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  #21  
Old 02.03.2011, 15:29
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

Yep, Colorado is pretty good at replacing those old contraptions with high speed detachable chairs (they actually come off the cable to cycle slowly around the top and bottom) Most people in the U.S dont use the bar the same way they dont ride motorcycles with helmets (image issue I guess)
I know I never used the bar until I moved here and only because other people pulled it down. I kind of miss those old lifts as they came whipping around knocking people over or spitting them out but also going so slow you could finish a book by the time you got to the top. Sucks on a powder day.
Overall I find the saftey here in CH to be o.k. But rarely do I ever see a ski patroler. My advice is to ALWAYS refuse helping children with a ski instructor unless the instructor is on the same chair, if ANYTHING happens, its YOUR fault. Period.

This has to be the CHEESIEST movie ever made.
Stuck on a ski lift.




And then the wolves came......
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  #22  
Old 02.03.2011, 17:50
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

We'll continue to accept to take kids on with us on chairlift because that is the only way kids can continue to learn. We are both extremely experienced skiers and ski course organisers, and I am a ski instructor. All ski schools that teach groups would close if people like us refused to cooperate, and skiing would become even more of an elitist and expensive sport. But I can fully understand that you are not prepared to take that risk/responsibility.
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  #23  
Old 03.03.2011, 10:44
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

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We'll continue to accept to take kids on with us on chairlift because that is the only way kids can continue to learn. We are both extremely experienced skiers and ski course organisers, and I am a ski instructor. All ski schools that teach groups would close if people like us refused to cooperate, and skiing would become even more of an elitist and expensive sport. But I can fully understand that you are not prepared to take that risk/responsibility.

I felt the same way until I had a bad experiance followed by an attempted lawsuit. I`ll tell you more when I have the time.
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Old 03.03.2011, 11:26
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

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I felt the same way until I had a bad experiance followed by an attempted lawsuit. I`ll tell you more when I have the time.
In the U.S. or in Europe?
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Old 03.03.2011, 12:50
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

I will discuss this next time I meet friends who are currently ski instructors in France and in CH. I would have thought that any incident would be covered by the Ski School's liability insurance- but it is very much worth checking, and if necessary, i will follow this up with both the ESF and CH ski schools.
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Old 04.03.2011, 12:45
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

This happened in Beaver Creek Colorado. The instructor was actually my roomate teaching a group of kids 5-8 years old. I took three kids on the lift with me and as soon as we were up one kid at the end was trying to spit on skiers below us. I asked him nicely to stop saying it wouldnt be nice if someone spit on him. BANG!! F-R-E-A-K O-U-T!! The kid started to scream as loud as he could and was thrashing around so I had to reach over the other kids and hold him to make sure he didnt fall, at this point it only got worse. He almost slid out of his jacket so I had to physically restrain him, the other kids are now crying, everyone 15 chairs in front and behind are thinking I am abusing this boy. As we get to the top I see everyone was waiting for us including ski patrol as people called 911. Every single person was looking at me like I was some kind of monster (except ski patrol as they knew me)
I basically had to go home for the day and had to change my outfit for the rest of the week as I was instantly branded as a child abuser.
Three weeks later the lawsuit came. Which did not suprise me or anyone else because it came from a family that belongs to a certain group of people from N.Y. (more on that later) anyways they didnt have a case as I was protected by the Colorado Skier Saftey Act and I was working so Vail Resorts had my back 100% and took care of it for me. Actually the lawsuit was more pointed towards them once this family heard I was an employee.
Plus the kid had a pre-existing mental disorder. The lawsuit never made it to court. Since then I say no unless I know the kids.
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  #27  
Old 04.03.2011, 13:10
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

The lawsuits.

Every year we get invaded by a group of people from N.Y. I cant say which group it is as we in the western world are not allowed to criticize them, their behavior or their actions regardless of how many innocent people they murder in pursuit of their fairy-tale promise land. The only positive thing I can say is they make awesome blood sucking lawyers. Every year they come, act like pigs, refuse to tip (you need the jaws of life to get a penny from their pocket) then they leave and a few weeks later the lawsuits come. Here are a few examples. True as I am here typing this.

- A guy tried to sue us as a lighting storm was in the area so we had to close the lifts for two hours which ruined his whole vacation. (Metal ski lifts + lighting dont really mix) We should have let him go up anyways.

