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Old 06.06.2011, 10:54
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Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

I have been following the Couch to 5k running programme & up to now it has gone really well. Now that I can can now run non-stop for over 20mins I am running into ankle problems. My left ankle rolls in the way, it is not classic over-pronation as I do not have flat feet I have normal arches, it is causing me a fair bit of pain on the outside of my foot from the bony part of the ankle downwards so much so that my run this morning was more of a walk. I have googled to try and find out what to do & it seems that I should get a gait analysis done & probably orthotics to help correct the roll.

Has anyone had this done & if so does it help? Who in Switzerland do you see about this? Is it a physio or someone else? Is this something I can run through or should I stop running until it is sorted? Since I have become aware of the problem I have realised that I also roll in when I walk so it is not just when running this happens.
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Old 06.06.2011, 11:12
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

You are asking this question on here? Where there are a number of minimalist shoe runners?

I overpronate - in running shoes - I don't in Vibrams

Where abouts on the ankle? Inside/outside? Back front? What trainers are you running in?
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Old 06.06.2011, 11:19
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

I used to work in a running shop back in the UK, and the good news is you're not alone - 80% of people are "over-pronators" to one degree or another. As a result, most running shoes on the market are targetted towards helping to reduce the effects.

It's not so much to do with having flat feet, it's more that as your heel strikes the ground, the arch collapses more easily which is what causes the inward roll. So, you need some form of arch support to prevent it collapsing.

This could just be a pair of running shoes that have the right sort of arch support to them. Usually the arch support is visible as a grey-ish block in the middle of the inside of the mid-sole (like the ones in this pic)

If you already have shoes that are designed to correct for this, then yeah it might be worth a visit to a podiatrist who will measure your gait and build a custom made orthotic insole to suit your specific running style. In CH I'd expect this to be expensive (in the UK about 10 years ago it ran to about £300 per pair so it'll probably be a decent multiple of that). If you do get an orthotic, it's very important to make sure any running shoes you buy are neutral e.g. no arch support from the shoe - otherwise they will affect what the orthotic does.

Either way, once you have your solution, build back up gradually and don't rush back to "full mileage" straight away.

Hope it works out
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Old 06.06.2011, 12:16
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

There are also quite a lot of other runners too & I am interested in answers from both camps. I have read the Vibrams thread with interest due gait issues I have had in the past (& most probably now too given this situation).

As I said in my post the pain is on the outside of my ankle/foot. The trainers I am running in are Reebok Run Tones, I use these not for any "toning" effect but because of previous hip problems they are the only shoe I have found that does not cause me hip pain when I run though it is entirely possible that while good for my hip they are no good for my ankle.

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You are asking this question on here? Where there are a number of minimalist shoe runners?

I overpronate - in running shoes - I don't in Vibrams

Where abouts on the ankle? Inside/outside? Back front? What trainers are you running in?
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Old 06.06.2011, 12:21
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

Are pronation problems normally bilateral? I only have it on one side as far as I know, the side I had hip surgery on.

Flippin' heck was not expecting it to be so expensive for the Orthotics! Maybe I shall take a trip to a sports shoe shop to get my shoes checked to make sure they are the right ones for me before I go any further. Thanks.

Is it possible to build up ankle strength to help with this? There are no big muscles there to train so how can you get stronger ankles?

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I used to work in a running shop back in the UK, and the good news is you're not alone - 80% of people are "over-pronators" to one degree or another. As a result, most running shoes on the market are targetted towards helping to reduce the effects.

It's not so much to do with having flat feet, it's more that as your heel strikes the ground, the arch collapses more easily which is what causes the inward roll. So, you need some form of arch support to prevent it collapsing.

This could just be a pair of running shoes that have the right sort of arch support to them. Usually the arch support is visible as a grey-ish block in the middle of the inside of the mid-sole (like the ones in this pic)

If you already have shoes that are designed to correct for this, then yeah it might be worth a visit to a podiatrist who will measure your gait and build a custom made orthotic insole to suit your specific running style. In CH I'd expect this to be expensive (in the UK about 10 years ago it ran to about £300 per pair so it'll probably be a decent multiple of that). If you do get an orthotic, it's very important to make sure any running shoes you buy are neutral e.g. no arch support from the shoe - otherwise they will affect what the orthotic does.

Either way, once you have your solution, build back up gradually and don't rush back to "full mileage" straight away.

Hope it works out
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Old 06.06.2011, 12:59
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

Try barefoot running as much as possible. I know many people (including myself) have been able to overcome the problems associated with overpronation.
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:02
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

I can't due to the problem with my hip as I need to make sure it is cushioned from impact as much as possible. I am defying my surgeon by even attempting to run as he told me I would never manage it but when you get the urge to run you just got to try it .

