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  #21  
Old 29.01.2020, 22:58
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

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Of course what came first we shall never know. Perhaps in my village there was a mean old dog a few years back and everyone got in the habit of keeping their dogs on a leash and disallowing contact with other dogs. Who knows. But I actively seek out friends in other communes with dogs so that I can give my girl her doggie social time. Our training club does “pack walk” type activities too. If t weren’t for that she would be leash agressive herself lol.
What you describe in your post makes complete sense, and its exactly what I would expect from everything I've read and experienced.

Pack walks sound fun - I'll have to look into that. I think my dog would get a huge kick out of it. When he is at doggie daycare, they tell us he goes around and plays with every single other dog. He's mister social.
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Old 29.01.2020, 23:05
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

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We have a friendly, high energy dog.
This could possibly be the reason that you find many other dog-owners prefer to keep their dogs on the leash and at a distance from your dog. Or at least their caution that the "high energy" could add up, with the attributes they know about their own dog, to something that escalates into danger.

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He needs almost daily romps off-leash. A garden would be wholly insufficient, as would occasional visits to a Hundeschule.
I hope, for you and your dog, that you can find a "pack" activity, such as AnnaSophia mentions.
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Old 29.01.2020, 23:48
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

It occurred to me that you, OP, may be an experienced dog-owner who is has grown up in a culture or environment in which "everyone" had dogs, for generations.

In Switzerland, however, there are many people whose families never really had anything to do with dogs, over generations. This can even apply to dog-owners, as some start out owning their first dog having never before lived anywhere near a dog. Such a person is, understandably, perhaps likely to be less able to interpret the behaviour of other dogs, and correspondingly cautious.

Here's something of an explanation of the relative doglessness (compared to some other countries) of many people's lives in Switzerland:
https://www.englishforum.ch/3004063-post35.html
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Old 30.01.2020, 12:11
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

Hi OP,

I've got to say, my dog (2.5 year old Chihuahua) fully agrees with you as he is extremely friendly and LOVES literally everyone, kids & babies included, cats and other living beings.

He normally doesn't make a sound but the ONLY times he barks (and it would be once, like "woof!" and not "woof woof woof etc" and not even every time, but once in a while) or a low growl, is when we meet another dog on the street and he soooo wants to say "hi!" but the other owner just pulls and keeps walking and passes him by. So the "woof!" comes right after it passes him.

It never upset me that the other owner/dog didn't greet as I can understand everyone has his/her reason - as I wrote in my previous post - but my super duper friendly pooch gets disappointed every now and then. Well, such is life I say to him

I need to be careful about letting him greet larger dogs though, because he is so small, and a seemingly friendly large dog can change in a second and try to snap. Like others have said in their post, the owner of a dog that has bitten usually acts REALLY surprised and say "he's never done that before!" but for a very small dog, it can mean his life...
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Old 30.01.2020, 12:13
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

Why don´t you contact the Viszla club in Switzerland ViszlaMoose?


Friend of mine has a lovely but very very active Viszla and goes to some outings with the Viszla club.
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Old 30.01.2020, 13:06
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

OP may see his dog as super friendly Mr Social who only wants to play but should understand that some other dogs may feel threatened and fearful when a large boisterous creature comes charging towards them invading their space. On a leash, they don’t have the ability to escape so their reactiveness is not them being ill tempered and aggressive but trying to communicate “leave me alone” in the only way they know how.



It is a complete nonsense for OP to decide that they cannot be happy and content dogs, that the owner is unethical and imprisoning them for walking them on a leash and they are poorly socialised animals who “at any moment could be a threat to the owners and their family, other people, and other people's dogs.” Not only is it nonsense but it is insulting to dog owners who decide that it is in the best interests of their dog to be on a leash.



OP says his dog has been bitten on more than one occasion but seems to suggest the other owners are at fault because they haven’t socialised their dog. Perhaps it is the fault of OP who is allowing their dog to boisterously romp around and approach other dogs not heeding the warning signs from those dogs that they do not like that style of play and do not want further interaction. Rather than taking their dog away because he is super friendly and only wants to play, he allows the situation to escalate into a bite.


