Hi,

I would like to buy a dog. After some internet search, I realized that the options in Switzerland are very limited and very expensive, as for several other things. Now I'm thinking about importing dogs from countries where they're not so expensive.
As far as I know, to import a dog from non-EU countries, a enourmous number of vaccines, microchips, and other bureaucracies are required, making the deal not interesting in the end.
Do you have a neighbour country to suggest, where I will not pay a fortune for a dog, and also will be able to get it in a reasonable amount of time?

Thanks,

dj

In terms of importation from an EU country you still have hoops to go through. We imported ours from within the EU and vaccinations, microchip and paperwork was still necessary. Here's a link with more details.
http://www.bvet.admin.ch/themen/0161...x.html?lang=en

If cost is a factor for you have you considered the ongoing costs of owning a dog? Vet bills here are not cheap either and sooner or later your dog will need regular booster vaccinations, tick treatment as well as ongoing treatment for illnesses etc.

Not to mention the cost of dog food which seems always to be going up in price.

Here is an example of medical costs:

Vet Consult: 44 chf
Tick Medication: Scalibor neckband 32 chf (other products are available such as X-spot - not sure about the cost per season on this as I don't use it)
Annual Vaccination: 63.00
De-worming medication (annually) 18 chf
If you get a long haired dog, it might need grooming unless you can do this yourself. Our dogs have short hair but still their basic needs are having their ears cleaned (bottle of ear cleaner is 16 chf) teeth cleaned (doggie toothpaste is recommended) nails cut so you need a pair of trimmers. Once in a while ours get a bath, so you need dog shampoo.

You will also need a collar, a leash, and possibly a cage for the car. At home your dog will appreciate a dog bed. Many of these items you can shop around for, especially dog cages for the car which are very expensive new.

Oh, yes, registration fee for your dog at the Gemeinde - we paid 100 chf.
I think that must cover the cost of replenishing the bags at the Robi Dog and paying the people who must empty it too.

If your dog gets sick or injured, the costs are very high for dianosis and treatment. If you wait to take the dog to the vet, this can have serious consequences.

If you buy a puppy, there is the possiblity of buying health insurance though I am not familiar with this as we could have have take advantage of this.

Why not consider adopting a dog from one of the rescue organizations here? It's not free, but nowhere near the costs of what you will pay a breeder. There are a lot of dogs needing homes. You might just find a dog at a shelter that needs a home (that's what happened to us...three times). Just because a dog is at a shelter doesn't mean there is something "wrong" with the dog. In many cases, it was just not in the right environment.

I can see the responses coming now from the pro breeder members...that is just not for everyone.

__________________

Mrs Doolittle is spot on - if you are concerned about costs at this stage, please think twice. The cheapest thing about dog ownership is the purchase price/adoption fee.

(As my husband often grumbles, all our disposable income goes to the mutts... )

Of course, I'm going to second Mrs. D's recommendation - please do consider a rescue dog. So many fantastic dogs in need of good homes... But don't choose the rescue option because of discounted prices - consider a rescue because you want to give a dog the happy home he/she so desperately needs - and deserves.

But if you do feel that a breeder is the right option for your family, please choose a reputable, ethical breeder in good standing with the FCI and with his/her peers, who breeds only for the improvement of the breed - and for whom the lifelong welfare of his/her dogs is paramount.

If you are a novice to the European 'dog scene' (for lack of a better term), I would be cautious when purchasing a dog from a breeder out of the country. You need to do your research carefully, you will need to visit any good breeder at least once before you sign the contract, and it is likely that several visits will be required.

There are indeed very good FCI breeders throughout the EU - but make sure you understand who is reputable, and who is a charlatan. And the best way to assess a breeder is a face to face meeting or three... And of course, you want to meet the sire and dam, see the conditions the dogs are kept in, see how the puppies have been socialized, etc.

The same goes for a shelter - you will be required to visit at least once, and often several times before bringing home your pooch. You want to ensure that this dog is right for you - and the rescue will want to ensure that you are right for their dog.

