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  #41  
Old 11.02.2011, 11:20
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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Our gym is a "les mills" and I went along to the Body Pump once, nearly well killed me. I will go back though, I'm determined (honest), problem is it's on a Saturday morning, my lie-in day
Yeah, I have a long list of excuses for not going for the past two months as well
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Old 11.02.2011, 11:20
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

internet discussions on weightlifting always degenerate into a ridiculous discussion about the science behind nutrition and physiology. come on guys, you realize that 99% of that stuff is irrelevant to the OP. all he needs to do is stop eating junk food and do some cardio and weightlifting outside of his comfort zone. he will lose fat and gain muscle. maybe he wont get his body fat down to 4% while looking ripped as hell but it will definitely be a big improvement.

OP: some people just don't really gain that much muscle. wouldn't worry about it too much.
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  #43  
Old 11.02.2011, 11:23
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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NO PAIN - NO GAIN !!!

You cannot lose weight and gain muscles at the same time.
I think it was "Lose fat and gain weight at the same time".

Losing weight and gaining muscles doesn't quite make sense
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  #44  
Old 11.02.2011, 11:23
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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Something like this for one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12800864

Oh and my own degree thesis too.
I can't access the full article. Kindly post it up.
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  #45  
Old 11.02.2011, 11:25
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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I think it was "Lose fat and gain weight at the same time".

Losing weight and gaining muscles doesn't quite make sense

Dead right ! Sorry, my mistake

I will do 50 additional push up's this evening to punish myself
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  #46  
Old 11.02.2011, 11:27
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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You got a paper to support that? Since 85% is largely anaerobic I'm curious as to why it would increase blood saturation. Generally it is regarded that over 85% is working in muscle activation and making as many fibres fire as possible. If you take it to it's extreme and train eccentrically with 120% of 1RM it seems that you actually increase 1RM with no change in muscle cross sectional area at all. Low intensity leads to an increase in capillaries and blood flow to the muscle.

I'd be interested to see the research on blood saturation increasing muscle mass with high intensity exercise. Swelling in the muscle after heavy sessions is a different thing. Are you confusing this perhaps?
I defer to your greater knowledge, I think the thrust of my post was correct, I'm lazy though and 85% of what I can do is probably equivalent to 65% of a non lazy person lol. I think the 120% 1rm training is mostly working of the elastic properties of the muscle, and as you say completely anaerobic, rather extreme though.

I think a good course of action for anyone gym training is to find out their specific max rep. mass at the beginning of a program (1rm, 5rm and %of that) helps to take a pad a pen and a stop watch.

I personally swear by good hypertrophic exercises such as press-ups and chin ups, if you perform these with good form and lots of sets, you will be doing well, and feeling the burn, no need for a gym or a spandex clad trainer.
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Old 11.02.2011, 11:27
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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Yeah, I have a long list of excuses for not going for the past two months as well

Don't get me wrong, I still go to the gym, just not specifically to that class. Now you've made me feel all guilty, so I might go tomorrow..
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  #48  
Old 11.02.2011, 11:33
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

If you are a short distance swimmer, you are bulky. My best mate swims short distance and he is massive...
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  #49  
Old 11.02.2011, 11:35
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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If you are a short distance swimmer, you are bulky. My best mate swims short distance and he is massive...
Agreed, my best friend from college is an Olympian. He swam 50m Freestlye and at 5-7ft. he had to do some major compensation in terms of muscles.
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  #50  
Old 11.02.2011, 12:09
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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My own observation is that you can't build muscle and drop fat at the same time - unless you're in an atypical situation : ...
Please re-read this statement... (huh?)

Your body is made of muscle and fat (and other things, I know), so certain areas of your body change from muscle to fat when you are not working them. Thus, when you do work out (in whatever way you choose, there are so many ways), you build muscle back and drop the fat. It is common sense, and not atypical at all.
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  #51  
Old 11.02.2011, 12:17
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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You're in a classic conundrum.

You have a choice. You can lose fat, or you can gain muscle. You can't do both at the same time. You need a surplus of calories in order to build muscle, and you need a deficit of calories to lose weight.

That's why most serious weight lifters will go through bulking phases, where they concentrate on taking in huge amount of calories while building muscle mass (and gaining some additional fat at the same time) followed by cutting phases, where they reduce their caloric intake while maintaining the new muscle they've built (although you'll inevitably lose a little bit during a cutting cycle).