There are many aspects to socialisation beyond off-leash play. Dogs should be slowly and gently introduced to new sight, sounds and smells in various environments as well as to people, children and other dogs. One negative encounter with a big boisterous dog at an early age can have lasting impact on a puppy


OP cherry picks and quotes the article summary that he linked. The author is comparing free-roaming dogs in Belize, later describes a dog who has become fearful because they had been over socialised by her owners who believed “all dogs must get along with each other and with every person they meet“ and also states that dog parks are not for every dog. When read in full it is a good read


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Old 30.01.2020, 13:30
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

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Hi OP,

I need to be careful about letting him greet larger dogs though, because he is so small, and a seemingly friendly large dog can change in a second and try to snap. Like others have said in their post, the owner of a dog that has bitten usually acts REALLY surprised and say "he's never done that before!" but for a very small dog, it can mean his life...

It is not only a case of a larger dog snapping at a little one. They can just be too rough and boisterous and accidentally hurt the little one with their weight.
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Old 30.01.2020, 22:26
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

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It occurred to me that you, OP, may be an experienced dog-owner who is has grown up in a culture or environment in which "everyone" had dogs, for generations.

In Switzerland, however, there are many people whose families never really had anything to do with dogs, over generations. This can even apply to dog-owners, as some start out owning their first dog having never before lived anywhere near a dog. Such a person is, understandably, perhaps likely to be less able to interpret the behaviour of other dogs, and correspondingly cautious.

Here's something of an explanation of the relative doglessness (compared to some other countries) of many people's lives in Switzerland:
https://www.englishforum.ch/3004063-post35.html
Absolutely agree. Many of my swiss friends with dogs never had dogs and never grew up with dogs. Even many are somewhat afraid of dogs but their husband wanted one etc. Compared to my experience in the Midwest, where many people had dogs and even if they didn’t necessarily love dogs at least knew about dog behavior and had basic dog skills.

I often am still taken aback by how many Swiss adults are terrified of dogs and have never been around dogs other than walking past the odd farm dog. Indeed I recently met a fellow villager who went into a panic attack when her young lab play barked at my two year old Appenzeller. The two wanted to play but the woman grabbed her dog by the collar and was screaming “she’s never been agressive before!” I tried to gently educate her that the bark was simply an invitation to play, coupled conveniently with a play bow by both dogs at that very moment. The woman continued to hold her own dog and was extremely stressed. Both dogs began barking out of frustration and I gave up on the woman and recalled my dog and left immediately. I would never experience anything like that where I grew up.
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  #29  
Old 30.01.2020, 22:51
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

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It is a complete nonsense for OP to decide that they cannot be happy and content dogs, that the owner is unethical and imprisoning them for walking them on a leash and they are poorly socialised animals who “at any moment could be a threat to the owners and their family, other people, and other people's dogs.” Not only is it nonsense but it is insulting to dog owners who decide that it is in the best interests of their dog to be on a leash.
I'm not just deciding this. It's based on a lot of reading, studying, and experience. Imagine if you forbade a child from playing with other kids or running around. I think most people would say that is wrong (abusive?) and the child will have a hard time learning social skills. Kids need to play with other kids and run around. It's the same with dogs (with some exceptions, such as an injured dog). Obviously you need to use discretion, but yes, I absolutely believe dog owners have an ethical obligation to socialize their dogs and to let them play (assuming the dog is healthy and well behaved). Not socializing dogs makes it more likely dogs will develop behavioral issues such as aggression and reactivity. Once a dog has those behavioral issues, they are more likely to cause a problem, potentially spontaneously without warning.

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OP says his dog has been bitten on more than one occasion but seems to suggest the other owners are at fault because they haven’t socialised their dog. Perhaps it is the fault of OP who is allowing their dog to boisterously romp around and approach other dogs not heeding the warning signs from those dogs that they do not like that style of play and do not want further interaction. Rather than taking their dog away because he is super friendly and only wants to play, he allows the situation to escalate into a bite.
This is simply false. You are being presumptuous about what happened and what I allow my dog to do. Both instances happened suddenly, without any warning from the aggressor, in off-leash settings. One dog had a history of biting. I can't know for sure whether the problem resulted from poor socialization, but we do know that poor socialization makes the odds of behavioral problems more likely. Do you think that is controversial?

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OP cherry picks and quotes the article summary that he linked. The author is comparing free-roaming dogs in Belize, later describes a dog who has become fearful because they had been over socialised by her owners who believed “all dogs must get along with each other and with every person they meet“ and also states that dog parks are not for every dog. When read in full it is a good read
I've never before heard cherry picking described as quoting the main thesis of an article summarized in the closing paragraph. Specifically, the author says we "owe" (i.e., have an obligation) dogs "a good social education".

