That is an awesome skill! I'm jealous
Guessing patience plays a large part in that!

I've heard it is still practised in the Falklands oddly enough.

Hi. Don't worry, don't take things too seriously and most importantly of all, don't be put off this forum. Whilst I cannot speak for the individual posters to whom your above replies are directed, I took their comments as being good humoured but then, of course, we all interpret things differently and I could be wrong...

That said, however, from several responses so far, it appears there's is genuine interest and support for this topic so good on you for starting this interesting thread.

Ishaka is right.
There is always the potential case of "poison pen".
You're thread has been fantastic, and having grown up in regional Queensland, seeing topics about survival in the snow is quite new to me, so I also thank you for posting this.

......... and I did find this quote funny

This is a forum, you will find the full spectrum of views on most matters. Troll like behaviour is never encouraged.

Sorry if I touched a raw nerve there...Still all that outdoorsy stuff must have toughened you up mentally, am sure you are immune to forum banter. Not one to fly off the handle at well meaning, if unintentionally ambiguous remarks...

I didn't see Bear Grylls on your list.

Ray Mears is allright but a bit boring.
That and he scares the bedjeezes out of me with his way to small and tight pants.. there is no room left for his car keys.
Granted, he is in the bush, when will he need a car but you know what i mean, men of his age should not be dressed like that.

Its great to see guys like Bear Grylls , Ray etc..going off and be wild, sometimes to the extremes but they always have backup of a medical team.

No one in his right will go and catch a deadly snake, bite his head off and cook it..the shock to ones body alone would be enough kill you.
The scene must be very depressing before i will start drinking my own wee, or eating the remains of the guy who crashed with me.

If you crash, pray and hope your phone works, or make a fire so you are noticed..

Like Timow said, you will probably forget all about it..surely we all had a go at making our own fire with 2 wooden sticks, and all we managed to get burning were the blisters on our hands.

That or hope Uncle Max crashed with you, so he can tickle some fish for dinner

However its a great thread as i can imagine if it happens here, during a hike, you will be happy to know how to retreive water or food, just hope you have the minimum with you such as a knife, firestone and a cup.

Good one OP, and lets hope no one will ever have to use any of these in real life.

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Now why did you have to mention Bear G?! As I recall, that guy is considered seriously hot by some! . Okay, okay, I'm sorry back on topic ...

I don't really care actually. I'm just saying that it would be a shame to dismiss Upthehatters' suggestion out of hand for airy-fairy "moral" reasons that likely have nothing to do with the actual people you'd likely meet at the Zurich troop.

But suit yourself.

Thanks for responses, ishaka, Dougal, upthehatter, billhardie.
As I explained just coming from a forum where such topics are more kosher coloured my response.

I'm not offended at all really, maybe I should use more smilies in my post - being new of course means I'm just coming up to speed with the forum style of banter!
No harm no foul from my end, looking back I did come off a bit serious and dour.

Oh not Bear Grylls!! His shows are entertainment and unsafe! I prefer Ray with the more measured approach than Mr Grylls who is running around much more for the camera is all...


Glad people have enjoyed so far, I might add a few basic tutorials/tips and tricks to this thread I have posted elsewhere

I looked at this site, is this an english language scout group in the Zurich area ? I mean the 'about us' section is not very clear... Is it english or german language, are members english speaking or german speaking ? Anyone here have experience with this group ?

My GF has two (early teenage) sons who have difficulty making friend as they don't speak German, an English language scouting group may be something for them....

Good thread, keep posting..

Now, why are there so many threads today with piss in them...
Must be the spring coming, or sumfin..
I don't mean to dish out unsolicited advice, but working with all sorts of multilingual teens and newly arrived ones, too, if the boys did scouting in local lingo, it would definitely broaden their chance for finding friends here (and later school options, too, should they want to study here). Kids learn so fast. There is less pressure in scouting, the kids are motivated, as opposed to obligatory schooling, so the attitude to kids who don't speak local language is way more relaxed. I'd jump at the opportunity..

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We are in a similar situation, I sent them an email asking the same languagecquestion, and if they now allow girls in.... I have a 12 year old boy and 11yr old girl that would like to take this unit over...

PM. If you wanna get the kids together btw, I know how hard it is for young teens to makes new friends...

Back to the survival bit - even 'normal' skills for 'daily living' seem to be lacking among the 'younger generation'. I like all mod cons myself, but being in charge of a ski-house which was let out to schools and other organisations for class skiing weeks, we were quite surprised to hear that one group hadn't been able to heat the hut to a reasonable temeperature at all for the week they spent there. The 'fireplace' in the kitchen normally heated the large tiled oven in the living room and, through a vent opened early evening, the large sleeping area upstairs.
When we opened the lower 'door' in the fireplace it was clear why they hadn't had a decent heating system. The 'ash compartment' was chock a block full. They hadn't realised that when one has a fire one not only has to put wood and coal into the top, but has to remove the ashes from time to time from underneath...

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I refuse to eat worms, witchity grubs, beetles or anything with more than 4 legs. Unless of course I am starving to death, but until that time, I do not feel the need to practice for the uninevitable.

Everything else is common sense.

My grandmother would have used those ashes to make lye soap .

Great for the garden too, as long as it is wood ash only.

Basic Fire Management; An overview
Fire needs three things to survive:
Oxygen, Fuel and Heat

The fire triangle as it is often called. Remove one of the sides and the fire fails. Breaking these three components down further:
Oxygen; there must be a good flow of air to your fire. Without this, fires may light but then go out after using up the immediate oxygen around the fuel.
Fuel: Fuel needs to ideally be dry and easily combustible, it comes in five principle forms. Tinder, extra fine kindling, kindling, small fuel and main fuel. It is 'fed' to the fire.
Heat: Heat is obvious, combustion.


Fuel in this picture.
On the far left we have a mix of extra fine kindling and kindling, in the middle laid out is the base where we will build the fire. Next we have small fuel, two different sizes. Main fuel is not pictured really because most times you won't need it. Or you will use big log.

This is the tinder, birch bark wrapped around a bit of cotton wool.

Right, let us let the video do the talking. Lit using a magnesium striker:
Click for video.

In the vid I gave an example of how to blow oxygen into the fire. A lot of people get this wrong, the trick is a long steady strong exhaling. Nothing half hearted!
That is the traditional way to build a fire, vaguely tipi esque. Add wood as you go until you have a good workable sized blaze. Something like this


There is another way I like to build fires. This one works well if you need to dry out wood. You build a box around the kindling. This helps guarantee good airflow to the blaze as well as helping to dry wood out as it burns.

Side on view, the tinder is again birch and the kindling is dried pine. Great kindling if you can find it.
Top down view.


Of course one should always strive for the one match fire everytime you light. This was a success in that regard.
Click for video

I like boxfires. There is an advantage, if you can get it right, to add dry kindling at different levels to help the blaze.

That above method, it all looks nice and dry and cozy...

What would you do in Switzerland...?

What is fun is making a fire in a Föhn storm, when the biggest problem is to make sure you don't set the whole mountain alight.

Haha I've yet to find a way to burn snow.
These are from Swiss winter.
Here I am trying to cook my wet trousers - a highly advanced technique!



I recommend bike inner tube as a good "bring your own tinder".

Battoning and splitting wood also exposes the dry insides allowing you to get a fire in even the nastiest conditions.

Interesting... Is there not a naked flame / fire ban during bushfire conditions ?