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Old 06.05.2021, 16:49
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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The normal outcome should have been your neighbor complaining about damage, not soaking the cat. In the end, it seems you're liable to prevent the cat entering other people's property if they complain.
You're only liable if it gets to court and the judge decides the damage/nuisance is excessive. Essentially, cats are treated (somewhat) under law as wild animals, dogs are not, so different rules apply. This is quite common in many countries - in the UK if a dog causes trouble on your land, you're allowed to shoot it. But you're not allowed to harm a cat.

We got fed up of cats crapping on our lawn, so we got our own. Before then I'd quite happily hose a cat that was squatting or actively causing a problem - but not a kitten.

Orange peel shreaded and strewn on the lawn and flower beds is effective against cats.
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  #22  
Old 06.05.2021, 16:52
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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I would definitely report this to the police, any kind of cruelty is not fine.

If someone did this to my pet, their vehicle would be up in flames or worse.
This is why I don't let ours out ... too many horrible people around.

Better for their nut sacks, my sanity and my cats to stay in their indoor and rooftop terrace wonderland.

So sorry OP! Hope you can sort it out.
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  #23  
Old 06.05.2021, 17:03
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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I would just have pissed on it to mark my territory, no need for a hose!

Tom
Should i use the duck tape and hose pipe on you instead?
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  #24  
Old 06.05.2021, 17:37
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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I am sorry that your cats have been hurt, and I am sorry to hear of trouble with the neighbor.

There is a delicate balance between rights, welfare, and the practicalities of maintaining neighborhood harmony. Having BTDT (although I have dogs, not cats) I would advise knowing the laws - and then thinking about the most effective way to protect your cat within the intersection of those laws and the reality of keeping good neighborly relationships. Because in the end, conflict tends to put our pets at greater risk.

So the legal situation:

A good resource for information on the subject of animal welfare and Swiss law is the Tier Im Recht foundation. This group are experts in the various aspects of how Swiss law touches animals. Here is what they have to say about free roaming cats and Nachbarrecht:

https://www.tierimrecht.org/de/recht...duldet-werden/

'Must strange cats be tolerated on one's own property?'

Since you mention French, I'll assume you don't read German (apologies if I am wrong). so here is the DeepL translation:

"Unlike dogs, however, their (my note: cat) owners cannot constantly control them or train them to know what they are allowed to do and what they are not allowed to do on their forays into other people's property. Here again, the question is what interference is reasonable for a neighbour and at what point it is considered excessive.

Excessiveness must be determined by the courts in each individual case. In most cases, however, it is not necessary to take legal action.

It is quite possible that it is possible to drive the cat away from one's own property with simple measures.
 However, the means used must always be in conformity with animal welfare standards. For example, strongly scented plants such as lavender or coffee grounds can be used. It may also be enough to spray the cat with water to make it leave. On the other hand, it would of course be punishable to use poison bait, throw stones at the animal or shoot it with a gun.

Extreme caution is advised when dealing with so-called cat scare devices. Even if they are readily available in the shops, most devices are not as animal-friendly as advertised. If such devices cause pain, suffering or other damage to an animal, this is punishable under the Animal Protection Act (TSchG). In addition, the defence measures must not endanger other animals such as hedgehogs or birds.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
"

My underline.

To my non-lawyerly ear, what you have written sounds definitely wrong - but whether it was illegal might be borderline. Squirting an unwanted cat visitor in order to send it away from one's property is allowed... but one may not do actual harm to the cat.

The question is, did the neighbot commit animal abuse in the legal sense? Again from TIR:

https://www.tierimrecht.org/de/recht...-tierqualerei/

Cruelty to animals is regulated in Art. 26 of the Animal Protection Act (TSchG). While the term cruelty to animals is often used colloquially for all pain and suffering inflicted on an animal by humans, the law defines cruelty to animals much more narrowly and restricts it to a few, precisely circumscribed offences.

In the legal sense, cruelty to animals is only committed by anyone who intentionally or negligently: mistreats, neglects, unnecessarily overexerts or otherwise disregards the dignity of an animal. Furthermore, anyone who kills an animal in agony or out of wantonness, organises fights between animals in which animals are tortured or killed, inflicts avoidable pain, suffering, damage or fear on an animal in the course of animal experiments or abandons or leaves an animal behind in order to get rid of it commits cruelty to animals.


My underline.