Both a good rescue and a good breeder will want to check your home situation and references - cross border purchase/adoption can add complications - and expense.

So when you add in travel costs, suddenly that 'bargain' dog costs a lot more...

I've adopted several dogs from rescues outside Switzerland - but I go into it with my eyes (and wallet!) open.

By the way, anyone who will ship a dog to a purchaser sight unseen is NOT a good breeder. That's the first sign of a puppy mill.

I volunteer with a breed rescue that is active through out the EU - and in the last few years have seen an influx of dogs (pure bred) coming in from puppy mills. Recently it seems that we are getting increased numbers of 'milled' dogs from eastern Europe, but (tragically) puppy mills can be found most countries. These are the suppliers of 'bargain' dogs.

These puppy mills pretend to be reputable breeders, many have slick websites, push all the right buttons, some are even FCI members - but don't be fooled - the dogs are bred in horrific conditions, with little thought to health or temperament. The poor dogs are often sick, un- or under socialized, abused. Please don't support this vile trade - purchasing a puppy from these hell holes condemns another dog to a life of misery.

Yes, acquiring a dog - either from a reputable breeder (CHF thousands) or from a rescue (CHF hundreds) is expensive. But how can you put a price on the joy a dog brings into your life?

Bingo! Our dog has cost us a lot of money over the last few years, but she has been worth every penny!

Hi,

Thank you all for the oppinions. As a completely "novice to the European dog scene", I don't know exaclty how a dog shelter works, and my awareness just covered breeders and their prices over a thousand swiss francs before starting this thread.
Putting the joy of owning a dog aside for a moment, one of my concerns is also do not sponsor somebody who asks for such bloated price.
Thanks also for the costs sample, it's very interesting. Seems to me that a dog should not cost much more than CHF 1000 a year, right?

Cheers,

dj

Yeah, right! You don't understand the doggie economics!!

Before a puppy leaves the house how much to you thing we've spent on vet fees, double vaccines, de-worming every two weeks, rabies vaccine, microchip, all the paper work, the stud fee, puppy classes at CHF45 per pup per class, never mind the sleepless nights, hours of playing, socializing & potty training, etc..... The pups don't learn this all alone!! If a breeder isn't spending all this time & money on the puppy, you don't want it!

Not to mention, if some one isn't willing to pay a serious price for a puppy, they are not serious owners. I've seen pure breed puppies dropped of at the SPA. Clearly those puppies were not expensive enough. If they were, they would not have found themselves at the SPA!

There are very few breeders making a living breeding dogs.

__________________

You could rack that up in no time if your little pal gets sick and needs to see a vet who puts him on a course of drugs. If you have no family to look after your dog when you go away you will also have to think about kennel fees (we pay CHF 25 per day).

And although the question is about importing a dog, are you a person who is going to be around most of the day?
A lot of dogs end up in rescue centres because they are so bored all day and have no stimulation - so start to be destructive - which in turn angers the owners who then cannot cope and the dog ends up in rescue.
The lovely puppy can end up being an out of control teenager!

I am not suggesting that that is your circumstance but I have seen too many dogs ending up in rescue because they have been bought and then left for 10 hours a day - that is no life.

I would think CHF 1000 per year would be a bit low...

To add to Mrs Doolittle's examples from my own experience:

Food:

A 15kg bag of decent quality complete kibble ranges from ca CHF 75 to 120, depending on brand. Raw feeding can be very expensive here, as you can probably guess from the price of meat. Getting to know a farmer or ingratiating yourself with your local butcher can help bring the cost of raw feeding down.

My guys eat about 10g/kg of kibble per day; how much any individual needs varies by size, age, metabolism, activity level, etc. - some dogs need less, some more than that. Do the math for the adult size of the breed you are interested in to get a very rough idea of food costs.

Stop by your local Fressnapf or Qualipet to get an idea of the cost of the various kinds of food, treats, etc.

Health Care:

Spaying/neutering (one-off cost, obviously): CHF 800 (routine spay of a young, healthy 15 kg dog) to CHF 2500 (complicated neutering/tumor removal of a middle aged 25kg dog) to CHF 7000 (emergency spay/ intensive care of an elderly dog critically ill with pyometra). I don't know what routine neutering of a healthy male would cost, as I've never had one of those round here...