- this lawsuit happens all the time. They sue the ski rental shops because the ski boots hurt their feet and of course they have some doctors note (always the doctor has a similar last name) of how their feet are permantly damaged to the point where they can never ski again.

- If it snows we get a lawsuit from someone saying the brochure only shows blue skies and fresh powder. Ruins their whole vacation.

- every year someone skies under a roped off area (normally under constrution) and skies directly into the construction site and injures themselves. (how stupid are you?)

- This happened to one of my crew members Chris. Chris was a rookie from the midwest and a begginer snowboarder, The NYer was with an instructor and was a good skier but not good at judging where the other people will be as he was hauling ass down the slope. He smashes into Chris then kicks his ass and breaks his nose. (typical aggressive behavior) The NYer was actually countered sued as downhill skiers and boarders have the right of way, plus the instructor defended Chris despite recieve a very large tip from the other guy as he tried to buy out the instuctor.

I can go on and on and on with all the dumba$$ lawsuits we get from these people every single year. But I will stop here as this post doesnt really belong in this thread, maybe to serve as a warning for your own saftey. There, I vented and now I feel better. This post should be good for a few childish groans.

Last edited by California Dreamer; 04.03.2011 at 16:03.
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  #28  
Old 04.03.2011, 14:18
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

Thank Dawg Switzerland is VERY different. As said, I don't think it could happen here- and we will continue to support the Ski Schools, families and kids best we can. Hope others will do so too. The whole system depends on it, so it is very worthwhile imho. But I can fully understand others will not wish to do so, whether because they are not sufficiently confident themselves, or because such cases as you mention put them off.
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  #29  
Old 04.03.2011, 14:30
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

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In the U.S. or in Europe?
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This happened in Beaver Creek Colorado. .......
You really have to understand that Europe really is not like the U.S.

Here we accept that accidents do happen - especially in high-risk sports such as skiing.

Generally, I think people take a bit more responsibility for their actions and also understand, and appreciate, that their children also have accidents.
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  #30  
Old 04.03.2011, 14:53
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

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Thank Dawg Switzerland is VERY different. As said, I don't think it could happen here- and we will continue to support the Ski Schools, families and kids best we can. Hope others will do so too. The whole system depends on it, so it is very worthwhile imho. But I can fully understand others will not wish to do so, whether because they are not sufficiently confident themselves, or because such cases as you mention put them off.
I am glad you do support the kids and I do as well, just not on a lift. I used to in the past but that situation changed my mind on that. What happened afterwards was of little concern for me. It was the fact that this kid almost fell to his death and if that had happened I would still have a hard time sleeping at nights. I still think about it even though I got him to the top safely.


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You really have to understand that Europe really is not like the U.S.

Here we accept that accidents do happen - especially in high-risk sports such as skiing.

Generally, I think people take a bit more responsibility for their actions and also understand, and appreciate, that their children also have accidents.

Yes, its nice that people are expected to behave as adults here unlike the U.S where its always someone else`s fault and grown up children are rewarded for their stupidity. We have a lawsuit culture in the U.S.
"I didnt know coffee was hot"
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  #31  
Old 04.03.2011, 15:07
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

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The lawsuits.

Every year we get invaded by a group of people from N.Y. I cant say which group it is as we in the western world are not allowed to criticize them, their behavior or their actions regardless of how many innocent people they murder in pursuit of their fairy-tale promise land.
[...]
This post should be good for a few childish groans.
Most probably, yes.
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  #32  
Old 04.03.2011, 15:22
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

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Yes, its nice that people are expected to behave as adults here unlike the U.S where its always someone else`s fault and grown up children are rewarded for their stupidity. We have a lawsuit culture in the U.S.
"I didnt know coffee was hot"
It's not just adults. Kids too have accidents when it really isn't the fault of anyone - especially the parents or others in charge of them*

*Of course, genuine negligence should be treated very seriously but otherwise people have to accept that there is risk in these sports.
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  #33  
Old 04.03.2011, 15:29
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

Absolutely. In the case mentioned by CaliforniaDreaming, the child's reaction was due to his mental illness/special needs. Surely this child should have been followed up closely by the Instructor + possibly an experienced helper- and never placed with a stranger.

