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Old 19.04.2023, 23:21
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Pet liability insurance

I Wonder if Versicherungsnachweis für die Haftpflicht als Hundehalter Insurnace covers the damaged cause by my dog in the apartment we live? For example peeing on a parked (I left him for two days with a friend and apparently the friend did not take him out and damaged the parked).

Also if my liability coveres the damages I made in the apartment? Such as an accidentally hit a chair leg to the door and made da damage….
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Old 19.04.2023, 23:29
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Re: Pet liability insurance

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(I left him for two days with a friend and apparently the friend did not take him out and damaged the parked)
I have no words for this
That poor poor dog, the floor would be the least of my worries.
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Old 20.04.2023, 02:56
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Re: Pet liability insurance

Speaking very broadly, your Privathaftpflicht insurance probably covers this, minus your deductible.

However - there are a few issue that mght complicate things, so first: Read your insurance policy carefully!

And second, take a browse through Tier Im Recht foundation website. FYI, Tier Im Recht is an excellent first resource for learning about legal issues involving pet ownership.

For instance:

https://www.tierimrecht.org/de/recht...tversicherung/

An longer article - but be aware that this is some years old:
https://www.tierimrecht.org/document...Tierschden.pdf


And an article from Hundeherz:
https://www.hundeherz.ch/fachbeitrag...s-hundehalters


Here is another article with an overview of some of the issues, from Hausinfo:
https://hausinfo.ch/de/recht/wohnen-...haustiere.html

---

A potential 'gotcha' might - and note I only say 'might' - be the issue of "grob fahrlässiges Verhalten des Tierhalters". Now, you yourself were not the negligent party here, but as the owner you still bear liability for damage done while your dog was in the care of a third party. (With the exception of long term care - but that doesn't appear to be relevant here.) So, even though the person caring for your dog was the negligent one, the root cause of the damage, you are still liable because you are the owner.

Would the insurance company invoke the negligence provision in this case? My gut reaction is probably not, but honestly I have no idea whatsoever. But I'm tossing this aspect out there, just so you can further research the issue yourself.

---

So - submit the damage to your insurer, see where it goes. Fingers crossed it will be covered.

---

But far, far more important than mere money:

Never let that sitter near your pup again! Your poor dog, left alone that way. Absolutely unconscionable. Shame on that sitter!

In the future, look for more responsible pet care. Easier said than done, I know. It's difficult to find responsible people to care for dogs here - I've spend years looking, I understand, I really do.

Unfortunately too many petsitters in Switzerland - even those charging eye-wateringly high prices - do not understand the concept of responsibility. Searching for one who takes the job seriously can be like searching for a needle in a haystack. There are too many who are incompetent or clueless or uncaring.

So first on your to-do list: Find a new sitter!

Do trial runs with the sitter several times before you travel. And, enlist the help of a friend or neighbor to check up on your dog - and dog sitter - while you are gone.

---

Hope the insurance comes out in your favor, and that you find a better person to care for your dog.

All the best.


ETA:

You might contact the Mieterverband for advise. If you are not yet a member, you can still contact them, but I believe there is a higher charge for a consultation then.

They will help you better understand how rules wrt damages in a rental flat.

Last edited by meloncollie; 20.04.2023 at 03:41.
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Old 20.04.2023, 21:02
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Re: Pet liability insurance

Thank you very much for your explanation.

Today after talking one of my friend said that he also has a black spot on the floor because of my dog peed on the floor. The story is he had a kidney failure and we noticed he was peeing a lot and went to a doctor. And in between he managed to damage my floor and my friends floor. I am moving out and I wonder if I can make a claim and if dog insurance will cover fixing my floor and friends floor as well? What options do we have?

P. S. I don’t leave him with anyone anymore. It is really difficult to find someone whom I would trust my dog!
Thanks 🙏

Quote:
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Speaking very broadly, your Privathaftpflicht insurance probably covers this, minus your deductible.

However - there are a few issue that mght complicate things, so first: Read your insurance policy carefully!

And second, take a browse through Tier Im Recht foundation website. FYI, Tier Im Recht is an excellent first resource for learning about legal issues involving pet ownership.