(Please have your new dog neutered; in addition to being the responsible thing given the over population problem, the two awful illnesses above could have been avoided if the dogs' original owners had had them spayed/neutered when young.)

Yearly routine veterinary costs: Ranging from quite inexpensive at about CHF 250 (young, healthy dog) to rather painful at ca. CHF 4000 (elderly dog with lots of chronic problems - most of which are genetic*.)

*See my above post re: responsible breeders. A good breeder carefully selects the parent dogs, with goal of producing healthy dogs of sound temperament. A puppy farmer/ back yard or 'bargain' breeder often does not do the necessary health screening of the parents and pays little attention to genetics - resulting in dogs like my poor boy. He's a stunningly beautiful collie... who started to lose the use of his back legs in middle age (HD/CDRM), who is almost blind (PRA), and for whom many drugs used to treat common illnesses are toxic (MDR1-/-). Come the revolution, the (insert expletive here) who decided to throw this dog's parents together would be among my candidates for first up against the wall...

Additionally, I'd counsel any dog owner to keep a few thousand aside to cover the unexpected. Things happen - and you don't want to be worried about funding when your canine friend needs emergency treatment. There are pet health insurance plans available, but we found the premiums so expensive and coverage so restrictive that insurance made no sense for us.

Training:

Be aware that as of 1 Sept 2008 a new federal animal welfare law comes into force. As of that date, all first time dog owners will be obligated to attend a theory course before you acquire a dog. Additionally, all owners who acquire a dog after that date will be required to attend a certain number of training classes in the first year of ownership. I have no idea what these new obligatory courses will cost, but, as this is Switzerland, I'm guessing they won't exactly be cheap... I'd budget a few hundred for these, to be on the safe side.

To give you an idea, the training school we go to charges CHF 350/10 lessons for level 1 of the basic obedience course, 275/10 lessons for level 2 of the basic course, 15 per hour (or an abo at 600/year) for Familienhund group classes, 25 per hour for special training seminars, 35-50 per hour for private lessons. I'd guess that's pretty much average pricing - although I've seen some trainers charging quite a bit more.

Most of my dogs do a Familienhund or Senior course, and then I continue working with them on my own, so training costs are reasonable. However I've decided that my young hooligan needs a more structured approach - so between Familienhund, Agility and Team Training I end up spending in the range of a few thousand per year on training activities for her. I look at this as a long term investment...

Taxes, Liability Insurance:

Almost all cantons impose a dog tax (ca 100-150 per dog per year) and many require an owner to carry personal liability insurance of 3 million + cover. The premiums for this aren't expensive - I pay about CHF 50 per year for cover of 5 million.

If you live in a canton where BSL is in force, and you have a listed breed or cross, you might have to pay some fairly high permit fees. (But that's a whole 'nuther discussion...)

Dog Care:

Most dog owners at some point find the need to travel where it is not appropriate to bring the dog along - for which you'll need a dog care solution. There are many threads running on this subject - have a look. A good dog sitter is hard to find - and expensive.

Other:

Then there are the other expenses my dogs have necessitated:

Purchase of a home with fenced in garden
Re-landscaping said garden after dogs turned it into a moonscape
Renovation of said home after dogs turned their paws to interior decoration
Standing order for wine and chocolate to placate the non-dog loving neighbors
Etc., etc.


As I said at the beginning, the purchase price/adoption fee is the cheapest thing about dog ownership. But I can't imagine a life with out a dog (or two or three) curled up at my feet.

ETA:

I don't want to give the impression that my collie's health has anything to do with the fact that he is a rescue. Quite the contrary. I intentionally chose each of my dogs, knowing of any issues beforehand, because I felt each would be a good fit for our family. Most dogs in shelters are in good health, or have been nursed back to health.

The two reasons most dogs end up in shelters are: over population - more dogs are bred than there are homes for them to go to. Secondly, too many people do not make a serious commitment to dog ownership; too many are unwilling or unable to stand by the responsibilities they took on when taking on a dog.