When I was a teacher I organised 100s of trips abroad, ski trips, exchanges, and a ski club (we used to go to Swadlincote then Snowdome) - I drove our minibus all over Europe, organising work placement for our 6th Formers, etc.
And everytime, I had nightmares and soul-searching days - asking myself if I was totally mad to take the risk- and everytime came to the conclusion that I had taken every possible step to ensure nothing could possibly go wrong + that the experience would be so worthwhile for the kids, that it was a risk worth taking. Sadly, so many teachers these days will not organise such trips, exchanges or clubs- due to the fear of being sued. Very sad indeed.
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  #34  
Old 04.03.2011, 15:32
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

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Absolutely. In the case mentioned by CaliforniaDreaming, the child's reaction was due to his mental illness/special needs. Surely this child should have been followed up closely by the Instructor + possibly an experienced helper- and never placed with a stranger.

When I was a teacher I organised 100s of trips abroad, ski trips, exchanges, and a ski club (we used to go to Swadlincote then Snowdome) - I drove our minibus all over Europe, organising work placement for our 6th Formers, etc.
And everytime, I had nightmares and soul-searching days - asking myself if I was totally mad to take the risk- and everytime came to the conclusion that I had taken every possible step to ensure nothing could possibly go wrong + that the experience would be so worthwhile for the kids, that it was a risk worth taking. Sadly, so many teachers these days will not organise such trips, exchanges or clubs- due to the fear of being sued. Very sad indeed.
This says a lot about the parents of today as well.
Having said that, there are a few clueless teachers around as well
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  #35  
Old 04.03.2011, 16:09
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

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Absolutely. In the case mentioned by CaliforniaDreaming, the child's reaction was due to his mental illness/special needs. Surely this child should have been followed up closely by the Instructor + possibly an experienced helper- and never placed with a stranger..
His special needs were never mentioned to ski school. They just dropped him off like a piece of luggage. If anything V.R had a right to sue the parents for negligence. My roomate did end up buying me a few rounds with what little tip money he earned that week. He got $100 dollars for instructing (baby sitting) six kids for the whole week. He normally makes $500 a day with normal guests.
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  #36  
Old 06.03.2011, 13:13
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

I got stuck on an old chair lift on Boxing day, I ignored the remove your back pack sign!

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No system is perfect- but it is great that skilifts/chairlifts in Switzerland are always wo/manned top and bottom with quick action taken in case of a problem. A British 14 year old was strangled as his backpack got stuck coming off the chairlift in Chatel (France) the other day - and no-one was there to stop the lift and help the child. So reassuring to see lift attendants 'on the ball' and ready to act at all times here.
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Old 06.03.2011, 16:37
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

for those that can remember, les télésièges suisses des années 60 did not have pull down bars but pull round bars that came from the side, and so as they were only built for 2 people it meant you each had your own. The only ones who never used them were kids...like me...who thought it looked cool not to.

As for the US being so (overly) safety oriented with their 20 sign posts every 10 yards and what I thought at the time was a Swiss ski team on tour (it was in fact the US safety/medical teams who outnumbered skiers on slopes by 2 to 1) it was unable to prevent, just react, to the young kid I witnessed in Tahoe who fell of the chair lift in the early 90's. He was fine, a broken leg.

Skiing, and anything to do with mountains and the outdoors in general, is about the understanding of possible dangers and its prevention prevention. To plant a silly number of signpost about speed and you will be prosecuted...and not enforce use of a safety bar when at height

Did anyone catch a TSR news story at the beginig of the winter season? They were testing a new French product at a small Swiss ski resort. It was a type of magnate that is attached to the back part of the chair, the child wears a simple bib style top (rented by parent), when seated in the chairlift it creates an electronic hold for the duration of the ride and then switches off on arrival. Not a bad idea.
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  #38  
Old 06.03.2011, 19:20
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

I have to admit that until now I've had the bad habbit of not always removing my backpack in chairlifts but after reading this thread I feel like such a jerk.

But, err, any tips on how to prevent this from happening?
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  #39  
Old 06.03.2011, 19:31
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

OMG - he obviously slipped and his braces got caught - how did the story end? Frost bite?
That will 'learn' him to put the bar down and keep his pants up.
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  #40  
Old 06.03.2011, 20:09
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Re: Skilift security Switzerland versus France

I prefer Switzerland given the list of options it provides in terms of skiing compared with France
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