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Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride
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patrickrd
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17.08.2008 15:30 to 18:30
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City/Town: Zürich
Event Type: Sports
Meeting Point: Bhf. Oerlikon - Rear side at recycling

This is a challenging ride north of Zürich starting from Oerlikon. Participants should be accustomed to climbing hills, riding a distance of 40 miles (65 km), and familiar with safe cycling and group cycling guidelines below.

We will follow a similar route as last week, however one more hill is added and the route heads into some great scenic countryside instead of up to the Rhine. This ride is a bit more challenging than last week but we will still wait and regroup at the top of hills.

Exact meeting point and route will be posted later.

Meeting Place: Bahnhof Oerlikon - Rear side at the recycling bins.
Start Time: 03:30 PM (no ride if raining)

Distance: ~60-70 km

Climbing: This contains several difficult climbs. Participants should be accustomed to climbing multiple hills larger than 150m and slopes of up to 12º.
Ride Time: 2.5-3 hours (approx.)

Route Map: http://www.mapmyride.com/route/ch/z%fcrich/453492999027

Small Print: Be sure to wear a helmet! We will be riding on roads with cars and possibly tractors coming directly at you on small paths. Anyone participating in the EF rides are doing so at his/her own risk.

GROUP CYCLING SAFETY
First, review the website below for a list of all the common ways potentially fatal bike accidents happen, and easy things you can do to greatly minimize your risk. I have been cycling for years, but even I found some situations I have not considered.
http://bicyclesafe.com/

Second, below are some very basic guidelines for group riding. I copied these out of the guidelines for a MS150 charity ride (http://bikenjb.nationalmssociety.org/site/DocServer/BikeSafetyBrochure.pdf?docID=25002)
  1. Group cycling has its own form of communication. The presence of road hazards, directions, and need-to-know information is relayed through the pack of riders by gestures and words. Remember to pass all communication on to the next cyclist behind you in the group. Speak loudly and clearly.
  2. The following are the most common terms you may hear in group-sponsored rides:
    1. On your Left: This means a rider is approaching your left side. Allow room to pass.
    2. Car back: This means a car is approaching from the rear. All riders make an effort to move to the right of the road in a single file until the car passes. In most states, the law requires cyclists to ride no more than two abreast. This ensures that traffic will not be impeded, and will make passing easier and safer for the cyclists.
    3. Gravel - Pothole - Sand - Tracks: Each of these messages is to alert the riders behind you of hazardous road conditions. The words are combined with the gesture of pointing to the hazard well in advance.
    4. Flat: This indicates that a rider has suffered a flat tire. Allow enough room for the rider to slow down and move to the right side of the road for repair. Offer assistance if needed.
    5. Slowing: The cyclist in front of you is slowing down. Use caution and prepare to stop. Many cyclists use the palm of their hand toward riders behind them to indicate slowing and stopping.
    6. Stopping: This indicates that a rider ahead is stopping. Do not forget to unclip from your pedals.
  3. Your responsibility in a pack includes:
    1. Be aware of others around you.
    2. Communicate well in advance. Use gestures in combination with verbal commands.
    3. Ride with your head up. Look down the road; not at the person in front of you.
    4. Maintain control and speed of your bike, even going downhill.
    5. Know your limits. Crashes can occur when inexperienced riders do not have bike-handling skills to make quick decisions in a pack.
    6. Safety starts with you. Group mentality is not always safe. Expect to stop at all redlights and stop signs—it is the law! Each cyclist is responsible for verifying that the intersection is clear.
    7. Adjust your safety zone to fit the conditions of the road, weather and traffic.
    8. Always plan an escape route.
    9. Never overlap your wheels with another cyclist.
    10. Do not use aerobars in a pack.
    11. Be aware of how weather will affect your bike. Riding in wet conditions requires slower speeds and greater breaking distances.
    12. Be respectful of other riders. Help others when needed.
  4. Bicycle Laws
    1. All states [similar laws in Switzerland] consider cyclists vehicle operators, and give them the same rights and duties as other drivers.
    2. Know and obey all traffic laws: The golden rule of bicycling in a group is Be Predictable!
    3. Stay right: Ride in the right portion of the rightmost lane in the direction you are traveling and leave at least four feet between your handlebars and parked cars or other hazards such as other cyclists. You may move left when passing slower vehicles or preparing for a left turn.
    4. Obey all traffic signs and signals: Avoid “following the leader” through traffic signs and signals; you are required to obey all traffic signs and signals, including stopping at red lights and stop signs.
    5. Look & signal before you move: Always scan behind you before changing lanes or making turns. A continuous arm signal is required prior to a turn or lane change (unless arm is needed to control the bike) and while stopped waiting to turn.
    6. Two at a time: Ride no more than two abreast and do not impede traffic. If a part of the road has been closed and dedicated to “bicycle travel only” you may ride more than two abreast.
Finally, I would like to add my own advise for riding in a group, especially in a paceline:
  1. Ride as smoothly as possible. Any unpredictable motion (lateral movement, braking, standing up out of saddle) can cause the person behind you to crash. Riding smoothly means:
    1. Maintain a constant pedaling effort.
    2. Do not brake unless you have to for your own safety. If the group is braking, it helps to yell "braking" so those behind you have time to prepare.
    3. Lateral (sideways) movements should be deliberately slow and smooth. Never make a quick lateral movement as you may cross tires with the person behind you, or startle passing vehicles that may lead to collisions.
  2. Maintain a single-file paceline. Although these are social rides, on busy roads riding next to someone side-by-side should be avoided. Save conversations for wide, non-busy roads or bike paths.
  3. Drop back on the left. If you are leading a paceline and want to drop to the back, you should first look to your left to make sure there is not traffic approaching. Then, you should slowly adjust your position to the left such that the paceline can pass you on your right. You should signal to the person behind you that you are dropping back (such as flaring out your elbow), and then slowly reduce your speed. Rejoin the paceline at the back.
  4. Leave enough space to the cyclist in front of you. This is based on your comfort level. New riders should leave at least a bicycle length or two between you and the rider in front of you.
  5. Look down the road, not at the cyclist in front of you.
  6. DO NOT DO ANYTHING SUDDENLY!

