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  #21  
Old 17.05.2021, 22:45
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

Not to get too besides the point but ...

Except many Swiss dogs aren’t vaccinated because there hasn’t been a case here since the ‘90s or something. The only real reason to vaccinate a dog for rabies in Switzerland is if you’re exporting it to another country or traveling to another country with it.

In many countries one must vaccinate due to the disease being active, hence why Switzerland demands that all dogs coming into Switzerland from abroad, be that a resident dog of Switzerland or an import, be vaccinated so as to not risk bringing rabies into the country.

As if the bats and such respect country borders, but it seems to be working so far for Switzerland *shrugs* the likelihood all the same of a young puppy carrying rabies is ... quite low, but the European countries do the same to Switzerland. An acquaintance just sold a puppy to Italy and had to get the pup rabies vaccinated and titered three weeks later to prove immunity. Pup won’t be reaching the new family until almost four months of age due to the (quite honestly unnecessarily) complicated import rules Italy enforces on Swiss dogs and the (legitimate) reluctance of the vet, the breeder and the new owner to vaccinate for rabies too young.
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  #22  
Old 18.05.2021, 08:03
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

No, we don’t have rabies in Switzerland because we have checks like this. Rabies is a terrible disease in animals and even worse in humans.

As melloncollie explained the problem comes from the women not checking the rules first.

And bats are checked at the frontier but most have their frequent flyer cards in their pockets as they know the rules. They just get waived through!
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  #23  
Old 18.05.2021, 16:21
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

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And bats are checked at the frontier but most have their frequent flyer cards in their pockets as they know the rules. They just get waived through!
Seems you forgot the anti-bite training the bats must have completed to get their frequent flyer card. Switzerland being Switzerland, it's icredibly effective hence the complete lack of bat bites among humans.

Now, human-to-human bites and training against them is still work in progress.
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  #24  
Old 18.05.2021, 19:15
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

While we don’t have bats in our belfry, we do have bats in our neighbourhood. You often see them swooping through through the airborne insects around dusk. But I’ve never heard of one biting a human.

Are they rabid? Probably not.
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  #25  
Old 18.05.2021, 19:56
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

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While we don’t have bats in our belfry, we do have bats in our neighbourhood. You often see them swooping through through the airborne insects around dusk. But I’ve never heard of one biting a human.

Are they rabid? Probably not.
We were only having fun Yes, blood eating bats only exist in America (the continent).
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  #26  
Old 18.05.2021, 21:06
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

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We were only having fun Yes, blood eating bats only exist in America (the continent).
Any bat can bite a human, not just the blood sucking kinds. Usually when they end up in people’s houses by accident and get scared.
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  #27  
Old 24.07.2021, 12:54
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

How the hell would one even come to know about such a law? Laws that are this obtuse should not come with a 8k penalty. Speeding obvious, murder obvious, importing dog from germany without proper paperwork 8k fine.

What a joke.
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  #28  
Old 24.07.2021, 13:00
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

TIS, Importing ANYTHING has rules and regulations.
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  #29  
Old 24.07.2021, 13:05
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

obscure the law is; obtuse it is not.
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  #30  
Old 24.07.2021, 13:07
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

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How the hell would one even come to know about such a law? Laws that are this obtuse should not come with a 8k penalty. Speeding obvious, murder obvious, importing dog from germany without proper paperwork 8k fine.

What a joke.
The only joke is not fully doing your research before importing live animals into a country. There are websites clearly summarise what you need to do when importing animals. Hell, there's even a "guided online tool" that gives you specific advice for your situation https://www.blv.admin.ch/blv/en/home...frettchen.html

There are no excuses for not putting in the proper effort to fully inform yourself when doing something as important as this.
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  #31  
Old 24.07.2021, 13:49
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

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How the hell would one even come to know about such a law? Laws that are this obtuse should not come with a 8k penalty. Speeding obvious, murder obvious, importing dog from germany without proper paperwork 8k fine.

What a joke.
The law is neither obscure nor obtuse, and the situation certainly is not a joke.

In the case discussed, it is not a paperwork error that caused the problem, rather neglecting to have the most important part of importation done correctly, the rabies shot. The need to keep Switzeland rabies free is why the penalties are so draconian. The poor puppy faces euthanasia in the worst case.

Every country in the world has regulations around importing animals, Switzerland is no different.

The BLV has gone to great lengths to provide the information necessary to easily and correctly import a dog (or cat, or ferret) on it's website, including an interactive tool CHuff linked above that walks you through exactly what is needed in each case. It is crystal clear what one must do.

