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Old 31.03.2020, 13:45
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

I've already contacted the mods and the OP, but it is perhaps time to remind people that EF policy is that dog rehoming ads (as well as dog sales) are not allowed.

This is because Swiss animal welfare law requirements are in conflict with forum policy.

Under Swiss animal welfare regs anyone placing an ad for a dog, rehoming or sale, must publish his or her full name and address, as well as the country of origin of the dog. The onus on compliance falls to the platform accepting the ad - thus making EF responsible.

Because we are not supposed to use real names and not supposed to publish contact details, when the new regulations came out it was decided that EF would no longer allow dog rehoming or sale posts.
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Old 31.03.2020, 13:54
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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I've already contacted the mods and the OP, but it is perhaps time to remind people that EF policy is that dog rehoming ads (as well as dog sales) are not allowed.

This is because Swiss animal welfare law requirements are in conflict with forum policy.

Under Swiss animal welfare regs anyone placing an ad for a dog, rehoming or sale, must publish his or her full name and address, as well as the country of origin of the dog. The onus on compliance falls to the platform accepting the ad - thus making EF responsible.

Because we are not supposed to use real names and not supposed to publish contact details, when the new regulations came out it was decided that EF would no longer allow dog rehoming or sale posts.
The way I see it, is that the owner will certainly have to exchange data with the prospective buyer. If this platform can speed up the rehoming of a pet, then so be it. I'd rather have a happier pet, than discussing semantics. This is just my take and other moderators' opinions may differ.
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Old 31.03.2020, 13:57
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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The way I see it, is that the owner will certainly have to exchange data with the prospective buyer. If this platform can speed up the rehoming of a pet, then so be it. I'd rather have a happier pet, than discussing semantics. This is just my take and other moderators' opinions may differ.
I just applied the previously decided rule, so removed the ad but left Meloncollie's post here as a reminder. Didn't seem to me that it's really open for discussion.
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:03
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

I agree with LI

Better a happy pet than an abandoned one...
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:05
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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I just applied the previously decided rule, so removed the ad but left Meloncollie's post here as a reminder. Didn't seem to me that it's really open for discussion.
Why not allow the poster to post something, like:

"We have to leave CH due to Coronavirus and we cannot take our dog/cat/hamster...


Please contact me if you can help..."
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:09
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

I understand your point...but I find this law to be very surprising.

On my local Facebook expat page, a member posted an ad saying that someone had to adopt their dog by the weekend, otherwise they would just "leave it on the street because they were moving out of the country". I immediately called my local shelter (Basel) to see if they could interfere, only to be told "at least they were trying to find a home for the dog."

After trying to reach the OP and get more information, they deleted their post because of pressure from myself and others to do the right thing... I still wonder about what happened to that poor dog.
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:10
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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Why not allow the poster to post something, like:

"We have to leave CH due to Coronavirus and we cannot take our dog/cat/hamster...


Please contact me if you can help..."
Did you not read MC's post or the sticky?

You may not like it, but the law is the law, and we're not generally in the business of deciding which bits of it to ignore just because we feel sorry for someone.
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:19
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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Why not allow the poster to post something, like:

"We have to leave CH due to Coronavirus and we cannot take our dog/cat/hamster...


Please contact me if you can help..."
FYI, the regulations only apply to dogs, not to cats or other pets (unless those are regulated by other legislation, such as exotics.)

SR 455.1, art 76a, Anbieten von Hunde
Wer Hunde öffentlich anbietet, muss folgende Informationen schriftlich angeben:

a.
Vorname, Name und Adresse der Anbieterin oder des Anbieters;
b.
Herkunftsland des Hundes;
c.
Zuchtland.
2 Die Betreiberinnen und Betreiber der Internetplattformen und die Verlegerinnen und Verleger der Zeitschriften sorgen für die Vollständigkeit der Angaben.



My bold on the last bit. While many of us are indeed dog lovers and several actively involved in Tierschutz and rehoming, no one wants EF to fall afoul of animal welfare laws.

---

To my mind, even the above quoted suggestion would be better left more general, such as "Can anyone advise me as to the best way to rehome a dog? I understand the TSchV requirements and EF policy, so if you can advise me, please contact me by PM."
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:20
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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Did you not read MC's post or the sticky?

You may not like it, but the law is the law, and we're not generally in the business of deciding which bits of it to ignore just because we feel sorry for someone.
Yes I read it, thanks.

It's not just someone, it's an animal's future.

I think the EF policy could be less anal as after all we are "a community"...
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:22
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

Nothing to do with being anal as you say it but rather adhering to the law?
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:32
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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Nothing to do with being anal as you say it but rather adhering to the law?

