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  #161  
Old 12.10.2011, 22:29
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

Wow! I am in shock....

First of all, to Paul:

I asked to you if you could answer questions here on the forum and you did. You did answer questions in a very respectful and gentleman way. You have been polite, nice and friendly when you could have send us for a walk.

R.e.s.p.e.c.t

I wish you came before when no one took care to enlighten us few months back. It would have made your life much easier today. It is late now but I have faith in you. You seem to have genuine good intention (otherwise you wouldn't have bother to answer and you could have send us again for that walk...)

Second of all, to others:

I don't care if you want to go or not for a drink. If I could I would go, just because I like to know and meet people of this forum and I am curious enough to meet The Boss.

I am in shock (or am I really?) to see how disrespectful some of you can be even to someone who does make an effort to come to us, answer us and try to calm things down a bit. By laughing at him, being disrespecful and plain rude you don't help anyone to make this place the place WE want to have.

So if you don't have anything nice or cleaver to say, I'll suggest you go for that walk.
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  #162  
Old 12.10.2011, 22:34
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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I also think that the goal of the company (beyond making profits of course...) is quite cool. Per the email that Deep Purple received from the company, it would seem that they're trying to set up forums across Europe. I think it would be great to have a network of people across Europe using sites like this. It really has been such a help for so many people who are new to the countries (and I know that I have also found some useful info on Toytown ). Kudos to the guy for having the guts & entrepreneurial drive to try to create a trans-European network like this.
And for those in Norway, we have a new one ( no discussion forum yet, but coming soon ):

http://www.thelocal.no/

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  #163  
Old 13.10.2011, 09:02
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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And for those in Norway, we have a new one ( no discussion forum yet, but coming soon ):

http://www.thelocal.no/


thelocal.NO!

I can see that catching on
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  #164  
Old 13.10.2011, 09:58
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

Im a bit out of it...but what is this T&C thing that gets referred to?
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  #165  
Old 13.10.2011, 10:57
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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Indeed.

It's just a shame our friends from Geneva, Neuchatel, Lausanne, Lugano, Sion, Chur and Fribourg can't attend, isn't it?
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I live close enough to Zurich to make it for an evening out, but I shan't attend.

The problem is that having an officially organised event which only a tiny percentage of the membership can attend merely reinforces the cliquey feeling about which so many members - especially those located far from Zurich - have complained over the last few years.

It's one thing for an EF member to organise Wednesday drinks at the Viaukt, to which some chap from Sweden happens to turn up. Quite another to organise a "Drinks evening (with the founder of the local)" in Zurich, to which the overwhelming majority of people who might be interested in hearing what the founder of the Local has to say for himself will be excluded merely because they don't happen to live in or near the city.

Switzerland is remarkable for its lack of centralisation. In the confederation, Zurich is no more important than Bern, Basel, Geneva, Lausanne or Lugano.

It's a shame the English Forum doesn't observe the same principle.

Have your drinks with the Zurich in-crowd. Enjoy yourself!

But don't forget that there are an awful lot of people on EF who will be feeling left out in the cold because of this.
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A bit harsh he can't turn up at everyone's doorsteps and ask their opinion. Feck me what should he do next "setup a roadshow" Radio 1 80's style Mick Read?

He's from Sweden, give him a break. Possibly should have been Geneva, Basel and Zurich. Which is close enough for most people to get a pop at the cherry. Let him meet the nice guys in Zurich then perhaps if he doesn't get his head blown off he'll make a few visits elsewhere.

You like me live outside of Zurich and I'll probably make the effort. It's up to you, if it means that much it's a hour on the train for a night on the pop.

What's the problem?!
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you can get to zurich pretty easily from most of switzerland. the guy is coming from sweden (swaziland?) fer christs sake! and he's offered to do another day in basel if there's demand. what more do you want?? seriously, give them an inch...
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People thought I was being mean spirited when I objected to the German-language thread on the same principle.

Is the English Forum for a tiny clique of Zurich residents or German speakers, or is it for everyone who wishes to be part of it, regardless of where they live in Switzerland?
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just FYI... from my house to Zurich it's a 3.5 hour train ride.. then I gotta find this bar.. a bit much for the chance of a free beer and answers to questions that could be answered here.

as for Paul coming all the way from Sweden.... errr... he's the one that owns this ( for profit ) enterprise
As one of the ones who hasn't received the new T&C email (my email is fine and I've checked my spam folders) I would be interested in hearing from Paul directly but Zurich (and Basel) are just too far to go on a weekday evening. I think if there are going to be two locations then one of them should be in Romandie. I think it's a bit ridiculous to say that Zurich is easily accessible from most of Switzerland when for a lot of people it would involve a long and time consuming journey (at night) and considerable expense.
Zurich is pretty easy to get to from Basel (hell people do it on a regular basis for social events) so why not organise a second evening for people located in the southern half of Switzerland (La Chaux de Fonds anyone).
I am strongly biased towards Neuchatel as I live here but would probably venture to Bern, Fribourg or Lausanne.