You do point out one line from the article that is worth highlighting. The author does state not all dogs should go to dog parks. The reason? "If your dog has a history of aggression or fear, do not take them to dog parks." Well, there aren't really dog parks in Switzerland, but we can still apply the principle. If you have a dog with behavioral issues, please think twice before taking it to popular areas for off-leash dog walking.
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Old 30.01.2020, 23:00
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

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Absolutely agree. Many of my swiss friends with dogs never had dogs and never grew up with dogs. Even many are somewhat afraid of dogs but their husband wanted one etc. Compared to my experience in the Midwest, where many people had dogs and even if they didn’t necessarily love dogs at least knew about dog behavior and had basic dog skills.

I often am still taken aback by how many Swiss adults are terrified of dogs and have never been around dogs other than walking past the odd farm dog. Indeed I recently met a fellow villager who went into a panic attack when her young lab play barked at my two year old Appenzeller. The two wanted to play but the woman grabbed her dog by the collar and was screaming “she’s never been agressive before!” I tried to gently educate her that the bark was simply an invitation to play, coupled conveniently with a play bow by both dogs at that very moment. The woman continued to hold her own dog and was extremely stressed. Both dogs began barking out of frustration and I gave up on the woman and recalled my dog and left immediately. I would never experience anything like that where I grew up.
This story breaks my heart. If that lady doesn't learn about dog behavior and socialization quickly, she could very well end up with a maladjusted dog. That dog is learning it is not allowed to communicate its intentions with another dog and is also almost certainly reading the lady's stress. This is going to confuse the heck out of that poor dog and it therefore won't learn how to properly interact with its fellow canines.

I often wonder if many Swiss are afraid of dogs because they have met a number of aggressive dogs, which are unfortunately often aggressive because they haven't been well-socialized. It's a vicious circle.
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  #31  
Old 31.01.2020, 00:39
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

Here is what the Zug (the OP’s location according to the profile) cantonal website has to say about dog etiquette and interaction in the canton (see: Zuger Hund):

https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/gesundhe...de/zuger-hunde

First the canton points out that as ZG does not have a Hundegesetz, the default is to the federal TSchV. (SR 455.1, articles 68-79, here: https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...796/index.html ) and then to the individual Gemeinden.

The website goes on to say that in canton ZG, unless otherwise signed, it is recommended that dogs be kept on lead in the following places:

In public buildings, including train stations and bus stops.
In restaurant and stores
In residential areas
In the forests and near forest areas
Near places designated as play or sports areas
Near heavily trafficked streets
In conservation areas (Naturschutzgebiete) - dogs must be on lead in areas so designated, and in some conservation areas dogs are forbidden.
At dusk and through the night.

Do not bring your dog in the following places:

In school grounds and playgrounds
In play and sports areas
In cemeteries
In public swimming spots

Furthermore the cantonal website highlights the following:

Halten Sie Ihren Hund jederzeit so unter Kontrolle, dass er weder andere Personen noch Tiere gefährdet. Sorgen Sie dafür, dass Ihr Hund andere Personen weder durch anhaltendes Gebell noch durch Geheul oder auf andere Art und Weise belästigt.

Korrekte Hundebegnungen laufen gemäss der Schweizerischen Kynologischen Gesellschaft SKG grundsätzlich wie folgt ab: Kommt einem ein Hund entgegen, der an der Leine geführt oder von seinem Besitzer auf den Arm genommen wird, ruft man auch den eigenen zu sich und leint ihn an. Der andere Hundebesitzer wird Gründe für sein Verhalten haben. Bei Begegnungen mit Zwerghunden ist immer besondere Vorsicht geboten: Junge, stürmische und grosse Hunde müssen dabei besonders gut unter Kontrolle gehalten werden. Ist man mit mehreren Hunden unterwegs und trifft auf einen einzelnen, lässt man auf keinen Fall das ganze Rudel auf den Neuen losrennen. Ist der Hund angeleint, sorgt man dafür, dass sich das Rudel dem angeleinten Hund nicht nähert.


Rough Translation:

Keep your dog under control at all times so that he does not endanger other people or animals. Ensure that your dog does not bark, howl or otherwise harass other people.

According to the Swiss Cynological Society (Schweizerische Kynologische Gesellschaft, SKG), correct dog behaviour is basically as follows:

If you meet a dog on a leash or a dog being carried by its owner, you recall your own dog and leash it. The other dog owner will have reasons for his behaviour.