While I wish more people would consider adding a dog (referably via rescue ) to their families, one must first understand that a dog is not a disposable item - anyone thinking of taking on a dog must realize that this is a long term commitment.

You have to ask yourself, are you prepared to do whatever it takes to ensure your dog's welfare, whatever path your life takes you on in the next 15 years?

The BVet has issued a good pamphlet 'Augen Auf Bein Hundekauf' (Eyes open when buying a dog) covering many of the issues you should think about as you are considering dog ownership:

http://www.bvet.admin.ch/themen/tier...x.html?lang=de

click on 'Augen auf beim Hundekauf' for the broschure in pdf format.


Best of luck to you in your search...

I must state that my dogs are both rescue dogs, both seem to be pedigree and came from different sources (one USA and one from www.spald.ch). In fact over 3 years later, his image is still in their banner (far-right).

The cost to feed the two of them isn't too bad (in my opinion). One is medium-small and one is medium-large and they nosh on Pedigree-branded food. I'd estimate, excluding treats, that they cost about 25 francs per week to feed.

I actually think vet treatment here is quite reasonable; they get annual checkup and shots for about 80 each and I worm them 4 x yearly. The threat of worms and ticks is moving north as the average temperature climbs - and they are in the woods in Ticino at least once a month.

One dog had multiple teeth removed and a full narcosis and the op cost about 160 francs. The price of getting him from Spald was 300 which covered treating a broken leg and chopping his nuts off.

The pleasure I get from the welcome when I get home is immeasureable. The dogs are left most of the day alone and have benefitted from being together. They are LAZY dogs so can cope - a Cocker Spaniel would have gone insane long ago.

My dogs fall into BSL which means I don't take them certain places (Zurich being one of them) as they must be muzzled in public. Yes, I think this is retarded as the 0.1% of dogs which are a danger result in 100% of the dogs of the breed looking dangerous. And of course the irresponsible owner won't care to put on the muzzle (duh).

By far the biggest problem is care for the dogs when you're on vacation. Kennels are not ideal, live-in dogsitters are expensive and friends (and sometimes family) can't be relied upon. We've actually taken them on holiday with us and that was good.

A dog is for life - not just for Christmas. Do remember that simple phrase (from a UK TV campaign years ago).

Research the breed, check if it meets with your lifestyle - and never consider doing something to save money with your pet as you're suggesting. If you're longing for a pet then offer first to look after someone elses - but then there will be regulations affecting you doing that shortly. And factor in that I would not leave my pets with you unless I was sure you were capable...

Couldn't agree more. It took us ages to find a decent boarding kennel here. Our dogs love the one we use but we had to widen our search into the next Canton until we found somewhere, or more importantly someone, we trusted.

Hi,

Thank you all for the costs breakdown. I forgot to mention that I was not considering the food price in the CHF 1000/year estimative. I know how much a Yorkshire and a Great Dane eat, and I know this can vary a lot.

Regarding the kennel subject, I'm planning to take the future small dog with me in my winter travels. Do you have experiences with dogs in a plane? Do the airlines treat them well? Is it ok to the dog to stay in a cage for around 10 hours (I know it also depends on the dog, but I just would like to have an idea)?

Thanks,

dj

My husband and I want to adopt a puppy but the options in Switzerland seem limited (even for buying). We are close to Italy so we are looking there as they seem to have an overabundance of puppies who need homes. Most of the organizations I've looked at seem home-run by compassionate people. Are there any pitfalls or hidden risks or are these places for the most part reputable? I've been in touch with the Swiss organization that works with a shelter in Southern Italy but I want to see if I could do it on our own as well for more options. Has anyone adopted from Italy and can speak as to their experience? We are firmly decided on a dog (and all that comes with it) but we want it from very young puppy and are not considering an older dog this time around.

I am not sure why the "thanks" option is not working for me but there are many excellent posts on here that I have nothing much more to add except to stress on one point that melloncollie has already brought up - on top of food, treats, classes, vaccinations, toys, grooming -- the "accidental costs" is a key factor into your monthly / yearly budget for a dog.