RSVP'd Yes: 2 (2 members and No guests)
  • patrickrd - Still going to do a ride at 3:30 as planned, but less intense
  • ManBearPig - Pumping up my Villiger
RSVP'd Maybe: 2 (2 members and No guests)
  • Rahul - going on a hike tomorrow..will see how my legs feel on Sunday.
  • bom - I will be there but I'm not sure I will be able to do the whole route.
RSVP'd No: 4
  • Eire - Wrong sort of tyres for a Sunday ride. But good on ya for organising.
  • hillseeker - Have a prior commitment, but hope to make it one of these times... Have fun!
  • Johanna - Sadly, i have yet to fix my bike (it needs an overhaul!) from last week... Hope to be back out there soon. Have fun!
  • dakman - sorry going to do some trail riding with Mrs...but will join in the future - also with the reduction of light in the evenings, this may become them main group ride
RSVP sign-ups for this event are now closed.
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  #2  
Old 12.08.2008, 18:45
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

All, please check out this new route and offer your feedback. It seemed that last weekend that the majority would have enjoyed a slightly faster or more challenging ride, so that is reflected in this route. If I am wrong please let me know! I apologize to those who would enjoy a slow or route with fewer hills, but it is difficult to satisfy all people with one ride so I am trying to accommodate the most people (and selfishly my own interest!). Perhaps there can be more than one group if there is enough interest.
  #3  
Old 14.08.2008, 10:40
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

Bümpity bümpli

The weather forecast is looking a bit wet but I guess it would improve if there is really an storm from Th-Fr as expected so the heavens would be discharged for the weekend


Sunday

12°/22°
  #4  
Old 15.08.2008, 09:14
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

another bumpli

the weather forecast looks darker now

Sunday

11°/19
  #5  
Old 15.08.2008, 09:51
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

i will be interested in going with you guys(i am away all weekends this month tho.)

what is the average you guys bike with?
  #6  
Old 15.08.2008, 15:54
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

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what is the average you guys bike with?
We've only done this ride once, but I am aiming for a ride with roughly the following statistics:
  • 600m total climbing (3 somewhat long, difficult climbs)
  • roughly 50-70km
  • average speed (including all the climbing) ~14-16mph
It is probably good for people who are accustomed to ride on road bikes more than 120km/week including lots of hills.

