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  #21  
Old 27.03.2011, 20:05
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Re: Bike training: Tabata protocol, anyone?

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Maybe the video is out of context, but if you just look at the video out of context it can lead to the belief that just doing this will make you fit for bike season. I'm sure Jeff is more aware than anyone that intervals are a complement and not a replacement for endurance training.
Thanks for sharing TT & hi to my EF friends (as it's been a while)!

Indeed, things taken out of context take on a life of their own. The video shows an example of a fun and effective workout that I've found to improve my cycling fitness. I use elements of & similar to it with my clients and enjoy seeing their fitness improve and the balance in their lives at the level they seek. I also enjoy seeing them have a bit of fun while taking on a good challenge. Just like Eire said, "it's hard to maintain motivation if it's not fun."

Particularly during the winter season, the video offers some ideas for alternatives to traditional turbo trainer sessions, spin classes or laying off the bike completely. It never says nor would I intend to imply that one should repeat it as their sole training workout for cycling or more broadly that people should only do 10-minute HIIT sessions when training for endurance sport.

Integrated wisely into a training program though, HIIT like Tabata can be very effective in boosting both aerobic and anaerobic capacity and can enable performance (and enjoyment) in endurance sport. Perhaps there's no disagreement on this. The challenge is in getting the recipe right for the entire training program and in knowing when and how much HIIT to employ, how much low intensity, long duration work is needed at a minimum to prepare an athlete for "going long" and how best to incorporate rest into a program. With a smart mix of the above with functional strength and conditioning work I firmly believe that it's possible to perform in endurance sport with far less "junk kilometers" or junk time than many amateur athletes spend in their programs. This is especially important for the many who don't have large blocks of training time available (100%+ work schedule, high-travel jobs, parents, poor weather or high traffic areas, etc.) yet try to log a certain number of training hours per week with few of them planned and executed with a purpose. I'll reply later to share some personal and client experience on this point.

What I would like to stress now though is that there are many variables in designing an effective training program -- a one-size-fits-all approach is not the way to go, neither is simply duplicating the program of recent race winners and then expecting the same result. It's all about using quality ingredients and then finding the right recipe for each athlete. That's why I would recommend that athletes start with an open mind and then seek guidance from multiple sources, work with a coach, coaches or advisers that they can relate to and trust and finally put the guidance to the test in the field to see what ultimately works for them. Then they can either thank their coach and advisers for their success or fire them if the approach isn't effective.

Cheers,
Jeff
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  #22  
Old 28.03.2011, 02:11
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Re: Bike training: Tabata protocol, anyone?

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Sorry I havent really readall the other posts before mine, except the first regarding tabata. I used to go to the gym 4 times a week, and each time for almost 2 hours. 1 hour going through me weight training, and about 45 minutes to an hour cardio. At first the results were great, but long term, it just ended up feeling like such a great time commitment on workout days, that I eventually could not get my ass to the gym.
that's exactly what's been happening to me at the moment.

You said that the 4 -5 times a week 20 min. tabata replaced the previous training, you don't need any additional cardio exercises to substitute the 5 hours cardio a week?

Is this training with free weights or could this type of training also be done on normal weight machines?
(I am female so don't do free weights.)

Merci.
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  #23  
Old 30.03.2011, 13:40
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Re: Bike training: Tabata protocol, anyone?

[QUOTE

(I am female so don't do free weights.)

[/QUOTE]

Females can use free weights too, so long as your form is good you will get better results from them.

Other than that i think it's worth emphasising the importance of developing super efficiency at whatever your doing. I know Eire touched on it earlier but I think it's worth red flagging so that it's part of the mix of what you do. many people get so caught up in training plans and heart rates that it can be neglected. I race in a variety of sports and am frequently lacking in comparable fitness to those directly around me but always strive to relax the muscles not needed and efficiently work the others and it makes a really large difference, it's not just icing on the cake and is particularly relevant for MTB.

Obviously it's not just about racing but being economic with your energy expenditure will result in more fun from your rides.

Secondly, I agree with Jeff, 1 size doesn't fit all. Working out your own strengths and needs really helps to maximise training time. For example; I have a natural and trained abundance of endurance but lack speed and rarely dedicate enough time to one sport at a time. Knowing that, last year I did a little training for my first cycling event (Lac leman 180km) deciding at the outset that despite the fact that I had never cycled that kind of distance I'd be ok covering the distance but MOST needed to get my pedaling speed up so that I could stay with groups and not be left behind.