Special caution is always necessary when meeting small dogs: Young, boisterous, and large dogs must especially be kept under control.

If one is out with several dogs and meets a single dog, on no account let the whole pack run towards the new dog. If the dog is on lead, make sure that the pack does not approach the leashed dog.




So that’s the official word for those in, or visiting, canton ZG - where it basically boils down to the simple concept: Respect others.

---

As has been pointed out in many threads, in addition to the federal animal welfare laws (TSchV and others) dog control is the competency of the individual cantons and communities. Dog owners must understand and follow their own canton’s regs, as well as that of any canton/community they visit. A summary of the various cantonal dog laws, with links to the actual legal text, can be found on the Tier Im Recht foundation’s website, here:

https://www.tierimrecht.org/en/legal...onal-Dog-Laws/

Last edited by meloncollie; 01.02.2020 at 00:57. Reason: forgot the 'not'
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  #32  
Old 31.01.2020, 08:46
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

I lived 6 years in Aegeri, two dogs in that time, one old lady and on her passing a young puppy then teen. We walked daily, probably over the same ground as the OP and I do not recognise the problems she is encountering, maybe things have changed a lot in the 2 years since we left?

I would say that, yes, a lot of the dogs are not seen often off leash, some were reactive, but not when you follow the unstated rules. Call your dog back on seeing another, on or off leash, put your dog on leash, and as you approach in a calm and in control manner, ask whether the other dog might be interested in playing.

My old girl, from your perspective, might have seemed aggressive and unsocialised as she became reactive to other dogs she did not know or trust. This is far from the truth, we spent her first 6 years at dog school, both as pupils and then assistant trainers, she was very sociable and played perfectly with big, small, quiet and energetic dogs. The problem in later life was her back and pain, she became unable to “play” without causing herself pain. She therefore used her voice to keep other dogs away, a form of self defence. The local dog owners knew her, knew her problem and respected her space, keeping there dogs at a distance. We did walk, off leash, with a few but they were all in the same boat.

My young puppy played with anyone willing, but we asked first, we got to know the other owners, some new to the area and others from when we had our old girl. Some were happy to allow play, others not, but they had their reasons and we respected it.

OP if you can just get to know some of the others, walk the Schützen circuit with them, keep your boisterous boy on lead a bit, build up some trust with the other owners that you do have a lovely, friendly boy and not a hooligan then you may, just may, find things get better. I hope so, there are some lovely walks in the area.
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  #33  
Old 31.01.2020, 10:09
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

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Here is what the Zug (the OP’s location according to the profile) cantonal website has to say about dogs in the canton (Zuger Hund):

https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/gesundhe...de/zuger-hunde

First the canton points out that as ZG does not have a Hundegesetz, the default is to the federal TSchV. (SR 455.1, articles 68-79, here: https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...796/index.html ) and then to the individual Gemeinden.

The website goes on to say that in canton ZG, unless otherwise signed, it is recommended that dogs be kept on lead in the following places:

In public buildings, including train stations and bus stops.
In restaurant and stores
In residential areas
In the forests and near forest areas
Near places designated as play or sports areas
Near heavily trafficked streets
In conservation areas (Naturschutzgebiete) - dogs must be on lead in areas so designated, and in some conservation areas dogs are forbidden.
At dusk and through the night.

Do not bring your dog in the following places:

In school grounds and playgrounds
In play and sports areas
In cemeteries
In public swimming spots

Furthermore the cantonal website highlights the following:

Halten Sie Ihren Hund jederzeit so unter Kontrolle, dass er weder andere Personen noch Tiere gefährdet. Sorgen Sie dafür, dass Ihr Hund andere Personen weder durch anhaltendes Gebell noch durch Geheul oder auf andere Art und Weise belästigt.

Korrekte Hundebegnungen laufen gemäss der Schweizerischen Kynologischen Gesellschaft SKG grundsätzlich wie folgt ab: Kommt einem ein Hund entgegen, der an der Leine geführt oder von seinem Besitzer auf den Arm genommen wird, ruft man auch den eigenen zu sich und leint ihn an. Der andere Hundebesitzer wird Gründe für sein Verhalten haben. Bei Begegnungen mit Zwerghunden ist immer besondere Vorsicht geboten: Junge, stürmische und grosse Hunde müssen dabei besonders gut unter Kontrolle gehalten werden. Ist man mit mehreren Hunden unterwegs und trifft auf einen einzelnen, lässt man auf keinen Fall das ganze Rudel auf den Neuen losrennen. Ist der Hund angeleint, sorgt man dafür, dass sich das Rudel dem angeleinten Hund nicht nähert.


