needs to stay topped up for that.
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