It is somewhat incomprehensible to me that a person would not think about importation regs when buying a dog from outside Switzerland - afterall, as Bowie says, there are import regulations for just about anything bought outside of Switzerland.

Heck, if I simply type 'Welpe importierien Schweiz' the BLV site is the first hit.

I know, I know - there are far too many people who do not have the common sense to do even that basic research. THIS IS WHY WE NEED SOME LEVEL OF MANDATORY DOG OWNERSHIP COURSE.

Every reputable breeder I know and reputable rescue I work with asks a potential buyer/adopter if he understands what it take to get a dog across the border, well before deciding whether to allow that person to buy/adopt the dog. If you get your pet from a reputable source, that is another check.

I know, I know - there are far too many people who do not have the common sense to do even basic due diligence to ensure that they are buying/adopting from a reputable source. THIS IS WHY WE NEED SOME LEVEL OF MANDATORY DOG OWNERSHIP COURSE.

---

Dog ownership is a responsibility. It requires informing oneself about a whole host of new things over the lifetime of your dog. But the information is out there, easily accessible, easily understandable. Sometimes it just takes pointing someone in the right direction WHICH I WHY WE NEED SOME LEVEL OF MANDATORY DOG OWNERSHIP COURSE.
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  #32  
Old 24.07.2021, 13:53
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

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How the hell would one even come to know about such a law? Laws that are this obtuse should not come with a 8k penalty. Speeding obvious, murder obvious, importing dog from germany without proper paperwork 8k fine.

What a joke.
How the hell would anybody even imagine that importing a live animal to any country could raise the slightest issue? Red tape, I tell you!
Every tried sneaking your favourite questionable Chinese snack into Australia for example? They tend to give you bonus points if it still moves when poked


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TIS, Importing ANYTHING has rules and regulations.
As opposed to all other free-thinking, liberal, open-border, multicultural entities which welcome scoff laws with open arms. The UK, for instance, does still seem to apply a bit of regulation https://www.gov.uk/bring-pet-to-great-britain
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  #33  
Old 24.07.2021, 14:45
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

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How the hell would one even come to know about such a law? Laws that are this obtuse should not come with a 8k penalty. Speeding obvious, murder obvious, importing dog from germany without proper paperwork 8k fine.

What a joke.
You are going the HATE it here. Or you probably already do. There is a principle in Swiss law that I would translate as "the law doesn't give a toss if you chose to remain ignorant, it still applies".

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TIS, doing ANYTHING has rules and regulations.
FTFY
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  #34  
Old 24.07.2021, 15:49
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

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FTFY
Breathing?
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  #35  
Old 24.07.2021, 16:29
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

It must be ten years now since I brought our parrot and our cat to Switzerland from the UK. There was lots of paperwork, the most significant being the CITES permit for the parrot, but he (our vet has checked, it's a he) needed three different permits and inevitably one of them would expire before we could get all three (not the CITES one, it was good for a couple of years I think). We brought them back to the UK in less than a year, and they've been in the UK ever since. On the return trip it was Eurostar that checked the paperwork. The parrot was hatched in Wales and was banded, which made proof of origin much easier. He (an African Grey) speaks only French (which we speak to him in), but disappointingly little of that.

I know there are animal passports, and that Brexit has made transporting animals a terrible mess https://www.frenchentree.com/living-...fter-brexit-2/

Puppy smuggling and fraud have been in the UK papers constantly since the COVID-19 lockdown raised prices. A pedigreed dog or cat should never be bought without a British Kennel Club or Governing Council of the Cat Fancy certificate of parentage, or the equivalent from other countries. As the press has reported, stolen and smuggled animals are kept in crowded conditions and are often deathly ill when sold. The latest gambit is for the illegal seller to set up a fake family and the giveaway is that the purported mother of the baby animal will be indifferent to it. A legitimate breeder would inform any buyer about veterinary formalities, and indeed would not sell a puppy too young to have been vaccinated according to the schedule https://www.petsmart.com/learning-ce...why/A0067.html Many, perhaps most, legitimate breeders require two visits by any prospective buyer. (That didn't save us from the heartbreak of buying a mentally defective Hungarian Puli puppy in Connecticut 60 years ago; we haven't had a dog since.)

Patti Page was cute when she sang How Much Is That Doggie in the Window, but a storefront shop is no place to buy a dog. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/(How_M..._the_Window%3F

There are special, far more liberal, rules for import of working service animals. I have seen a service (miniature) pony but have no idea what Switzerland would think of that.