Rough Translation:

Keep your dog under control at all times so that he does not endanger other people or animals. Ensure that your dog does bark, howl or otherwise harass other people.

According to the Swiss Cynological Society (Schweizerische Kynologische Gesellschaft, SKG), correct dog behaviour is basically as follows:

If you meet a dog on a leash or a dog being carried by its owner, you call your own dog and leash it. The other dog owner will have reasons for his behaviour.

Special caution is always necessary when meeting small dogs: Young, boisterous, and large dogs must be kept under special control.

If one is out with several dogs and meets a single dog, on no account let the whole pack run towards the new dog. If the dog is on a leash, make sure that the pack does not approach the leashed dog.




So that’s the official word for those in, or visiting, canton ZG - where it basically boils down to the simple concept: Respect others.

---

As has been pointed out in many threads, in addition to the federal animal welfare laws (TSchV and others) dog control is the competency of the individual cantons and communities. Dog owners must understand and follow their own canton’s regs, as well as that of any canton/community they visit. A summary of the various cantonal dog laws, with links to the actual legal text, can be found on the Tier Im Recht foundation’s website, here:

https://www.tierimrecht.org/en/legal...onal-Dog-Laws/
So different to Fribourg! Other than a brief period in the spring we are allowed to have dogs off leash in forests, lakes, fields etc as long as the dog is under control (recall-able so it doesn’t bother wildlife or leashed dogs or people) and as long as it isn’t a conservation area. Of course any area can make its own rules and so we have learned for example which beaches allow dogs, which do not and which require a leash.

The basic principle that one should recall and leash a dog when another dog is on leash stands of course. And a dog is never permitted to run up to people or dogs without establishing contact for permission from the others. As you put it: respect others is te main principle.
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  #34  
Old 31.01.2020, 10:28
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

I see many dogs on leash and most of them either ignore mine or simply stare at him as they walk past often on a loose leash. Very little aggressiveness or pulling and barking mostly comes from little dogs likely because he scares them rather than being unsocialised.

In USA dogs that become leash reactive often have e-collars and prongs collars shoved on them and I am truly thankful those barbaric devices are banned in Switzerland. I am also thankful of the many places my dog is welcome, from cafes and 5 star restaurants to hotels to the local school bus when my car broke down!

The waitress at our local cafe is scared of dogs and so we keep Axel as far away as possible and don't let him sniff or nose her. Other dog owners are not that considerate and she is fed up of hearing "he is super friendly and wants to say hello" when the dog pushes up to her. These type of owners make people not used to dogs afraid not because there as so many aggressive dogs in Switzerland.

I have only met one really aggressive dog in 10 years and it was off the leash well in front of the owner. The way it approached snarling it wasn't looking to play. I managed to get Axel to sit quietly and my son stood in front of us as the dog slowly moved forward teeth bared. Luckily the owner appeared

Socialisation means having a well rounded, confident dog who is able to cope in different circumstances. It is all too easy to over socialise a dog and flood them with too many different experiences, in which case you can end up with a fear aggressive dog.

Interacting with other dogs is only a small part of proper socialisation. You are socialising a dog just as much by allowing 2 dogs on a lead to calmly sniff each other as by off leash play. Yes, I love to see my dog happily running around playing with his doggie friends but that is supervised play under circumstances I control rather than with random strangers. Axel walks on a leash.


We have building works just past our house and have to walk within feet of it. Drilling, banging, cement mixers, men carrying planks of wood was very scary for Axel and he reacted by barking and jumping in the air when we went past. I went alone and spoke to the men and explained that he wasn't aggressive but frightened and they were very considerate in helping me get over his fear. We started by letting him sit and watch them from a distance, they have turned off the cement mixer as we walked past and try not to suddenly drop something. They have allowed him to sniff at their vehicles and tools and some have petted him. Now he pretty much ignores it when we pass.

That is socialisation although I am sure if OP had seen his first reaction he would have decided he was an aggressive dog and me an unethical owner. If I hadn't spoken with the builders they would have been scared of him.
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Old 31.01.2020, 10:40
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

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So different to Fribourg!
Just a bit o' pedantry, but it is important that people fully understand dog law.


ZG does not have a dog law. It is, arguably, the most laissez-faire of the cantons.

