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Old 16.08.2019, 13:43
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Suprelorin - Experience of initial 'load' phase?

Do any of you have experience of the Suprelorin castration chip? I am particularly interested in your experience of your dog's behaviour, especially behavioural changes, during the initial testosterone load phase.

If you have used the chip, might I ask:

At what age did you implant the chip?

What was your dog's character prior to implanting the chip?

(For instance: Confident, easy going, friendly, insecure, low self confidence, anxious, easily frightened, reactive, aggressive?)

What was your dog's behaviour around other dogs like prior to implanting the chip?

On implant - that is, during the load phase (apron 2-4 weeks), did you see a change in behaviour towards other dogs? Towards humans?

Specifically, did you see an increase in reactiveness, 'bullying', hard-headedness, aggressive tendencies during the load phase?

If so, in what circumstances did you see this? Was this towards known dogs? Towards unknown dogs? Towards males? Towards females?

After the load phase, did this changed behaviour decrease?

How long was it before you saw a reduction in the changed behaviour?

How long did you leave the chip implanted?

In hindsight, would you use the Suprelorin chip again?

Any other comments or observations as to your dog's behaviour on Suprelorin would be most helpful.

Many thanks.
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Old 16.08.2019, 15:18
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Re: Suprelorin - Experience of initial 'load' phase?

Sorry that I'm not answering your question, but I'm curious as to why one would choose chemical castration over surgical. It seems far more cruel to me to subject a dog to a lifetime of chemotherapy, rather than a simple surgical procedure that achieves the same effect. Or are you thinking of reversing the castration at some future point, perhaps for breeding purposes?
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Old 16.08.2019, 15:42
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Re: Suprelorin - Experience of initial 'load' phase?

It would be a trial prior to surgical castration.

Long story short, this dog has problem behaviors that contrary to appearance are actually anxiety-based. The behaviorist team, trainers, and vets felt that surgical castration should wait until significant improvement has been seen through behavioral rehab work.

(Research, and a whole lot in-the-trenches experience, has shown that the drop in testoserone via castration can cause regression in dogs whose aggression was/is anxiety-based, hence the current recommendation to work on the behavior before castration.)

The behavior is improving to the point that it is now time to consider castration.

However - surgical castration is, obviously, irreversible. This dog is such a problem case that we are hesitant, thus the suggestion of a trial with chemical castration. If we see that the dog remains stable with chemical castration then we will go ahead with surgical.

However - Supreloren works by initially loading testosterone, in layman's terms 'overloading the fuse in order to blow it'. There have been reports of increased aggressive behavior during the load phase... which also makes us hesitant. The load phase should only be 2 weeks, 4 at the outside, but given the long and difficult road we have been on with behavioral rehab with this dog, we are wary of setbacks.

The alternative castration chip, which works differently, has been recommended against due to side effects.

So weighing up options.

We are consulting with the reproductive specialist and the behavioral specialist at the Tierspital. I think I have a decent understanding of the medical/hormona issues, but would very much appreciate any 'real life' experiences by owners who have actually lived with a dog on Suprelorin.


No way in h*ll this dog would ever be bred from. If I had even the slightest sliver of a worry over that happening it would be off for the snip asap, damn the torpedos.

But since I am not worried about an irresponsible mating, we are trying to do the best for him.
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Old 16.08.2019, 16:19
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Re: Suprelorin - Experience of initial 'load' phase?

meloncollie - I have no advice for you but I want to say hut ab for taking on the hardest of hard cases with your dogs, and for trying to help and educate others with their dogs.

Many owners would throw in the towel and either surrender the animal to a shelter or have it euthanized. You try your best to give every dog the best possible life, even if it's not a dog that lives in your home.

The world could use more caring and compassionate people like you.

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Old 16.08.2019, 21:29
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Re: Suprelorin - Experience of initial 'load' phase?

Aw shucks, thank 'ee kindly ma'am.

I'm just too stubborn to let the Dark Side win, at least not without a fight.

The challenge with this guy is figuring out what the best way forward should be.

---

Being serious, every creature, two legged or four, furred or feathered, deserves a chance at a decent life.

The blessing, sliver lining, call it what you will is that these 'hard cases' teach us so much.
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Old 16.08.2019, 23:01
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Re: Suprelorin - Experience of initial 'load' phase?

Surely the question has to be whether he needs his nuts or not ?


If i remember correctly your dogs are mongrels so no value for breeding purposes as such, so fiddle around with a hit and miss chemical solution or give the guy the chop and end of story.


Will he really miss them, especially if he doesn't use them anyway !


Maybe you could get Omtatsat done at the same time and get discount, a "two for one" type deal
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Old 17.08.2019, 01:00
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Re: Suprelorin - Experience of initial 'load' phase?

TodayOnly, this is a special case.

We are not concerned about use or loss of procreative ability, but rather about potential for hormonal effect on behavior in a dog with existing specific behavior problems.

Let me start by saying that I remain firmly pro-castration for most dogs.

It used to be that most rescues castrated dogs as a matter of policy - afterall, a primary mission is combating overpopulation.