For instance:

https://www.tierimrecht.org/de/recht...tversicherung/

An longer article - but be aware that this is some years old:
https://www.tierimrecht.org/document...Tierschden.pdf


And an article from Hundeherz:
https://www.hundeherz.ch/fachbeitrag...s-hundehalters


Here is another article with an overview of some of the issues, from Hausinfo:
https://hausinfo.ch/de/recht/wohnen-...haustiere.html

---

A potential 'gotcha' might - and note I only say 'might' - be the issue of "grob fahrlässiges Verhalten des Tierhalters". Now, you yourself were not the negligent party here, but as the owner you still bear liability for damage done while your dog was in the care of a third party. (With the exception of long term care - but that doesn't appear to be relevant here.) So, even though the person caring for your dog was the negligent one, the root cause of the damage, you are still liable because you are the owner.

Would the insurance company invoke the negligence provision in this case? My gut reaction is probably not, but honestly I have no idea whatsoever. But I'm tossing this aspect out there, just so you can further research the issue yourself.

---

So - submit the damage to your insurer, see where it goes. Fingers crossed it will be covered.

---

But far, far more important than mere money:

Never let that sitter near your pup again! Your poor dog, left alone that way. Absolutely unconscionable. Shame on that sitter!

In the future, look for more responsible pet care. Easier said than done, I know. It's difficult to find responsible people to care for dogs here - I've spend years looking, I understand, I really do.

Unfortunately too many petsitters in Switzerland - even those charging eye-wateringly high prices - do not understand the concept of responsibility. Searching for one who takes the job seriously can be like searching for a needle in a haystack. There are too many who are incompetent or clueless or uncaring.

So first on your to-do list: Find a new sitter!

Do trial runs with the sitter several times before you travel. And, enlist the help of a friend or neighbor to check up on your dog - and dog sitter - while you are gone.

---

Hope the insurance comes out in your favor, and that you find a better person to care for your dog.

All the best.


ETA:

You might contact the Mieterverband for advise. If you are not yet a member, you can still contact them, but I believe there is a higher charge for a consultation then.

They will help you better understand how rules wrt damages in a rental flat.
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Old 20.04.2023, 23:37
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Re: Pet liability insurance

Meloncollie writes 'A potential 'gotcha' might - and note I only say 'might' - be the issue of "grob fahrlässiges Verhalten des Tierhalters". Now, you yourself were not the negligent party here, but as the owner you still bear liability for damage done while your dog was in the care of a third party. (With the exception of long term care - but that doesn't appear to be relevant here.) So, even though the person caring for your dog was the negligent one, the root cause of the damage, you are still liable because you are the owner.'

and she is very generous. If you leave your dog in the care of someone you don't know well and who does not know your dog very well, and has not demonstrated that he or she is not an absolute dog lover with experience- the to my mind, you are responsible.
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Old 21.04.2023, 00:05
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Re: Pet liability insurance

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Meloncollie writes 'A potential 'gotcha' might - and note I only say 'might' - be the issue of "grob fahrlässiges Verhalten des Tierhalters". Now, you yourself were not the negligent party here, but as the owner you still bear liability for damage done while your dog was in the care of a third party. (With the exception of long term care - but that doesn't appear to be relevant here.) So, even though the person caring for your dog was the negligent one, the root cause of the damage, you are still liable because you are the owner.'

and she is very generous. If you leave your dog in the care of someone you don't know well and who does not know your dog very well, and has not demonstrated that he or she is not an absolute dog lover with experience- the to my mind, you are responsible.
Gosh the dog has kidney failure and peed more often and they did not notice immediately hence had some damage. Does not sound like he is being irresponsible, these things happen with the best intention. We have a puppy and did not notice one evening that he made a little wee in a corner and we have damage. We must be completely irresponsible.

OP wrote friend did not take him out - I suspect it's not that friend never took dog out for days, just maybe not enough for the issue not to happen, or not in time.

OP is this what happened?

Last edited by kri; 21.04.2023 at 06:50.
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Old 21.04.2023, 02:33
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Re: Pet liability insurance

OK, with the OP's further explanation in the second post, I don't think there is an issue of 'grob fahrlässiges Verhalten'.

I had brought it up because the first post it read as if the sitter had had not taken the dog out at all, effectively abandoning the dog in the flat, leading to the damage. (The OP was not negligent, but rather there is the issue that in many cases an owner retains liability for damaged done when the dog is in the care of a third party.)

But now that does not seem to be the case - from the second explanation it reads now like more of a normal accident, caused by the poor dog's illness. And that should be covered by most Privathaftpflicht policies.