The dog etiquette detailed on the ZG website isn't 'different from Fribourg' in that in the absence of a ZG cantonal dog law the default is the federal law, the TSchV.

Which applies to all cantons. The federal law is the minimum, cantons are free to impose greater restrictions as the voters (remember ZH and GE BSL came about via a public referendum) and/or officials see fit.

So techically, the federal regs (which are largely focused on animal welfare - all animals - rather than dog control) apply in FR as well.



/pedant mode


---



By the bye, FR is a BSL canton, restricting 14 breeds and any dog crossed with those breeds. Rotties and Dobbies are on that list, by the way. Owners of the restricted breeds or crosses must apply for a special permit, renewable every two years.

---

Remember that there are laws, and etiquette norms.

I'll say it again - we all need to understand the federal, cantonal, and local laws and regulations. And follow local etiquette norms. It's how we all get along as we share these crowded public spaces.
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Old 31.01.2020, 10:46
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

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By the bye, FR is a BSL canton, restricting 14 breeds and any dog crossed with those breeds. Rotties and Dobbies are on that list, by the way. Owners of the restricted breeds or crosses must apply for a special permit, renewable every two years.


Interesting to know. Are GSD on that list so I know where to avoid when we move and does the permit give any restrictions such as wearing a muzzle in public

Last edited by roegner; 31.01.2020 at 11:26. Reason: Fixed quote
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Old 31.01.2020, 10:57
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

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Are GSD on that list so I know where to avoid when we move and does the permit give any restrictions such as wearing a muzzle in public
No, GSDs are welcome in FR.

Each of the cantons that have implemented BSL have their own lists of banned or restricted breeds/crosses.

The only canton where GSDs are restricted is TI - a permit is needed to keep a GSD (and 29 other breeds and their crosses).

If a dog owner is considering a move to another canton, it is a good idea to double check that canton's dog law. And remember that dog law is something of a moving target - as public attitudes change, so can the law*. Cantonal dog law is usually published on the cantonal website, or one should contact the cantonal Veterinäramt with questions. Also refer to the Tier Im Recht summaries linked upthread.



* Change is not always towards the more restrictive. For years I would not consider moving to GL, a place that otherwise is very attractive to me, due to their restrictions on multi dog households. That law has been done away with, a milder version is now in effect. So if my dream property ever hits the market...
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Old 31.01.2020, 11:38
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

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Interesting to know. Are GSD on that list so I know where to avoid when we move and does the permit give any restrictions such as wearing a muzzle in public
No and no. BSL breeds don’t have to be kept muzzled in FR and GSD isn’t on the list. I don’t find the laws to be that restrictive in FR. I know a lot of people with Staffies and we considered adding a Dobermann or a Rottweiler to our family but decided against for different reasons (finances for the moment, and we can’t agree on which breed). Sure you spend a little more money and you have to get the license etc. but it is very doable.

https://www.fr.ch/saav/vie-quotidien...a-autorisation

Edit to add: I should say don’t USUALLY have to wear a muzzle. The evaluator can require the dog to wear a muzzle if he feels it’s necessary. That being said I’ve never seen a muzzled dog in FR.
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Old 31.01.2020, 12:39
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

@Mr Dog, I'd like to say that in your posts about your relationship with your dog, it impresses me that you repeatedly show that you can distinguish between your own needs and those of the dog, and that that ability and willingness steers your choices for the dog. Of course, that ought to be the norm, but we see that it is often not done.

For example, for yourself (had you no dog), you might have found the noise and disruption from the building-site annoying, but would otherwise have looked out the window, sighed, and according to their progress estimated how long you'd have to put up with the inconvenience, and that'd probably be that. And possibly simply with discipline and control commands, you could have gotten your dog past there. However - for your dog's sake, short term and with regard to the dog's longer term development - you took the trouble to have those conversations with the builders.

Similarly, you yourself would love to enjoy watching your dog bouncing around happily with the others, but you take the trouble to ensure that the dog can sometimes have this experience, but only under controlled and safe circumstances, bearing in mind the dog's vulnerabilities due to injuries and physiotherapy.

I commend you for mastering this distinction, and acting according to is: what is about you, and what is about the dog.
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Old 31.01.2020, 14:00
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Re: Dog Socialization a Real Problem in (Central?) Switzerland

@Doropfiz Thank you so much for your kind words, it is much appreciated. It has been a difficult year with him health wise but luckily we have a fantastic support network in the form of the vets, physio etc. He is a part of the family and we all love him dearly
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