Anybody else interested for this weekend?
  #7  
Old 16.08.2008, 09:43
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

sounds good to me. i'll hook up with you guys when i am back.
  #8  
Old 16.08.2008, 18:57
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

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All, please check out this new route and offer your feedback. It seemed that last weekend that the majority would have enjoyed a slightly faster or more challenging ride, so that is reflected in this route. If I am wrong please let me know! I apologize to those who would enjoy a slow or route with fewer hills, but it is difficult to satisfy all people with one ride so I am trying to accommodate the most people (and selfishly my own interest!). Perhaps there can be more than one group if there is enough interest.
my 2 cents.

They have already a very hilly and challenging ride on thursdays.

Diversity of choice is good.
  #9  
Old 17.08.2008, 10:02
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

Speaking of which... I still have not recovered from the Thursday ride -- probably not a good idea that I do the route I posted today. Yesterday my girlfriend was beating me up very short 10m climbs

Anyway I am not so keen on going out for a ride today, especially a challenging or long one; and there doesn't seem to be much interest this week, so what do you say we just start an interest list for next week and see what kind of ride people would like to do? I was hoping more people would post their opinions on length/difficulty (as you did). But still willing to lead a little bit easier ride if we can get at least 3-4 people together. Will check the forum around 1pm to confirm one way or another.

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my 2 cents.

They have already a very hilly and challenging ride on thursdays.

Diversity of choice is good.
  #10  
Old 17.08.2008, 10:11
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

Me too

I am going today on a more soft ride with some girls on touring bikes from Zürich to the Greifensee with picnic and swiming on the lake included.

So I guess we cancel for this weekend and we organise it for next
  #11  
Old 17.08.2008, 10:12
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

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Me too

I am going today on a more soft ride with some girls on touring bikes from Zürich to the Greifensee with picnic and swiming on the lake included.

So I guess we cancel for this weekend and we organise it for next

Don't forget your speedo.

there goes my stomach again --jk
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  #12  
Old 17.08.2008, 10:26
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

I will profit of this opportunity to post my thoughts here.

I organise the tennis meetings on saturday, and have participated on the sundays footy.

The way I do and also Uncle_Max does, is to have and open, friendly and relaxed social/sports activity.

Me too, I made the tennis meeting open for everybody, from beginners to advanced, I take care of the beginners and strive to meke them feel comfortable and welcome.

The goal of the tennis meetings is to get the maximum number of english forum tennis players together so they can know each other, play on a relaxed friendly environment and then like this maybe find matching players to organise their own games.

This has been quite sucessful and we had a record of 20 players and a normal number of 12-16 players every saturday. As succesful as the footy that gathered also 20something players.

Tennis is easier to organise, because you can get many courts so we could get a beginners, and intermediate and an advanced court, playing doubles ( 12 players total ) and even we had coaching/lessons.

And I as the organiser had the participants, and specially the new ones and the beginners as my priority. Some weekends I didn't play much myself to cede my place to and to help the new ones. As I know now many players I can allways play during the week with them, so the saturday is more a tennis facilitation event for the forum, not for my own pleasure or my own elitist group.

My thought is that if you are good and prefer to play with advanced ones. you don't need to come to the tennis event, you could go to any tennis club and challenge the top ranked there or get into the tournaments and get to play with the best in the region.

The tennis event is to make available a tennis event to amateur english speaking players of all levels. And it was succesful on that.

The same logic could be applied to the road cycling events. I know it is more difficult as you would need different level pelotons with a peloton leader on each etc.

What deterred me to come to Thursday rides were 2 factors,

1st - Is hard for me to arrive there on time on a thursday.
2nd - There was an elitist attitude ( this is a challenging ride for the very fit with a very hilly path )

I wish we could have a bike ride for the intermediate amateurs like me.

It would be even better to have one for the beginers that are still learning the skills or are interested in road cycling but didn't do it before etc.

I'd be willing to take care of those and teach them the few things I know about road cycling. Maybe there is still time in this summer end to do it.