An alternative could be a FAQ thread/post (sticky) with all the qustions asked by members and the Local's answers in the one place. The questions thread is interesting but is a bit tiresome to trawl through. Having all the Q and A's in the one place would make things easier for everyone.

Just my two pennorth for what it's worth.

I'm not a big poster and only tend to post when I think it might be useful or interesting for somebody so there's nothing I've written on here on here that would be of any interest to a wider audience.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 13.10.2011 at 11:33.
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  #166  
Old 13.10.2011, 13:50
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

Wow. I am (almost) speechless. Of late I have not had all that much time to procrastinate and post to EF and, as a result, missed the build-up to the drama we have today. While I can understand that a lot of people take any changes to something very familiar seriously and personally, this really seems to have been blown out of proportion. Why, I wonder? Soap operas are passé and reality TV is in, so perhaps this is the online version of reality TV? Or EFers have been caught up in the wave of frustration sweeping the world: Tea Party, Arab Spring, UK riots, demonstrations on Wall Street? Or is it simply a kind of fear: fear of change, fear of loss, fear of the law? I don’t know.

I’d like to put in my 2¢ about the new terms and conditions.

First, I think it is widely agreed that it was very badly handled and those who handled it badly have acknowledge this and are trying, it seems to me, to make amends.

Second, most of the comments on the new t&cs seem to suggest that things have now changed for the worse and EFers rights are being infringed. In fact, having t&cs makes the situation better for everyone because there is clarity to the contractual relationship, which existed as soon as anyone became a member and started posting. So, this concern, for example,:
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But now the commercial owners have made it very clear, albeit in a very clumsy and arrogant way, that they have the right to sell on and share my work, I won't be sharing as much from now on... I'll be saving all of that for publishing elsewhere.
actually existed beforehand too. You posted on a public forum, which means you granted whatever “work” you posted to the public domain where anyone can then use, copy, etc. without giving you, the owner, any credit. Such is the world on the internet.

By accepting the new t&cs, you are entering into a new private agreement with the owners of the site. Private agreements have very few restrictions, whether they are made in Switzerland or in Sweden. So, parties can agree to have their disputes resolved before the courts of, say, Sweden and that is fine. If this were a consumer contract, which it is not, there are certain protections that would kick in by law to protect the consumer as a weaker party. That is not the case here. What is the case? Paul as owner of this site has a great deal of legal risk. Particularly in Germany there have been a series of cases in which forum owners were found to be liable for discussions and comments posted on their sites. There have also been cases of forum owners being sued by people who were banned from their sites. (This explains the reason for this concern

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For me, it's simply because the new T&Cs are accompanied with the threat of a permanent lock out. That’s holding a gun to my head and I don’t like that.
So, I would imagine, Paul is aware of his liability and the legal risks and has introduced the t&cs to bring a bit of legal certainty and clarity into his life mostly, but also our lives.

Not that the t&cs bring all that much certainty: these are often gray areas of the law, areas where the law has to catch up to the technology, so not everything is hard and fast. For example, if there is something unusual or unexpected in the t&cs, it is often the case that the other party, not the creator of the t&cs, will not be bound to that particular clause that is unexpected or unusual. While I have not read the t&cs with a legally exact eye, they do seem quite standard, at times almost boilerplate-standard. That doesn’t make them good or bad, that doesn’t mean there is nothing in them that could count as unexpected or unusual, and that doesn’t mean that you should accept them. But, if you want to continue contributing to EF, and I hope you do and will, then you have to accept them. Before you accept them, read them and read about such t&cs so you understand what you have to fear and what you don’t have to fear. This is, I assume, one of the reasons for the Drinks with Paul: you have the chance to get answers to any worries and concerns you have and then make up your mind as to whether you want to agree to the new t&cs.

Finally, please don’t let yourself get so worked up over these things that you damage the wonderful community that EF has become, even if it is not like it used to be or like you would like it to be, or that you say things and put yourself in a position where you feel like you have to leave and cannot come back. That would be a loss for all of us.
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  #167  
Old 13.10.2011, 14:16
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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actually existed beforehand too. You posted on a public forum, which means you granted whatever “work” you posted to the public domain where anyone can then use, copy, etc. without giving you, the owner, any credit. Such is the world on the internet.
that's not true, and if it were the case, there would be no real need for the T&Cs to change.

the fact is, that EF refrained from asking for rights and let you use the forum, and users refrained from suing EF for copyright infringement. it might be 'unclear' but in practice it works well.

now EF is trying to take those rights by enforcing new T&Cs and suggest you delete your account if you don't agree. if you follow this and delete, then original posts are left and you have no way to delete, so they still end up using the material, but you no longer have a quid pro quo of being able to use the forum.
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  #168  
Old 13.10.2011, 14:33
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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So if you don't have anything nice or cleaver to say, I'll suggest you go for that walk.
Are we talking this kind of cleaver?