There's lots of good information here: http://www.stumptuous.com/eating-for-mass-gain

Incidentally, although the site is written by (and targetted towards) women, it is full of excellent advice for anyone interested in getting started in weight training.
Hmm! Not too sure that I can completely agree.
I started going to the gym exactly one year ago in Feb. weighing in at 210 kilos, after consequent workout (By now I just max the machines out) I am now a sylph of a man at only 176 kilos, far fitter than ever before and I have added lots of muscly lumps to boot, I did not change too much in my diet so after scratching his head and all sorts of tests the doctor at the adipostas center told me my bod had switched from burning fast energy carbohydrates to diesel, or, better said I run on body fat as fuel
Whatever, I feel good and it works for me.
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  #52  
Old 11.02.2011, 12:46
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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Please re-read this statement... (huh?)

Your body is made of muscle and fat (and other things, I know), so certain areas of your body change from muscle to fat when you are not working them. Thus, when you do work out (in whatever way you choose, there are so many ways), you build muscle back and drop the fat. It is common sense, and not atypical at all.
I think by 'muscle' and 'fat' you mean complex proteins and lipids, muscle never changes to fat, nor does fat ever change to muscle. You are deducing from visible outcomes, but it is a false deduction, through inactivity muscle is broken down and may be partially stored as fats but there is no direct link and the process is not reversible in that fashion.
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  #53  
Old 11.02.2011, 13:05
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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I think by 'muscle' and 'fat' you mean complex proteins and lipids, muscle never changes to fat, nor does fat ever change to muscle. You are deducing from visible outcomes, but it is a false deduction, through inactivity muscle is broken down and may be partially stored as fats but there is no direct link and the process is not reversible in that fashion.
I am fully aware that muscle and fat are totally different things and don't transform into each other (duh). And I am not deducing anything. My point is that by working out and eating sensibly, you can, simultaneously, drop fat and gain muscle. Fat is lost by having your delta calories be negative. Muscle is gained/re-proportioned by direct or indirect weight training (through actually lifting weights and/or various types of exercise). If you are doing both things, you will simultaneously lose fat and gain muscle. This is not atypical. That is my point.

Last edited by JLF; 11.02.2011 at 13:25. Reason: There is no retraction of what I said earlier. Clarification maybe, but no retraction...
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Old 11.02.2011, 13:19
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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I am fully aware that muscle and fat are totally different things and don't transform into each other (duh). And I am not deducing anything. My point is that by working out and eating sensibly, you can, simultaneously, drop fat and gain muscle. Fat is lost by having your delta calories be negative. Muscle is gained/re-proportioned by direct or indirect weight training (through actually lifting weights and/or various types of exercise). If you are doing both things, you will simultaneously lose fat and gain muscle. This is not atypical. That is my point.
Thank you for your retraction and clarification.
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  #55  
Old 11.02.2011, 14:37
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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Don't get me wrong, I still go to the gym, just not specifically to that class. Now you've made me feel all guilty, so I might go tomorrow..
Hm, there seems to be a market - have I mentioned that amongst other things, I'm a certified Bodypump instructor? Should maybe combine a class with next Basel curry?
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Old 11.02.2011, 14:47
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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Hmm! Not too sure that I can completely agree.
I started going to the gym exactly one year ago in Feb. weighing in at 210 kilos, after consequent workout (By now I just max the machines out) I am now a sylph of a man at only 176 kilos, far fitter than ever before and I have added lots of muscly lumps to boot, I did not change too much in my diet so after scratching his head and all sorts of tests the doctor at the adipostas center told me my bod had switched from burning fast energy carbohydrates to diesel, or, better said I run on body fat as fuel
Whatever, I feel good and it works for me.
You sure you mean kilos there? 210 kilos is roughly 3 aircraft seats wide and specially strengthened suspension on your car.
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  #57  
Old 11.02.2011, 15:11
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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You sure you mean kilos there? 210 kilos is roughly 3 aircraft seats wide and specially strengthened suspension on your car.
Yup! Down to 176 of them now
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Old 11.02.2011, 15:31
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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Yup! Down to 176 of them now
Now I understand the user name .
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Old 11.02.2011, 15:35
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Re: Fat reduction with muscle build up

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Now I understand the user name .
As in Grand Slam, the 10 ton bomb
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