Yes anal. I think there are ways around the wording.
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:37
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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I understand your point...but I find this law to be very surprising.
The law was put into place as a measure to combat the very real problem of animal trafficking in Switzerland.

The 'Hundemafia' has moved from fake breeders to fake rehoming or rescue, it is often difficult to spot the bad actors. Switzerland is trying to stop the misery the poor animals suffer at the hands of these barstewards.

Hence the requirement of publishing full name and address as well as the country of origin of the dog. That information, theoretically, should give a prospective buyer or adopter the means to check on the bonafides of the owner/seller/breeder/rescue.

Dogs must be traceable from birth/import to death/export here, hence AMICUS.

As explained in my previous post, forum policy on real names and contact details is in conflict with the law.

---

Yes, it does place an additional burden on a few genuine rehoming cases. But if you trawl through old posts from years ago you will see several obvious bad actors trying it on here, making me believe that EF is not the best place for such posts anyway. This is a forum of folks who might not know Swiss law, and might not be aware of 'the Swiss way', or rehoming resources available ... and are thus vulnerable to these bad actors.

The best thing any concerned dog lover can do is to help others understand Swiss law, and guide the poster to those better resources. Such as the Tierheim who have a good reputation working with difficult dogs.
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:39
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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Yes anal. I think there are ways around the wording.
So you think we _should_ be in the business of interpreting the letter of the law and trying to bend it as we see fit?

No, as Melloncollie says, the community may offer help and support as to legal means of homing a dog, but the wording of the law is quite clear, however much you or I may not think it's a good law.

As quoted above, but goggle translated for clarity.
Quote:
SR 455.1, art 76a, offering dogs
Anyone who offers dogs publicly must provide the following information in writing:

a.
First name, surname and address of the provider;
b.
Country of origin of the dog;
c.
Breeding country.
2 The operators of the internet platforms and the publishers of the magazines ensure that the information is complete.
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:39
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

But Dear Mod

ok_in_form_not_in_spirit at mydomain dot com is not an email address, after all you cannot send any email using these. You have to leave it in my post about spanish lottery.

I insist.
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Old 31.03.2020, 14:48
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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The law was put into place as a measure to combat the very real problem of animal trafficking in Switzerland.
Thanks for bringing awareness to this...I think that is exactly what the Facebook post was about. Who would move countries last minute and then proceed to dump a pedigree husky on the road? Ughh...why do people have to be so awful sometimes?
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Old 31.03.2020, 15:21
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

Surely, much of the original post can remain, but phrased more as seeking advice rather than a re-homing. OP could include a sentence such as "We are in a difficult situation, want to do what is best for our dog but are beginning to reach the sad conclusion that he might be better off with a more experienced owner. We are open to any and all suggestions and please feel free to send a PM."


That is a responsible owner weighing up all options which may or may not be rehoming
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Old 31.03.2020, 15:27
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

Yes, I like that solution- but only if it was from a member who is known here for some time, not a newcomer.
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Old 31.03.2020, 15:29
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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Yes, I like that solution- but only if it was from a member who is known here for some time, not a newcomer.
A long term poster may not want to become known in the forum as "the one who abandoned their dog", but in principle I agree.
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Old 31.03.2020, 15:29
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

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Yes, I like that solution- but only if it was from a member who is known here for some time, not a newcomer.

Newbie, first post.


And nothing with "I am dumping the dog because I am leaving the country", but rather the fact that they can´t cope with the poor dog.
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Old 31.03.2020, 15:31
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Re: Looking for a new home for our dog

I do agree that the law is the law. I also appreciate that at the moment some people are suddenly finding themselves in situations where they are desperate. Abandoning your pet is not necessary in Switzerland where one can place an animal at a shelter (for a fee, of course).

On a slightly different note, I saw an ad yesterday placed by an elderly woman living in a village near me. She lives alone and she is asking who can look after her dogs if she needs to go to hospital. I didn't have the impression she is ill, just thinking "what if." No one wants to think like this but as pet owners we are responsible for our pets. Having a plan doesn't mean you will need to act on it.

Back on topic, I would like to point out that often items for sale on EF, such as cars, or properties advertised for rent, include a link to an ad elsewhere where one can find the EF poster's real name and contact details as they appear in the ad. So, if one wants to enforce complete anonymity, then these links should not be permitted.

There are EF members who have businesses and are known by their real names and their contact details are available.

So if an EF user affiliated with a shelter were to advertise a dog for rehoming with all the legally required details, would this be permitted?
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