the disgusting world of

on BBC 1 Panorama, right now.

Might help to provide a link so people know what you're talking about.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64346415

Switzerland has fairly decent laws forbidding 'Qualzucht', literal translation would be abusive breeding, which is what this is, make no mistake.

See here, from the BLV:
https://www.blv.admin.ch/blv/en/home.../zuechten.html

Not only is abusive breeding, where animals are bred for deformations that impact the ability to lead a normal life, but Switzerland goes a step further and bans the exhibition of these animals. That forces the breed clubs to take steps. (Or should, see below.)

From Vier Pföten Schweiz:
https://www.vier-pfoten.ch/kampagnen...hen-stoerungen

And a good article from Tierwelt:
https://www.tierwelt.ch/artikel/haus...-hunden-409178

And another from Hund Magazin:
http://hundemagazin.ch/qualzucht-ras...el-gezuechtet/


And a longer discussion on abusive breeding in cats,, from Tier Im Recht, written before the new Qualzucht law, here. I bring this up because this discussion highlights the issues and challenges around this kind of legislation:
https://www.tierimrecht.org/document...zucht_full.pdf

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We also have an huge education problem.

One of the threads I remember here on EF was someone looking for a kangaroo cat - his first response when told that these are banned because breeding for shortened forelegs is Qualzucht was that 'it's a natural mutation'. This was a person who genuinely did not understand how the cat badly would be impacted by the deformity, who had only heard the buzzwords that the 'Dark Side' uses to disguise what they do.

Fortunately the poster saw the light, thanks to many posters here explaining the issues. - one of the times the EF community truly made my heart happy. But that poster is far from alone - many, many people do not understand what abusive breeding is, and why it is a problem.

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But despite the above, we still have a problem. See this article, 'Qualzucht ist Illegal - doch weit weit verbreitet':
https://www.presseportal-schweiz.ch/...eit-verbreitet

This article pretty much sums up the problem with much of Swiss animal welfare legislation: lack of enforcement resources. Add in cavalier attitudes, and animals continue to suffer.

An issue that has me nashing my teeth whenever we (the general, cultural 'we') discuss animal welfare is that people often point to the law, pat themselves on the back, and then assume 'mission accomplished!'. Unfortunately laws are often ignored, with no consequences.

Don't get me wrong - at least we have laws on the books, we are ahead of the curve in that respect. If only we took those laws a bit more seriously.


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My world is rescue, and I have spent decades working and living with dogs who are victims of abusive - or even just bad - breeding. This issues makes my blood boil.

But I want to caution all who care about our four footed friends not to turn this discussion into a breeding = bad rant.

That is not the case, far from it. There are many ethical, responsible breeders concerned about the problem and breeding to eliminate it and educating dog owners. These good folk are allies with the animal welfare communities, we are all working together to bring out beloved pets back to genetic, physical, and temperamental health.

Buying a puppy or kitten from an ethical responsible breeder, then raising the pet right, giving him a forever home filled with love and care, IS animal welfare. This is the end goal we are all working towards.

I used to be more militant about 'adoption first', but I learned along the way that this stance isn't really helpful, especially in Switzerland. Rather, I see the good breeders as our very important and effective allies in the fight against the Dark Side.

I now cringe when I see battle lines being drawn among folks who all want the same thing. We all need to focus on the real enemy, The Dark Side of unregulated breeding, illegal dog smuggling, the Hundemafia... and the ignorance of pet buyers.

It seems these stringent laws also exist in the UK but these "breeders" are under the radar and exploiting loopholes wherever possible. One of the morons they were investigating had already been convicted and heavily fined but was openly breeding these poor beasts once again. As long as people are willing to pay top prices for these dogs there will always be a supply. The poor woman in the dog-rescue place was at her wits' end. Must be heart-breaking to be a dog lover and have to deal with these suffering, malformed souls.

This is a problem in Switzerland too.

Fines are ridiculously low. What's CHF 200 fine, when the price of a puppy is CHF 3000?

As above, laws need teeth - real consequences. Hit 'em where it hurts, the wallet.

That, and education, education, education. As long as naive buyers are standing in line with money at the ready, the evil trade will continue. Laws alone will never fix this - education is the way forward.

Those naive buyers are also dangerously unaware of the type of dog they are taking on, too. The XL Bully (Cane Corso mix, I think) is enormous and extremely strong. No doubt an absolute peach when in the right hands of a trained dog handler but the clowns that take them on have no idea how to socialise and train them. One CCTV shot showed an owner, who must have been max 9st wet-through, being dragged by the dog to lunge at a kid. His reaction to punch the poor dog repeatedly in the side of the head.

Oh yes, before education I do believe laws can fix to a good degree any deviation of human behaviour. Not completely eliminate, mind.

Fines - make it a few thousands for both people who offer these dogs and for those who buy these uncertified dogs.

And why would Tom groan at me for this? And Porsch too!

If you watch the video- those who are buying these extreme dogs (fetching up to half a million!!!) are NOT naïve. They are thugs and criminals, involved in all sorts of criminal activities, dog fighting, badger baiting and more.

What video?

At a guess, I would say it's the lack of context and link? But I could be wrong.

I watched the programme last night and there was also quite a bit dedicated to people who own these dogs who can't control them and quite clearly don't know how to, as well as people who use the dogs as you point out.

Well yes, many here are not from the UK. But I posted quickly last night as the programme began. Everyone from UK will know Panorama on BBC1, and would have found it immediately, if they wanted to watch it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64346415.amp

Maybe not everyone from the UK is watching Panorama on BBC1.

In fact I would venture to guess that most people don't watch tv shows anymore....maybe I'm wrong though, who knows.

But I so agree that buyers are not all innocent dog lovers, even if they buy those dogs as family pets. In fact the wish to give their kids a pet (they have no idea how to take care of) must be quite prevalent among certain buyers. The little ones love dogs so the little one must get one.
There should be more severe consequences for both ends of this deal, otherwise this commerce will continue flourishing.

Now on YouTube.

Saw this related report on the BBC last night. Poor lad and his mum.

Jack Lis: Mother of son killed by dog haunted by last image

greenmount- even if people's watching habits have changed, I can voucher that everyone from the UK knows about BBC1 and Panorama, and could easily switch to watch, occasionally.

Thank you for posting the link to the programme. Last night, it was just starting when I posted about it, and it was not yet available for publication.

Seeing that there are a lot of people not from the UK on EF, that link was appreciated that MF posted.

Maybe time to repost that poll on where everyone comes from??

Nope, haven’t had a TV since around 10 years or more. And it wasn’t Greenmount that posted the link.

Just a pointer for those who might have been interested. Anyone not interested, or not aware about Panorama, could just ignore, and go on their merry way.

The link is now available for you to watch. The choice is entirely yours. It is not 'just' about the UK, but about the USA too.

You do realise that there are more than a handful of your friends on this public forum? Or that this thread was viewed by 406 EF members already, right? Or perhaps you just put all of them on your “ignore” list, to make it a little bit more ‘exclusive’?