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Tomasito 11.12.2018 17:07

Irresponsible pet owner
 
Hello,

So, yesterday I went for a walk and had unpleasant meeting with an angry dog. He was running towards me, then came closer and barked around my legs and looked agressive. I saw the owner, she was quite far from him, but haven't even called him back. Dog persisted with his behaviour so I got angry and started to wave with the backpack at him (yeah, you would probably say that it's not the most clever decision, but I was so angry that the woman doesn't care about her dog and the dog was running around agressively). I'm an animal person, I like dogs too, but if I'm being harassed by the angry dog for my own safety I can easily injure him and not feel guilty at all. Back to the story: so, the woman finally came to me and haven't even said I'm sorry. I asked what the hell she is thinking not doing anything or walking the dog on the leash she said that its normal to walk dogs without it and that she knows her dog really well and he will never do anything to anybody. As far as I know, dogs need to be well trained to come to the owner when called which was not the case this time. So, the question is can I report her to somebody? Is it worth it? I live in a small town in Zurich kanton, I'm walking around a lot, if I will meet her again with an unleashed dog, what would I do? And what happens if he tries to bite and I kick him or sth? Then I will be the evil one?

bigblue2 11.12.2018 17:12

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
well if you try to kick an angry dog at the very least you'll get bit!!

Guest 11.12.2018 17:21

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
Without actually being attacked or injured I'm not sure what you could report, though?

Are you sure it was aggressive at first, and not just boisterous? I guess any dog will become aggressive if you flap your bag at it or make other sudden moves or even go to kick it.

I agree a badly disciplined dog is not safe to have off the lead and could frighten or even injure kids or other dogs.

Are you sure she was calling it back?

omtatsat 11.12.2018 17:42

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomasito (Post 3021873)
Hello,

So, yesterday I went for a walk and had unpleasant meeting with an angry dog. He was running towards me, then came closer and barked around my legs and looked agressive. I saw the owner, she was quite far from him, but haven't even called him back. Dog persisted with his behaviour so I got angry and started to wave with the backpack at him (yeah, you would probably say that it's not the most clever decision, but I was so angry that the woman doesn't care about her dog and the dog was running around agressively). I'm an animal person, I like dogs too, but if I'm being harassed by the angry dog for my own safety I can easily injure him and not feel guilty at all. Back to the story: so, the woman finally came to me and haven't even said I'm sorry. I asked what the hell she is thinking not doing anything or walking the dog on the leash she said that its normal to walk dogs without it and that she knows her dog really well and he will never do anything to anybody. As far as I know, dogs need to be well trained to come to the owner when called which was not the case this time. So, the question is can I report her to somebody? Is it worth it? I live in a small town in Zurich kanton, I'm walking around a lot, if I will meet her again with an unleashed dog, what would I do? And what happens if he tries to bite and I kick him or sth? Then I will be the evil one?


The Law is dogs must be kept on a leash in the following locations:

in public buildings,
on busy roads,
in public transport, at train stations and at stops,
in places that have been signaled by the competent authorities.

And if you bite the dog you can be charged!

Tomasito 11.12.2018 17:45

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
So it's normal here that the dog can run at you and bark around the legs? I'm sure that if I would have continued walking or running he would have bit me.

So next time I need to let him to bite and then I can report about it?

Owner haven't called him at all.

meloncollie 11.12.2018 17:47

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
I'm sorry to hear that the owner did not see that her dog made you uncomfortable and failed to then take appropriate action.

As an FYI in canton Zürich dogs are indeed allowed off lead, unless in an area otherwise signed, or a type of area that falls under the general restriction list. Additionally the federal TSchV encourages off lead exercise for those dogs appropriately trained, where cantonal and local law allows.

But that said, all dog owners should understand that even when cantonal or local law allows off lead running that is not a license to run riot. Dogs must be under control at all times and not bother other people. 'Control' may be either voice control when reliably trained or on lead if training is not yet at the point where recall is reliable and immediate.

There are two legal points: Dogs may be off lead, but also:

9.1 from the ZH cantonal Hundegesetz:

Hunde sind so zu halten, zu führen oder zu beaufsichtigen, dass sie weder Mensch noch Tier gefährden, belästigen oder in der bestimmungsgemässen und sicheren Nutzung des frei zugänglichen Raumes beeinträchtigen und die Umwelt nicht gefährden (§ 9 Abs. 1 HuG/ZH).

(Roughly: Dogs are to be kept, led, or supervised in such a way that they do not endanger, annoy or impair humans or animals in the intended and safe use of publicly accessible areas, and that they do not endanger the environment.)

So if your dog is off lead you must still have him under control at all times. If your dog's recall is imperfect, if your dog tends to run too far from you - time to re-leash.

And even under standard etiquette and basic decency it is obvious that dogs should not be allowed to run up to or contact people with out their permission. Allowing unwanted contact is wrong, ill mannered - and dangerous for both people and dogs. When asked, the polite thing to do is to immediately recall the dog and kept close or on lead.