The U.S. Department of State publishes Post Reports for every country in which it has diplomatic representation for the use of employees anticipating a posting. These include advice about animal importation formalities. Some info here: https://fam.state.gov/fam/02fam/02fam0170.html

Last edited by Caryl; 24.07.2021 at 16:58.
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  #36  
Old 27.07.2021, 13:32
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

Re-reading the thread there is another lesson here -- one that came to my mind when I saw the thread about customs fines levied against EU residents who drive a Swiss car into the EU.

When you are doing something new in relation to export/import, the best advice is to leave the car on the territory of the country you are exiting and walk into the other country and enquire about importation rules.

In my past life the answer was often to hire a customs broker to post a bond and sort things out. That is an obvious thing about an unlicensed car: I recall in 1965 driving around in a new VW with a Carnet de passage en douane -- already abolished in Europe but needed when I drove to Lebanon. Carnets are also used for workers' tools and other valuable equipment temporarily imported for a job or in transit.

Won't help as far as the dog is concerned, except that Swiss Customs would have advised the traveler not to enter with the dog at all until vaccinations and papers were in order.
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  #37  
Old 29.07.2021, 20:24
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

It's happened again.

From the 20 Minutes:
https://www.20min.ch/story/welpe-fre...n-721016912998

Fredy, a toy pinscher puppy, will be killed on Saturday. Once again someone either didn't bother to learn importation rules, or thought that somehow the rules could be got around.

Once again a poor innocent puppy dies due to idiocy and irresponsibility.

A woman, who lives in Greece, bought a puppy in Moldovia, a country at risk for rabies, and brough it to Switzerland. The puppy was supposed to be a present for her aunt in Switzerland, to help her get over the recent loss of another pet.

(Whisky Tango Foxtrot? A live animal should never, ever be bought as a present for a third party. No responsible breeder will allow that. Big ol' red flag practically screaming 'Dark Side'.)

It was of course discovered that the puppy was imported without rabies vaccination, that is illegally.

(Whicky Tango Foxtrot? What in the name of doG is so hard about taking two minutes to read up on import regs, then spend a few Chuffs to vaccinate?)

The GE Veterinäramt gave the woman the option of returning to her country with the puppy - which the lady did not do.

(Whisky Tango Foxtrot? Why in the name of doG didn't the lady leave in order to save the life of the dog?)

The lady's lawyer proposed instead to vaccinate the puppy and put it in quarantine, but the GE Veterinäramt would not allow that - and the court has agreed.

So unless there is a miracle poor Fredy puppy will be killed on Saturday.

---

I'm starting to think that even bringing back mandatory owner training is not enough. The root of the problem seems to be that some people simply do not believe that laws apply to them. I honestly don't know how that can be fixed.

Poor, poor puppy.



Off to find a brick wall against which to bang my head...
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  #38  
Old 30.07.2021, 07:47
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

You would think that people would just read up on the internet to get some basic info… but a lot of people don’t.

My mother in law knows all about my dog importing story and spoke to one of her neighbors about it because they imported an adult dog from Hungary a few years ago. It turns out that they knew nothing about the importation process and simply drove across the border. In fact I know that they have been to Germany to shop and to Italy for holidays a few times with the dog. I don’t know about the Vet visits though (or if they’ve been to the vet at all) but we all know that not all vets are 100% by the book. Now that my MIL told them my story, they are frightened about the authorities finding out…

There must be a lot of dogs in Switzerland like this…
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  #39  
Old 30.07.2021, 07:58
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

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You would think that people would just read up on the internet to get some basic info… but a lot of people don’t.

My mother in law knows all about my dog importing story and spoke to one of her neighbors about it because they imported an adult dog from Hungary a few years ago. It turns out that they knew nothing about the importation process and simply drove across the border. In fact I know that they have been to Germany to shop and to Italy for holidays a few times with the dog. I don’t know about the Vet visits though (or if they’ve been to the vet at all) but we all know that not all vets are 100% by the book. Now that my MIL told them my story, they are frightened about the authorities finding out…

There must be a lot of dogs in Switzerland like this…

In times when I was a kid you buy a dog or cat and no one cares. It just an animal. Now there are gazillion of stupid rules.
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  #40  
Old 30.07.2021, 08:23
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Re: Illegally imported dog seized.

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In times when I was a kid you buy a dog or cat and no one cares. It just an animal. Now there are gazillion of stupid rules.
You don't seem blessed with a great amount of common sense.
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