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  #169  
Old 13.10.2011, 14:34
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

I think the whole riff-raff with the T&Cs are blown out of proportion. I can assume, that the EF is and will be run the same way. Since the local is a company and they most likely have lawyers on payroll, it is no more than standard practice to implement terms which protect the company from getting into legal problems (thus the new T&Cs technicality).
Your contributions prior to the new T&Cs were certainly used by various sources and I take it, that they weren't necessarily passed on by THE LOCAL. Do a simple google search of your, mine or DBs username and you'll see that the content will be displayed on various sites.
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  #170  
Old 13.10.2011, 14:52
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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Do a simple google search of your, mine or DBs username and you'll see that the content will be displayed on various sites.
I type my user name and all I get is some freak rapper artist in the U.S.of A. .. and based on his real name he has no claim to "grynch"

I think I'm gonna sue.... can anyone recommend a good lawyer. ( not the EF ones apparently )
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Old 13.10.2011, 14:58
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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Wow. I am (almost) speechless.

massive snip
Not really
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  #172  
Old 13.10.2011, 19:51
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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Im a bit out of it...but what is this T&C thing that gets referred to?
You can't be more out of it than me, but I think T&C refers to Terms & Conditions — like, there was a change in the recent past...

...and it drew — er — some attention.
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  #173  
Old 13.10.2011, 21:05
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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...and it drew — er — some attention.
Eh...... a tad!

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  #174  
Old 14.10.2011, 12:26
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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So what's the fuss?
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He could also do a live web chat at a specific time (for example) and could (for example) schedule one hour every month to do the same, so that any and all who want questions asked, can ask them.
He could come round and make some sandwiches for us too but we'd still find reasons to complain about how he runs his company. Mainly selfish reasons. Oh, you've gone. Talking to a ghost...

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What a load of preening, self important, diva behaviour has been seen here since the guy did what you had asked him to do and talk to you ...
It's people who are more interested in themselves than the community who are making the most noise. Some Members have managed phenomenal post / rep / thanks count while delivering very little useful information on life in Switzerland. Curious, eh? There was a time when such towering heros - long before such status symbols were displayed - spent their online hours helping other people with their problems and concerns. (I blame Facebook for making the internet selfish.)

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Old 14.10.2011, 12:36
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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It's people who are more interested in themselves than the community who are making the most noise.
Actually, not in my case. I don't care about the new terms and conditions. I'm not bothered by the commercial direction the forum is taking. I could quite easily attend the drinks meeting in Zurich. But I won't, because I believe that having a drinks meeting in one town in Switzerland, which a maximum or forty, maybe fifty people could realistically attend, is exclusive and goes against the spirit of an online forum which is frequented by people all across Switzerland and beyond.

The needs of the wider forum would be better served by Paul committing himself to being available here on the forum at a particular time on a particular day, where every one of the 60 000 or so members of EF would be able to ask him questions, make suggestions or just read what he has to say.

A cosy drinks session at which an insignificant proportion of the community have the opportunity to bend his ear is just a grand - but ultimately pointless - gesture.

But I'm just a selfish mardy arse, so don't mind me.
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  #176  
Old 14.10.2011, 12:40
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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Actually, not in my case. I don't care about the new terms and conditions. I'm not bothered by the commercial direction the forum is taking. I could quite easily attend the drinks meeting in Zurich. But I won't, because I believe that having a drinks meeting in one town in Switzerland, which a maximum or forty, maybe fifty people could realistically attend, is exclusive and goes against the spirit of an online forum which is frequented by people all across Switzerland and beyond.

The needs of the wider forum would be better served by Paul committing himself to being available here on the forum at a particular time on a particular day, where every one of the 60 000 or so members of EF would be able to ask him questions, make suggestions or just read what he has to say.

A cosy drinks session at which an insignificant proportion of the community have the opportunity to bend his ear is just a grand - but ultimately pointless - gesture.

But I'm just a selfish mardy arse, so don't mind me.
I have been reading your posts and you seem to be going on and on about the same thing. Are you sponsored by Duracell?
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Old 14.10.2011, 12:42
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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I have been reading your posts and you seem to be going on and on about the same thing. Are you sponsored by Duracell?
Swissbob, Weejeem, Cata1yst, Economisto out; GorillaCarrot in.

Long live EF!
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Old 14.10.2011, 12:45
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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Swissbob, Weejeem, Cata1yst, Economisto out; GorillaCarrot in.

Long live EF!
Hello and welcome to the Forum, GorillaCarrot.
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Old 14.10.2011, 12:46
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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Swissbob, Weejeem, Cata1yst, Economisto out; GorillaCarrot in.

Long live EF!
Don't you ever get tired of shit stirring?
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Old 14.10.2011, 12:48
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Re: Drinks evening (with founder of The Local)

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Hello and welcome to the Forum, GorillaCarrot.
Thanks UncleMax. Keep up the good work.
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