Keeping in mind that again IANAL, my guess is that it could be difficult to prove that what the neighbor did constituted animal abuse in the Swiss legal definition.

The guy is a jerk, IMO. But you might have trouble going further than that.

---

From my own experience of a neighbor intent on hurting my dogs, excessiveness can be subject to local interpretation - and anything but obvious outright abuse hard to prove.

As ACE mentions, ask the police for advice. Or if you are not comfortable doing so at this stage, perhaps first talk to your vet. A local vet is well placed to judge what l typical local attitudes towards animal abuse are, and to recommend next steps.

Another resource is your cantonal Veterinäramt. You could write them, explain what has happened, and ask if in their view the neighbor has crossed the line.

And a fourth possibility - write the folks at TIR. They do not advise of individual cases, but can point you to the relevant laws in your case. That could help you focus your next steps.

Another article from TIR - tossing this out as an FYI since posters on this thread have brought up damage caused by cats:

"Who must pay for damage done by a cat to another person's property?"

https://www.tierimrecht.org/de/recht...ck-hinterlsst/

Again, the Deepl Translation:

Unlike a dog owner, a cat owner cannot be expected to constantly supervise his animals. For this reason, they are not necessarily liable for damage caused by a cat on someone else's property. However, he is liable at least if he has already been ordered by a court to keep his cat from entering other people's property and homes and has still not taken the necessary precautions.


My underline.
---

Yes, in Swiss law cats are allowed to roam. And yes, for the most part absent a court order to restrain the cat, neighbors have to tolerate their incursions onto their property.

----
Now let's talk about some practicalities:

The sad reality here is that some people hate cats and dogs, and in their self-righteous wrath do things that will hurt our animals. Which, unequivocally, is wrong, wrong, wrong.

HOWEVER: My experience is that being in the legal right is cold comfort when my pet is in the ICU having been hurt by an irate neighbor. For my pet's sake, far better not to get to that point in the first place.

We pet owners need to think about what we can do to take whatever steps we can to keep our pets safe - which includes trying to pro-actively keep neighborhood peace.

At this point, I would:

Let the neighbor know that you know what Swiss law says about tolerating a roaming cat. Be polite, but be firm. Often just making others aware that you know what the law actually is can be enough to stop a conflict.

Then try to meet halfway. Are there things you can do to keep your cat away from the neighbor's property? (I'm not a cat owner, so cannot advise on practical steps. Hopefully the EF cat people can.)

And, can you reach agreement with the neighbor on what he should, and should not, do to shoo your cat away from his property humanely?

Try to have this discussion politely, without emotion. Look for common ground.

---

If there is anything I have learned in all my years here, it is that in order to protect my pets I often have to be the first to look for compromise, even when I am fully in the right with the law behind me. Because in the end, it is my dogs who will end up the victims of a neighborhood dispute. My primary job is to protect them.

---

I hope this can be resolved peacefully, and most importantly I hope thaty your kitties stay safe and happy.

All the best.
Thank you again for this.. very helpful. You are right, we need to deal with this calmly in order to protect our kittens
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  #25  
Old 06.05.2021, 17:44
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

Perhaps a little off topic however perhaps that could help both - so my neighbour in his late 70s loves his grass and spends most of the time around his hause making sure it grows . Since cats are all going there to fertalize it it may seem or else - he has installed that ultrasound device - which makes high-pitch that supose to scary cats.

Now in 70s+ he doesn't hear it.
Cat is in "his 70s"- doesn't seem to hear it either
While we do hear it all - entire family

Advise I gave was for him to install a watering device for his grass with infrared sensor all around and small breaker to stun it at home . Weeks later - grass has it's love and cats avoid the place most likely know now as "Dead Marshes"for every cat in the region.

What do I got from it ? a pice of mind for cat and silence for my ears
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  #26  
Old 06.05.2021, 18:11
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

Those cats certainly haven’t learned to stay away from the neighbor, despite all the obstacles. I can imagine your neighbor is becoming frustrated, and consequently, you as well.

You need to find a way to keep those cats out of garden. No one likes to find strange cat feces in their soil.
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  #27  
Old 06.05.2021, 18:17
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

with water splash every time they come by - it's not considered "fit for purpose" land by the cats it seems so all are happy .