Dogs, young or old, tend to get into unexpected scrapes - example: getting the runs from eating something undesirable off the ground or stepping on broken glass and it will require emergency trips to the vet. Whilst we as owners try our best to be on our toes whilst out with them for walks, unfortunate 'accidents' like that do happen.

No offence, but it is really a misconception on your part that the Swiss breeders are inflating their prices for profit - it is alot of work bringing up a healthy, socialised pup. The breeders I've spoken to so far have been nothing but excellent and are extremely passionate about their own breeds.

Have you tried Germany? Some of the breeders do already provide the microchip and EU dog passport if you are going down the breeder route - though you really have to keep a sharp eye out, spotting the puppy mills and backyard breeders.

Also, rescue dogs have 'issues' only because we humans think so. I believe that for any dog, patience and tenacity will correct any inappropriate behaviour in time. Many dogs are misunderstood and euthanised only because we, humans rule them out as problematic and impossible to teach. I apologise if I am digressing but my dog is going through dog school at the moment and 2 of his classmates are around 7-8 months, are both now with their second owners because according to their first owners, they are unruly.

Most dogs are given up during their adolescent stage as they suddenly turn into this monster that you dont recognise - not listening to you and blasting Green Day from their crates. You will suddenly wonder what happened to that sweet puppy that sleeping on your lap.

So make sure you do alot of reading up and understand that, as puppyhood will fly by in a wink of an eye. Their fluff will disappear and they'll turn into this gangly teenager, minus the pimples.

Whether its a rescue dog or getting one from the breeder, dont let the time (to get the dog) or money factor distract you. Its the commitment to do continuous reading and research to keep up with your dog and the work truly begins when the dog enters your house as you will be their world for the next 10-15 years of their /your life.

Good luck and I hope you'll find the right dog for you and your family soon.

__________________
Remember when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown, BUT it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and b****-slap the mother-f***er upside the head.

I think 'Thanks' button is only available for posts up to a fortnight old. Pity - this Thread has great posts in it.

I've dropped Nicky a line to ask her to move this Thread to Pets - just in case it gets missed. Probably partly my fault it's still here, as Pets was created in my Modding time and I should have shoved it to the new Forum.

Hi Yuffish,

I'm so glad to hear that you are considering adoption - the need in Italy is so great - so many dogs, too few homes available. It is truly heartbreaking.

I adopted one of my dogs from Italy - I saw his picture and dossier online, and went directly to the Italian shelter. And I would gladly do so again.

Are there hidden pitfalls? I'd say no - but then, I have a fair bit of experience with both dogs and rescue, and I feel confident assessing for myself whether a dog is generally healthy, or in need of immediate care, training, socialization, etc. How comfortable are you? Do you have previous experience with dogs, have you adopted a rescue dog before? The only reason I ask is because back-up from a rescue can be more difficult from a distance. However, if you are an experienced dog owner, or if you establish a good support system here (training classes, a good vet, etc.) this isn't really an issue.

As with any dog, behaviors exhibited at the shelter (as well as with a breeder) may differ from those exhibited in your home after the dog has become comfortable with his or her new environment. One should expect that it takes a few weeks to months for a dog's true character to emerge, especially if he/she has been in a stressful environment like a shelter. But with a young puppy you may have less of that.

And be aware that there is a possibility that health concerns that could not have been seen while at the shelter might later arise . But again, this is true for any dog, whether from a shelter or breeder..

Things to consider - ask the staff for as much information as possible about the puppy's parents, previous life, and the how he/she came to be in the shelter. If a puppy was taken from his or her mother too soon behavioral issues could arise later - but on the other hand, one of my dogs came to me as a 4 week old pup, barely weaned - and grew into the best natured, most self confident dog in the world. Just be prepared to do extra socialization work if needed.