You can read more about the ZH dog laws in this summary from Tier Im Recht: https://www.tierimrecht.org/de/recht/hunderecht/zurich/

---

If you felt the dog was 'extraordinarily' aggressive and that you were threatened, you could make a report to the cantonal Veterinäramt. Here is the form:
https://veta.zh.ch/internet/gesundhe...170630-def.pdf

(But to be honest, unless you know the name of the owner this is not very likely to go anywhere.)

---

When I encounter difficult owners I have found the easiest way to get the point across is to quote chapter and verse of the cantonal dog law. About half the people I run into say that they had no idea... and many do try to do better next time.

---

Yet again I will mourn the badly thought out decision to do away with the SKN classes, and hope that ZH does not follow suit and do away with the List 1 course requirements. While the former was far from perfect and the latter should have applied to all dog owners regardless of size, mandatory courses at least gave owners the basic information needed to help their dogs live well in our human society. We have seen so much backsliding since the abolition.

Too many dog owners do not understand their responsibilities under federal, cantonal, and local law. Or under basic etiquette and common decency.


---

As to your wanting to kick the dog - that is a very bad idea, for many reasons but not the least because you will likely end up getting hurt.

To understand how both dog owners and non-owners who encounter dogs should comport themselves in order that both groups can live in some semblence of harmony, the ZH Veterinäramt has put out a Code Of Conduct for Dog Owners and Non Owners, conveniently in English:

https://veta.zh.ch/internet/gesundhe...12englisch.pdf

When you find yourself in an uncomfortable situation with a dog, please follow the advice given here.

omtatsat 11.12.2018 17:47

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomasito (Post 3021880)
So it's normal here that the dog can run at you and bark around the legs? I'm sure that if I would have continued walking or running he would have bit me.

So next time I need to let him to bite and then I can report about it?

Owner haven't called him at all.

The dog is just testing you . Come on.

Tomasito 11.12.2018 17:49

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3021879)
The Law is dogs must be kept on a leash in the following locations:

in public buildings,
on busy roads,
in public transport, at train stations and at stops,
in places that have been signaled by the competent authorities.

And if you bite the dog you can be charged!


I was walking near the forest, but it was busy with people. So it means that the dog owner had the right to have the dog without the leash, even though he was running in the field with some vegetables growing.

Tomasito 11.12.2018 17:51

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3021883)
The dog is just testing you . Come on.

Wouldn't you be afraid of the unknown angry dog? If it would have been a guinea pig sized dog then yeah, no problem. But when its knee sized dog it's no joke.

Tomasito 11.12.2018 17:57

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by meloncollie (Post 3021882)
I'm sorry to hear that the owner did not see that her dog made you uncomfortable and failed to then take appropriate action.

As an FYI in canton Zürich dogs are indeed allowed off lead, unless in an area otherwise signed, or a type of area that falls under the general restriction list. Additionally the federal TSchV encourages off lead exercise for those dogs appropriately trained, where cantonal and local law allows.

But that said, all dog owners should understand that even when cantonal or local law allows off lead running that is not a license to run riot. Dogs must be under control at all times and not bother other people. 'Control' may be either voice control when reliably trained or on lead if training is not yet at the point where recall is reliable and immediate.

There are two legal points: Dogs may be off lead, but also:

9.1 from the ZH cantonal Hundegesetz:

Hunde sind so zu halten, zu führen oder zu beaufsichtigen, dass sie weder Mensch noch Tier gefährden, belästigen oder in der bestimmungsgemässen und sicheren Nutzung des frei zugänglichen Raumes beeinträchtigen und die Umwelt nicht gefährden (§ 9 Abs. 1 HuG/ZH).

(Roughly: Dogs are to be kept, led, or supervised in such a way that they do not endanger, annoy or impair humans or animals in the intended and safe use of publicly accessible areas, and that they do not endanger the environment.)

So if your dog is off lead you must still have him under control at all times. If your dog's recall is imperfect, if your dog tends to run too far from you - time to re-leash.

And even under standard etiquette and basic decency it is obvious that dogs should not be allowed to run up to or contact people with out their permission. Allowing unwanted contact is wrong, ill mannered - and dangerous for both people and dogs. When asked, the polite thing to do is to immediately recall the dog and kept close or on lead.

You can read more about the ZH dog laws in this summary from Tier Im Recht: https://www.tierimrecht.org/de/recht/hunderecht/zurich/

---

If you felt the dog was 'extraordinarily' aggressive and that you were threatened, you could make a report to the cantonal Veterinäramt. Here is the form:
https://veta.zh.ch/internet/gesundhe...170630-def.pdf

(But to be honest, unless you know the name of the owner this is not very likely to go anywhere.)