I hope this thoughts helps to organise the future rides

Last edited by Salsa_Lover; 17.08.2008 at 10:38.
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  #13  
Old 17.08.2008, 10:29
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

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Don't forget your speedo.

there goes my stomach again --jk
speedo is on the bag, but my finger is not yet healed...
  #14  
Old 17.08.2008, 10:38
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

Salsa,

Thanks for comments and we have been over this territory before but what you suggest doesn't lend itself to a group ride on a weekday. Because of traffic and the geography (or geology) of zurich. There just aren't many flat routes, where I would want to participate in a group ride, especially with beginners (traffic is enough of a problem with the more experienced riders)....a weekend ride would lend itself to what you suggest much more freely and would be happy if someone wants to arrange one.(patrick has a good start on this)...as I noted many weekends are occupied but would try to make it.

Cycling in Zurich on a weekday in traffic reduced areas requires climbing hills.

Personally, I don't think the group ride on Thursday is particularly elitist because if so 85% of the riders would have not shown up the next week or dropped me for dead on the first climb. In fact, if anything the group is fairly tolerant compared to other group rides I know of...where if you can't keep up, hasta la vista, see you next week(when you are in better shape).

I think a comparison between cycling and tennis is not very relevant. A group of 20+ cyclists of different abilities in the roads around Zurich on a weekday evenings on the flat parts would be a recipe for disaster, imo. And a seconday note, the Thursday ride developed mostly as just me looking for someone to ride with, my intentions were never as pure as yours..seriously I only get to ride three times a week and am training for events and I need to push myself those three times a week otherwise I won't have the fitness I need...I am not being elitist just practical

Last edited by dakman; 17.08.2008 at 11:01.
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Old 17.08.2008, 10:41
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

I'd be interested in going on a ride next week -- would that be Sunday the 24th, same time?

Cheers,

dehansen
  #16  
Old 17.08.2008, 11:52
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

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I will profit of this opportunity to post my thoughts here.

I organise the tennis meetings on saturday, and have participated on the sundays footy.

The way I do and also Uncle_Max does, is to have and open, friendly and relaxed social/sports activity.

Me too, I made the tennis meeting open for everybody, from beginners to advanced, I take care of the beginners and strive to meke them feel comfortable and welcome.

The goal of the tennis meetings is to get the maximum number of english forum tennis players together so they can know each other, play on a relaxed friendly environment and then like this maybe find matching players to organise their own games.

This has been quite sucessful and we had a record of 20 players and a normal number of 12-16 players every saturday. As succesful as the footy that gathered also 20something players.

Tennis is easier to organise, because you can get many courts so we could get a beginners, and intermediate and an advanced court, playing doubles ( 12 players total ) and even we had coaching/lessons.

And I as the organiser had the participants, and specially the new ones and the beginners as my priority. Some weekends I didn't play much myself to cede my place to and to help the new ones. As I know now many players I can allways play during the week with them, so the saturday is more a tennis facilitation event for the forum, not for my own pleasure or my own elitist group.

My thought is that if you are good and prefer to play with advanced ones. you don't need to come to the tennis event, you could go to any tennis club and challenge the top ranked there or get into the tournaments and get to play with the best in the region.

The tennis event is to make available a tennis event to amateur english speaking players of all levels. And it was succesful on that.

The same logic could be applied to the road cycling events. I know it is more difficult as you would need different level pelotons with a peloton leader on each etc.

What deterred me to come to Thursday rides were 2 factors,

1st - Is hard for me to arrive there on time on a thursday.
2nd - There was an elitist attitude ( this is a challenging ride for the very fit with a very hilly path )

I wish we could have a bike ride for the intermediate amateurs like me.

It would be even better to have one for the beginers that are still learning the skills or are interested in road cycling but didn't do it before etc.

I'd be willing to take care of those and teach them the few things I know about road cycling. Maybe there is still time in this summer end to do it.

I hope this thoughts helps to organise the future rides
I take exception to your "elitist" comments. We are by no means elitists. There is a range of fitnesses in the group and if truth be told I am one of the weaker riders, who only started riding a road bike this season.

All of the road and mountain bike rides that are organised are catered for EVERYONE! There is bound to be a mix of abilities so the meeting places and routes are planned to be as safe as possible for all of those participating in the ride. If we were elitist I think the routes could be very different if we wanted them to be!