---

Is that what happened, Alubloba?

---

So to the OP: When you move out, the landlord will assess the damage and send you the bill. Submit that to your insurance company. You will have to pay your deductible, and there may be some quibbling... but hopefully most of the cost should be covered.

Typically a Privathaftpflicht policy covers damages caused by your dog to the property of a third party - which is what the floor is.

Again, though - read your insurance policy! Does it say anything about limits to coverage?

And contact the Mieterverrband for help, well ahead of moving out.

---

FYI, parkett floors are expected to last 30-40 years, depending on the product type. You would be expected to pay a percentage of that, based on the age of the parkett when you moved in. Also, it might be possible to simply replace the damaged boards, rather than the whole floor, or to sand and refinish the floor rather than replace it. Again depending on the product type. So you might not be responsible for the full whack. Get thee to the Mieterverband for advice!

Here is a table of expected 'Lebensdauer' of the various fixtures in a rented flat:
https://www.schweizerischer-mietersc...abelle.html/53
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Old 21.04.2023, 06:49
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Re: Pet liability insurance

From your link Meloncollie - the Parkett sanding and sealing has a 10 year lifespan and in my experience these kind of stains are sorted by that. Hence with a bit of luck the portion of damage to pay is not too much.

I have also wondered whether professionals would have a way to remove those stains without the full sanding and resealing.
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Old 21.04.2023, 14:56
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Re: Pet liability insurance

Sorry not explaining properly.

The story is he had kidney problems and was peeing a lot. So we did take care of that issue with going to vet and now he is healthier than me. Also during that time when he peed I did clean immediately and no problem. Two days the person whom stayed with my dog did take out but maybe it was not enough because when I came back there was a spot. This happend 3-4 weeks ago, now I cleaned Apartment moved furniture and I see another spot. So it might be that at night one point he peed and I did not see it, it is under a wardrobe.

Since this is not a new and I did not notice on time, would it be still covered? The problem is my Insurnace is in German and even with using translating apps it is not very clear for me what does it cover.

Thanks again for tour suggestions and for the people commenting about pure dog and so on, trust me I take care this dog better than you take care yourself!



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OK, with the OP's further explanation in the second post, I don't think there is an issue of 'grob fahrlässiges Verhalten'.

I had brought it up because the first post it read as if the sitter had had not taken the dog out at all, effectively abandoning the dog in the flat, leading to the damage. (The OP was not negligent, but rather there is the issue that in many cases an owner retains liability for damaged done when the dog is in the care of a third party.)

But now that does not seem to be the case - from the second explanation it reads now like more of a normal accident, caused by the poor dog's illness. And that should be covered by most Privathaftpflicht policies.

---

Is that what happened, Alubloba?

---

So to the OP: When you move out, the landlord will assess the damage and send you the bill. Submit that to your insurance company. You will have to pay your deductible, and there may be some quibbling... but hopefully most of the cost should be covered.

Typically a Privathaftpflicht policy covers damages caused by your dog to the property of a third party - which is what the floor is.

Again, though - read your insurance policy! Does it say anything about limits to coverage?

And contact the Mieterverrband for help, well ahead of moving out.

---

FYI, parkett floors are expected to last 30-40 years, depending on the product type. You would be expected to pay a percentage of that, based on the age of the parkett when you moved in. Also, it might be possible to simply replace the damaged boards, rather than the whole floor, or to sand and refinish the floor rather than replace it. Again depending on the product type. So you might not be responsible for the full whack. Get thee to the Mieterverband for advice!

Here is a table of expected 'Lebensdauer' of the various fixtures in a rented flat:
https://www.schweizerischer-mietersc...abelle.html/53
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Old 21.04.2023, 15:33
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Re: Pet liability insurance

What you describe might be covered by many typical policies.

However, without seeing your insurance policy we cannot say for sure what is, or is not, covered. You really need to have someone who is fluent in German go over your policy with you.

---

I'd urge you to engage the Mieterverband. Having one of their advisors with you at the handover might be helpful.

Are you still in Bern? If so, here is the tariff for their help with a handover:
https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv-be/h...ietraeume.html

Non-members pay a fee of CHF 70 on top of that.

---

Do you have a professional cleaning company scheduled to do the final cleaning? If so, that's another source of help. They should at least be able tell you if there is more that can be done to fix the floor damage before the handover.
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