---

When I encounter difficult owners I have found the easiest way to get the point across is to quote chapter and verse of the cantonal dog law. About half the people I run into say that they had no idea... and many do try to do better next time.

---

Yet again I will mourn the badly thought out decision to do away with the SKN classes, and hope that ZH does not follow suit and do away with the List 1 course requirements. While the former was far from perfect and the latter should have applied to all dog owners regardless of size, mandatory courses at least gave owners the basic information needed to help their dogs live well in our human society. We have seen so much backsliding since the abolition.

Too many dog owners do not understand their responsibilities under federal, cantonal, and local law. Or under basic etiquette and common decency.


---

As to your wanting to kick the dog - that is a very bad idea, for many reasons but not the least because you will likely end up getting hurt.

To understand how both dog owners and non-owners who encounter dogs should comport themselves in order that both groups can live in some semblence of harmony, the ZH Veterinäramt has put out a Code Of Conduct for Dog Owners and Non Owners, conveniently in English:

https://veta.zh.ch/internet/gesundhe...12englisch.pdf

When you find yourself in an uncomfortable situation with a dog, please follow the advice given here.

Thanks a lot for the usefull info! It's all clear now. Made my day.

EdwinNL 11.12.2018 18:03

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomasito (Post 3021880)
Owner haven't called him at all.

&

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomasito (Post 3021873)
As far as I know, dogs need to be well trained to come to the owner when called which was not the case this time.

:confused:

Tomasito 11.12.2018 18:08

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
Sorry, I was quite in a rush posting this, made a mistake.
Owner saw everything from the beginning, but haven't called him or at least I haven't heard it.

CherryTree2014 05.01.2019 11:28

Re: Irresponsible pet owner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by meloncollie (Post 3021882)
I'm sorry to hear that the owner did not see that her dog made you uncomfortable and failed to then take appropriate action.

As an FYI in canton Zürich dogs are indeed allowed off lead, unless in an area otherwise signed, or a type of area that falls under the general restriction list. Additionally the federal TSchV encourages off lead exercise for those dogs appropriately trained, where cantonal and local law allows.

But that said, all dog owners should understand that even when cantonal or local law allows off lead running that is not a license to run riot. Dogs must be under control at all times and not bother other people. 'Control' may be either voice control when reliably trained or on lead if training is not yet at the point where recall is reliable and immediate.

There are two legal points: Dogs may be off lead, but also:

9.1 from the ZH cantonal Hundegesetz:

Hunde sind so zu halten, zu führen oder zu beaufsichtigen, dass sie weder Mensch noch Tier gefährden, belästigen oder in der bestimmungsgemässen und sicheren Nutzung des frei zugänglichen Raumes beeinträchtigen und die Umwelt nicht gefährden (§ 9 Abs. 1 HuG/ZH).

(Roughly: Dogs are to be kept, led, or supervised in such a way that they do not endanger, annoy or impair humans or animals in the intended and safe use of publicly accessible areas, and that they do not endanger the environment.)

So if your dog is off lead you must still have him under control at all times. If your dog's recall is imperfect, if your dog tends to run too far from you - time to re-leash.

And even under standard etiquette and basic decency it is obvious that dogs should not be allowed to run up to or contact people with out their permission. Allowing unwanted contact is wrong, ill mannered - and dangerous for both people and dogs. When asked, the polite thing to do is to immediately recall the dog and kept close or on lead.

You can read more about the ZH dog laws in this summary from Tier Im Recht: https://www.tierimrecht.org/de/recht/hunderecht/zurich/

---

If you felt the dog was 'extraordinarily' aggressive and that you were threatened, you could make a report to the cantonal Veterinäramt. Here is the form:
https://veta.zh.ch/internet/gesundhe...170630-def.pdf

(But to be honest, unless you know the name of the owner this is not very likely to go anywhere.)

---

When I encounter difficult owners I have found the easiest way to get the point across is to quote chapter and verse of the cantonal dog law. About half the people I run into say that they had no idea... and many do try to do better next time.

---

Yet again I will mourn the badly thought out decision to do away with the SKN classes, and hope that ZH does not follow suit and do away with the List 1 course requirements. While the former was far from perfect and the latter should have applied to all dog owners regardless of size, mandatory courses at least gave owners the basic information needed to help their dogs live well in our human society. We have seen so much backsliding since the abolition.

Too many dog owners do not understand their responsibilities under federal, cantonal, and local law. Or under basic etiquette and common decency.


---

As to your wanting to kick the dog - that is a very bad idea, for many reasons but not the least because you will likely end up getting hurt.

To understand how both dog owners and non-owners who encounter dogs should comport themselves in order that both groups can live in some semblence of harmony, the ZH Veterinäramt has put out a Code Of Conduct for Dog Owners and Non Owners, conveniently in English:

https://veta.zh.ch/internet/gesundhe...12englisch.pdf

When you find yourself in an uncomfortable situation with a dog, please follow the advice given here.

Once again well written! Thank you.


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