Furthermore on the elitist topic, I seem to remember spending alot of my time, on the MTB rides you came on, and on the first road bike ride helping YOU. I stayed with you on many sections of trail and tried to show you how to ride them time and time again, but you, yourself simply would not make the commitment to try to do it. I did the same on the first road bike ride, I turned around left Dakman and Nick, and went back down the hill to help pace you back up the hill. As I remember you simply gave up and went back home. leaving me to try to catch up to the other two on my own! If I gave up so easily I would also not have attended any Thursday night rides, and there would be no Tuesday night MTB rides. The "elitist" term you use, is not only uncalled for but I think it is an insult to the people who are organising these events. We go out of our way to help newcomers, and infact love to have newcomers come to both the Road and MTB rides.

Rahul, Myself, PatrickRD and a few more have all come to the road rides as newbies or relative newbies. You yourself tout your cycling knowledge on this forum as if you are an experienced and seasoned rider. If this is the case then you should not have a problem with the rides when us real newbies to the sport of road biking don't seam to have a problem and put the effort in to try to keep up with the seasoned riders.

Since the start of the MTB rides we have had numerous newbies come along. I have personally tried to help all of them cope with the trails we are doing. People like Roastbeef came along on a bike prepared with semi slick road tyres and took the advice I gave him (same as the advice I gave you!) and actually made an effort. He rode Uetliberg for the first time in very challenging and slippery conditions on a bike that was not set up optimally for challenge. He came through it and is now a regular and very welcome particpant in the Tuesday evening rides.

I'm sorry if this is longwinded and perhaps may even seem a little rude. But your use of the term elitist really P!$$es me off. People have been nothing but helpfull to you when you came on both the road and mountain rides, I personally went to assist you on many occasions, both on road and mountain rides. We have explained the reasons why we didn't take your suggestions (such as meetingin in the city) on board, and I think given very valid SAFETY reasons for not using these suggestions. These safety reasons alone show that we are not elitist simply because we are trying to make the rides as safe as possible for all levels of experience.

I suggest you get out on your bike, improve your fitness and improve your bike handling skills, rather then complaining about being left out in the cold. I'm sure that despite your complaints people will still give you the benifit of the doubt should you want to join us on future rides, but if you don't actually make an effort yourself, no one else can actually ride the bike for you!

Please retract the eilitist comments!

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Salsa,

Thanks for comments and we have been over this territory before but what you suggest doesn't lend itself to a group ride on a weekday. Because of traffic and the geography (or geology) of zurich. There just aren't many flat routes, where I would want to participate in a group ride, especially with beginners (traffic is enough of a problem with the more experienced riders)....a weekend ride would lend itself to what you suggest much more freely and would be happy if someone wants to arrange one.(patrick has a good start on this)...as I noted many weekends are occupied but would try to make it.

Cycling in Zurich on a weekday in traffic reduced areas requires climbing hills.

Personally, I don't think the group ride on Thursday is particularly elitist because if so 85% of the riders would have not shown up the next week or dropped me for dead on the first climb. In fact, if anything the group is fairly tolerant compared to other group rides I know of...where if you can't keep up, hasta la vista, see you next week(when you are in better shape).

I think a comparison between cycling and tennis is not very relevant. A group of 20+ cyclists of different abilities in the roads around Zurich on a weekday evenings on the flat parts would be a recipe for disaster, imo. And a seconday note, the Thursday ride developed mostly as just me looking for someone to ride with, my intentions were never as pure as yours..seriously I only get to ride three times a week and am training for events and I need to push myself those three times a week otherwise I won't have the fitness I need...I am not being elitist just practical
Thanks Dakamn. Well said.
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Old 17.08.2008, 12:08
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

with these posts going on, I would not be surprised if the OP was out on his terrace, doing a rain dance
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Old 17.08.2008, 12:10
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

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with these posts going on, I would not be surprised if the OP was doing a rain dance on his terrace
Please no rain, should be going out on the knobbly tyres shortly. The forecast seems like it will be overcast but stay dry though!
  #19  
Old 17.08.2008, 12:23
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

I'm still thinking of a ride (probably similar to last week) at 3:30 if anybody is interested.
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Old 17.08.2008, 12:38
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Re: Oerlikon Sunday Road Bike Ride

hey my legs are sore because of the long hike yesterday..but i can join you for the ride..we can stick to your original ride plan but heaven knows how good will I feel during the ride..but will give it a shot anyway.I will pm you my no. and you can send me urs..
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