As per my above post, recent research has made many in the rescue community re-think blanket castration policies. We need to look at big picture issues such as overpopulation, but we also need to look at individual issues such as behavioral problems - because both end up in the same place: dead dogs.

Current behavioral theory is somewhat more nuanced. Testosterone is sometimes called a 'confidence' hormone; we are now starting to better understand the extent to which it's presence or absence can impact a range of behaviors, positively or negatively. We now try to take that into account as we look at individual dogs.

If this were a well-balanced dog, he would have been castrated already. If the experts assessed his behavior problems as sexually driven, he would have been castrated already.

The behaviorist team believes that the root cause of this dog's behavior problems is actually anxiety. The advice has to date been against castration for him, given his behavioral problems. He first needed to learn to react to the things that frighten him in an acceptable way before we start messing with his hormones.

Castration could have several outcomes with this dog: Best case, there might be some improvement in some of his behaviors. Neutral case, there would be no impact on his behavior. Worst case there could be a significant regression in his behavior.

Unfortunately there might be no coming back from the worst case. Hence the suggestion of a trial. Chemical castration is reversible should we end up with a worst case outcome, where surgical is not.

Given what is at stake, a trial makes sense.

If the trial is successful, we would then go for surgical castration.

Thus this post: I am concerned about reported side effects during the load phase. It's reported in the research, but I'd like to get beyond the dry numbers and speak with owners who have lived it. Other owner's experience could help develop a plan to manage that phase.

Let me end by saying again: This is a special case. No extrapolation to Dogdom in general is implied or should be assumed.

---

So back to square one: Have any of you used Suprelorin?

Last edited by meloncollie; 17.08.2019 at 02:56.
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Old 05.12.2019, 04:21
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Re: Suprelorin - Experience of initial 'load' phase?

I basically did the same thing as your looking to do. I had a reactive dog that had missed his critical socialisation period. I was worried due to recent research that losing his balls/testosterone could make him worse in regards to fear.

I decided to try the temporary suprelorin as a precursor to the permanency of neutering so I could see what the effects would be like.

I had him in a board and train with my wonderful dog trainer and had been going quite well. He absolutely lost his marbles after the implant for four weeks to the point that she just had to manage the reaction to the implant rather than do any work with him. He was chewing his back legs, licking his bits all night, totally jittery, sooky, Whiney) he’s a very dog anyway but he was much more so and nervous). It all calmed down after 4weeks. 3 weeks being quite bad. He then was really great for 8 months. He is a jack/chi x so very small and it has lasted longer than the 6 months. I hadn’t really thought much about it as he’s been so good. About a month ago after coming so far I his training he lost the plot again. I didn’t put two and two together. I thought it was because we had had two big a week.
He lost his recall, if off leash he started running after and barking at dogs and people again where he’d had a perfect recall in the past,he wouldn’t come to me or my trainer for a cuddle, seemed nervous of everything, fixated on feet and then aggressive toward them, chasing his rear legs again in circles. I was Devestated as he had come so far.
When my trainer came for a lesson she thought perhaps his balls were getting big again. Penny dropped. Anyway. He’s still not perfect but has just had the snip yesterday and is doing well. Am keeping him home till he’s back to his old self and we can get back to building his confidence. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Final note. I might still do the implant but I would have had him desexed before it wore off. Prepare for not doing anything for a few weeks. It might be fine. The vet said they haven’t heard of adverse affects. I won’t go to that vet though.
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Old 05.12.2019, 09:30
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Re: Suprelorin - Experience of initial 'load' phase?

Thanks so much for your insights, Soforth - that's very helpful.

You bring up something I had not considered: A second load phase when re-chipping. Interesting.

A trial of a year was recommended prior to surgical castration, which would mean chipping twice - and the adverse reactions, especially the potential for increased aggressive behaviour, is not something I am keen on experiencing a second time. Given this dog's fragile psychological state I could see a second load phase undoing all the good we hope to have accomplished during the six months the chip is working.


Hmmm... lots to digest.

Might I ask: What is your rationale for re-implanting post surgical castration?


ETA:
Ah, I think I misunderstood that comment. Are you saying that if I choose the implant, plan for surgical neutering prior to the expected end of efficacy of the chip? Yes, that makes sense.


I very much appreciate your comments - other owner's real world experiences are so important. Gosh, all this is such a role of the dice - and with the stakes so high, the thought of getting it wrong is quite worrying.
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Old 08.12.2019, 11:05
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Re: Suprelorin - Experience of initial 'load' phase?

How is your pup recovering, Soforth?

May I ask that you update this thread with your post-surgical castration observations on his behavior in a few weeks, as the testosterone in his system wanes? (IIRC, it usually takes 6 weeks.)

While all my dogs were castrated, at varying ages, most were done either by the rescue just prior to coming to me, or I did it immediately. And while I have had experience working with several fearful or reactive dogs, I have not had the opportunity to observe those fearful or reactive dogs' day to day behavior both pre- and post castration.

I would be very interested in your observations as to your dog's behavior pre vs post, if you would be willing to share that.



(And again, for casual readers: We are talking about specific behavioral cases here. No assumptions or extrapolations to general populations should be made.)
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