Coming from Italy (and all of southern Europe), Leishmaniosis is a serious concern - all dogs should be tested. (I'm not sure how old a puppy must be before testing.) Many shelters already test the dogs - talk to the staff. And, please do read up on the disease. Leishmaniosis can be managed, but not cured. My dog from Spain was positive, but remained asymptomatic throughout his life. He needed meds his entire life, though. Also be aware that here in Switzerland some old school thinking about Leishmaniosis still persists - if you are considering adopting a Leishmaniosis positive dog, do make sure your vet is up to date on managing the condition.

One thing that has been a minor hassle in adopting from abroad is the Swiss bureaucracy registering the dog with ANIS. If the dog is already chipped, the old owner (the shelter) has to initiate the transfer form, and a shelter abroad naturally won't have those on hand. To make it easier on yourself, take all the ANIS forms with you for the shelter to sign upon completion of the adoption contract. Also, be aware that some rescues retain legal ownership of the dog, you are the holder, not the legal owner. I have found that this clause has had little day to day effect on me or my dogs, but if this is the case with the dog you are considering, do talk with the rescue as to how this condition might impact a cross-border adoption.

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You could also work through one of the Swiss or German organizations who help try to place dogs from Italy - one in Switzerland is SOS-Strassenhund:

http://www.sos-strassenhunde.ch/

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One thing I have learned through volunteer work liasing with rescues in southern and eastern Europe: what you see may shock you if you are used to Swiss standards - but one cannot always judge 'reputability' by the way the kennels look, by the material things. Many shelters in southern and eastern Europe are fighting an uphill battle with almost no financial resources; many are run on a wing and an prayer and the kindness of strangers - but also with genuine love for the dogs in their care. Some of these shelters are not able to provide the things we might expect from a Swiss rescue (expensive medical assessment/ treatment, behavioral rehabilitation, back-up etc), but most do the best they can with what little they have. And for that, they have my utmost respect. In judging reputability, talk to the staff, and go with your heart.

There are also killing stations. These are pounds/holding centers, not shelters. A strong stomach is usually required if you visit one of these. BUT... these dogs are also in desperate need, as the clock is ticking.

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To import a dog from Italy, you will need an EU pet passport with up to date vacs according to the BVet website:

http://www.bvet.admin.ch/themen/0161...x.html?lang=en

Many shelters will have already started this process and the dogs are ready to go. But should you need help with this, post here again.

Do be aware of the Swiss docking/cropping ban, and of recent changes to the BSL in TI when making your choice.

And do be aware of the new federal Animal Welfare law in Switzerland - if you are a first time owner you need to attend a recognized theory course before you acquire your dog. All owners then need to take the practical course within 12 months of adoption.

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Wishing you all the best in your search - may you and your soon-to-be new best friend have many happy years together.

I am attending the practical BVET courses at the moment - they cost 25 CHF per hour and you'll need to go through five sessions which lasts about an hour each. Price of the course varies from BVET approved trainers.

As for the theory course (if you are a first time dog owner), its 3 sessions which lasts two hours each for about 120 CHF.

Hope this info helps!

What I really need here is practical info on adopting/importing from Italy or EU countries (or buying if we end up going to a breeder). Thanks Summerrain for your important points about dogs, but it's not what I need. The limit for Switzerland is the availability - there don't seem to be any of the breed we want for purebred or puppies to adopt (I have done my research and seem to have exhausted possibilites in this country for what we want). My husband and I are experienced dog owners/raisers and we are making a fully informed decision. We don't need a lecture or re-iteration of what's been said. If you've ever adopted/bought a puppy from another EU country (France or Italy in particular) and brought it to Switzerland, please post your experience or advice. We're looking for a medium size dog that would like the water and walks (considering a brittany for pure breed or a mutt for adoption). But it is very important to both of us that all our pets grow up from a young age with the family.

Right, I am sorry if its coming across as a lecture but I wasnt actually directing that post at you.

Whilst I cannot share my experience about buying / adopting a puppy from Italy or France, I empathise with what you're going through re the availability situation as I've just been through that myself. Its frustrating.

I can see that you are looking for a brittany and they are indeed rare here. Fingers crossed, you'll never know some of the gem of information that turn up on this forum.