I do not know about water bill - but hey - grass is just great!
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  #28  
Old 06.05.2021, 18:36
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

SamanthaH, I strongly urge you to lodge an official complaint with your local police against your neighbour as soon as possible; his mistreatment of your animals (or any animal for that matter), is just NOT acceptable! Take copies of your vet's letters/reports to justify your complaint.

It just so happens that I will be passing close to Orbe on Sunday. Perhaps I should visit your neighbour and have a "quiet" word with him. My dogs will be with me too!
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  #29  
Old 06.05.2021, 18:41
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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You need to find a way to keep those cats out of garden.
Legally, you don't.

I regularly have to get badger and fox crap off the lawn. Cat crap is fragrant in comparison.
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Old 06.05.2021, 18:44
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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Should i use the duck tape and hose pipe on you instead?
I didn't mean to duct tape the cat, rather just leave pieces (sticky side up), especially in one's vegetable garden.

Tom
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Old 06.05.2021, 18:45
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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Legally, you don't.

I regularly have to get badger and fox crap off the lawn. Cat crap is fragrant in comparison.
At our rustico, I always piss around the perimeter to mark my territory!

Tom (cat)
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  #32  
Old 06.05.2021, 18:48
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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Should i use the duck tape and hose pipe on you instead?
I normally use them on my car.

Or for kinky stuff.

Tom
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  #33  
Old 06.05.2021, 19:07
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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I normally use them on my car.

Or for kinky stuff.
just want to make sure , it's not a cat you actually referring to , right? Or I'd be better off not knowing ...
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  #34  
Old 06.05.2021, 19:11
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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with water splash every time they come by - it's not considered "fit for purpose" land by the cats it seems so all are happy .
I do not know about water bill - but hey - grass is just great!
Glad you’re happy and that the grass is greener now on the other side of the fence. I’m sure you and all the cat owners chipped in for your neighbour’s additional equipment
Just a thought, as the cats now seemingly avoid the "Dead Marshes", the spray frequency will diminish and the marches turn into a dried grass waste land….
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Old 06.05.2021, 19:12
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

Pity your neighbour didn't get a burst pipe as it appears he didn't turn off his outside water taps in winter.
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Old 06.05.2021, 19:22
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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SamanthaH, I strongly urge you to lodge an official complaint with your local police against your neighbour as soon as possible; his mistreatment of your animals (or any animal for that matter), is just NOT acceptable! Take copies of your vet's letters/reports to justify your complaint.

It just so happens that I will be passing close to Orbe on Sunday. Perhaps I should visit your neighbour and have a "quiet" word with him. My dogs will be with me too!
First an arsonist and now the hood with intimidating dogs chimes in! OP, I hope your fight with a probably nutty neighbour doesn’t attract more crazies in your defence
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  #37  
Old 06.05.2021, 19:46
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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Glad you’re happy and that the grass is greener now on the other side of the fence. I’m sure you and all the cat owners chipped in for your neighbour’s additional equipment
Just a thought, as the cats now seemingly avoid the "Dead Marshes", the spray frequency will diminish and the marches turn into a dried grass waste land….
He now walks rounds his house and does the job as well.

ultrasound machine was never out in winter so why would I care for his grass than - it was all about that noisy and yet silent to some machine.

I should add - my wife starts complaining about cats on our land/grass ...just connected the dots
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  #38  
Old 06.05.2021, 20:59
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

I don't want to scare you, but try to settle this as amicably as possible. People who dislike cats enough to harm them can do irrational and cruel things. If they have a real problem with you, they will more than likely take it out on your cat.

Last edited by Kittster; 06.05.2021 at 21:38.
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  #39  
Old 06.05.2021, 21:37
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

I encourage anybody with a cat or other animal issue to get the auto sprayer.

You can see from my post last year that it does work pretty well ..

It's humane and effective .. In fact even when the hose isn't connected the cats see the device and go away .. It doesn't trigger for hedgehogs which is good.. And even better is that it sometimes catches out the wife or kids.
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Old 06.05.2021, 21:49
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Re: My neighbour soaked my cat

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As for rights, I'm fairly sure that like in other countries there is no requirement or expectation for a cat owner to control their animals as would be the case with a dog.
I very much doubt that. Most countries have laws in place which ensure people are entitled to enjoy their property free of your interference in any way. So I very much doubt that a defense based on the idea that you are not responsible for a cat you bought and maintain is going to get very far if it is interfering with the neighbors enjoyment of their property.
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