Here's an extract from my biking log (this obviously won't work for everyone but in combination with the tiny bit of training i did for a later in the year ride, reinforced my believe that quality over quantity is as important as all those world famous coaches say it is)

Focus – increase cadence, smooth pedal stroke, being efficient, i.e. relaxed shoulders, arms etc

Prior to May been skiing - alot!
May 11 13km 33mins 24.2k/h – flat, recovering from ½ marathon (9th may)
May 12 37.5km 1hr38 23k/hr 129bpm – rolling terrain Bois d’Amont
May 17 81km 3hrs 26.5k/h – downhill or flat, Home - border near Thonon & back to Nyon, 2 brief stops
May 19 56km 2hr21 average spd between 23.5 -25 – head wind one way, fairly flat, around le Brassus, Lac du joux. Speed more consistent than previous efforts
May 21 50km?(didn’t record actual distance) 3hrs approx. – Hilly, home-Arzier-Bassins- Marchairuz rd (national route 7)-le Brassus – home
May 22 70km 2hr27 28.5k/h – downhill then flat, Home – Vevey
May 23 49km 2hr – fairly flat, Home – Vallorbe, bit of a headwind
May 24 28km 1hr 26k/hr – flat, easy recovery ride, Le Brassus- le Pont & back round lake
May 25 MTB 24km 13.1k/h1hr 50, local mostly easy trails
May 30 Lac leman ride – 180km 5hr46 31k/h v. wet conditions


More time on a bike would have reduced my time but perhaps not massively. I think i would have needed to have doubled my bike time to have go a 15-30 min reduction.

Happy to post what i did for the Gruyere ride as that was a more challenging proposition but still illustartes the same point.
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  #24  
Old 30.03.2011, 16:05
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Re: Bike training: Tabata protocol, anyone?

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I'm trying to maximise my result vs. time invested in training in order to get more pleasure per mile (or per minute) when I'm actually riding (MTB)

Anyways - some folks swear by the Tabata method, according to others it doesn't work as well for cycling, blah, blah (usual kind of Mac vs PC flame war).

Anyone using it - and for which sport? Is it working for you?

Thank you all.....
If you send me your mail address in a PM I have a great Cardio HIIT program you can have.
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  #25  
Old 31.03.2011, 09:31
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Re: Bike training: Tabata protocol, anyone?

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More time on a bike would have reduced my time but perhaps not massively. I think i would have needed to have doubled my bike time to have go a 15-30 min reduction.
I tend to disagree.

I would say that spending your time differently on your bike would most likely have reduced you time significantly.

I know a guy who have been running for many years - more and more kilometres season by season without improving his pace.

When he started doing HIIT he cut 30 seconds of his pace (min./km.) in one season only.

HIIT works.
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  #26  
Old 31.03.2011, 12:45
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Re: Bike training: Tabata protocol, anyone?

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I tend to disagree.

I would say that spending your time differently on your bike would most likely have reduced you time significantly.

I know a guy who have been running for many years - more and more kilometres season by season without improving his pace.

When he started doing HIIT he cut 30 seconds of his pace (min./km.) in one season only.

HIIT works.
Isn't that what everyone else in this thread has been saying too, or have I lost the plot

Last edited by Niranjan; 31.03.2011 at 13:09. Reason: English
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  #27  
Old 31.03.2011, 15:21
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Re: Bike training: Tabata protocol, anyone?

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[QUOTE

(I am female so don't do free weights.)


Prior to May been skiing - alot!
May 11 13km 33mins 24.2k/h – flat, recovering from ½ marathon (9th may)
May 12 37.5km 1hr38 23k/hr 129bpm – rolling terrain Bois d’Amont
May 17 81km 3hrs 26.5k/h – downhill or flat, Home - border near Thonon & back to Nyon, 2 brief stops
May 19 56km 2hr21 average spd between 23.5 -25 – head wind one way, fairly flat, around le Brassus, Lac du joux. Speed more consistent than previous efforts
May 21 50km?(didn’t record actual distance) 3hrs approx. – Hilly, home-Arzier-Bassins- Marchairuz rd (national route 7)-le Brassus – home
May 22 70km 2hr27 28.5k/h – downhill then flat, Home – Vevey
May 23 49km 2hr – fairly flat, Home – Vallorbe, bit of a headwind
May 24 28km 1hr 26k/hr – flat, easy recovery ride, Le Brassus- le Pont & back round lake
May 25 MTB 24km 13.1k/h1hr 50, local mostly easy trails
May 30 Lac leman ride – 180km 5hr46 31k/h v. wet conditions


More time on a bike would have reduced my time but perhaps not massively. I think i would have needed to have doubled my bike time to have go a 15-30 min reduction.

Happy to post what i did for the Gruyere ride as that was a more challenging proposition but still illustartes the same point.

Kate's couch to 180 k plan in 3 short weeks. Now, I know the secrets.
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  #28  
Old 31.03.2011, 15:45
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Re: Bike training: Tabata protocol, anyone?

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Isn't that what everyone else in this thread has been saying too, or have I lost the plot
I know TT but the statement from the young lady was something like "more time on the bike" which I challenge by saying "different time on the bike".

And....taking the order of the different posts into concideration I think it makes perfect sense, to reply in a post just AFTER the post of all those kilometres were mentioned.....yeah?

Oh....maybe you read the thread backwards...? Or shuffle...?
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  #29  
Old 31.03.2011, 15:48
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Re: Bike training: Tabata protocol, anyone?

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Kate's couch to 180 k plan in 3 short weeks. Now, I know the secrets.
Yep...super. I salute the effort.

I have been doing 150-200 km. per week since August and started to add HIIT about 6 weeks ago.....now I feel the difference.
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