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Try barefoot running as much as possible. I know many people (including myself) have been able to overcome the problems associated with overpronation.
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:14
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

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I can't due to the problem with my hip as I need to make sure it is cushioned from impact as much as possible.
Hmmm - so the soft cushioning of your foot isn't cushioning enough??? You add cushioning - and then you need structuring (in either the trainer or by orthotics) - and you think that is better for your hip??

Can you walk round on the soft part of your foot?
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:15
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

I dont run however I do have a lot of problems with my hips knees and ankles due to my feet. I went to the doctor and she refered me to the ORTHO-TEAM place in basel. I went got checked, full measurments taken, pressure points ect and got custom made insoles and they cost me 500CHF for the pair. hope this helps a little.
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:17
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

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Are pronation problems normally bilateral? I only have it on one side as far as I know, the side I had hip surgery on.

Flippin' heck was not expecting it to be so expensive for the Orthotics! Maybe I shall take a trip to a sports shoe shop to get my shoes checked to make sure they are the right ones for me before I go any further. Thanks.

Is it possible to build up ankle strength to help with this? There are no big muscles there to train so how can you get stronger ankles?
Think you've hit the nail on the head - usually biomechanics are bilateral but operations anywhere on the "chain" (e.g. ankle, knee, hip) can make a difference. You will probably find that the other side is compensating to some degree too (e.g you might find the other leg gets fatigued faster than the other?)

Yeah orthotics are pricey - that said they are "for life not just for christmas" so if you're a "serious" runner then they can be a wise investment, but for most hobby runners a good pair of shoes can make all the difference.

I'm actually checking out how to strengthen ankles at the moment (OH twisted her ankle at training yesterday, again) - if I find anything of interest, I'll post it back here
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:20
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

To be honest I have no idea what is best at this point hence all the questions & trying to learn. If I walk for any length of time in any shoe apart from my Reeboks I get hip pain. Walking barefoot for a length of time is not something I have done for a long time, probably since I learned to walk again a few years ago. Like I said I was told I would never run again but I have an urge to do so so trying to figure it all out.

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Hmmm - so the soft cushioning of your foot isn't cushioning enough??? You add cushioning - and then you need structuring (in either the trainer or by orthotics) - and you think that is better for your hip??

Can you walk round on the soft part of your foot?
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:29
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

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To be honest I have no idea what is best at this point hence all the questions & trying to learn. If I walk for any length of time in any shoe apart from my Reeboks I get hip pain. Walking barefoot for a length of time is not something I have done for a long time, probably since I learned to walk again a few years ago. Like I said I was told I would never run again but I have an urge to do so so trying to figure it all out.
I get a lot of pain when walking and the more i walk the worse it gets and then it starts traveling up my back. I found that with the insoles I stand straighter and I can walk for longer. I still get pain but it is a bit better than before. I have to wear mine all the time which is a bit of a pain as i cant really wear anything other than trainers because if them but if it helps the pain just a bit it is worth it.
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:29
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

If you have the extra health insurance you can claim for the correction.

Go to an Orthopaedic doctor and ask for a prescription for a set of tailor made shoe inserts (Supports) from a medical shoe maker.
They cost around CHF 400 and are made to exactly fit your feet profile.

Look for Orthopädie-Schuhtechnik in www.local.ch OR www.directories.ch

http://yellow.local.ch/en/q/Orthop%C....html?rid=7Qtj
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:32
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

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Is it possible to build up ankle strength to help with this? There are no big muscles there to train so how can you get stronger ankles?
I have a similar problem and I've been doing Pilates with equipment to build up lower leg and ankle strength.
Pilates is great to align your body, eg. your over pronation may due to a mis-aligned spine, hip, and will help to correct it.
(for me it is the best sport so far i've tried to build up muscle strength, and as bonus it will tone your entire body and you get amazing abs.)

Pilates equipment training


In the meantime, as you probably don't want to give up running until your ankle problem is sorted, get some proper insoles. (i know the vibram team is going to boo now...), ask your gp for a referral to a good orthopaedist so he can tailor made some insoles and analyse your gait.
When you have the insoles, go to a specialist running shop, where they let you try out shoes and filming you on a threadmill to find the best model for you.


And btw, congrats for doing the 'couch to 5k programme'.
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:36
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

I am a physical therapist (or I was a physical therapist, now an at-home mom).

From what you've described, I would guess that your foot/ankle pain is coming from some weakness in the hip on which you had surgery.

In addition to buying running shoes that are properly fitted to your feet, I would do some exercises to strengthen the muscles of your hip.

Before spending lots of money on the specially made inserts, I would try this!
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:40
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

Check out this article. These exercises are great. You just need a resistive band to do them.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/...3410-0,00.html
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:41
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

Thanks Julie, I do this in addition to the running. I stepped up the intensity of the strength exercises for my hip over the last Winter in preperation for starting to run.

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In addition to buying running shoes that are properly fitted to your feet, I would do some exercises to strengthen the muscles of your hip.
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Old 06.06.2011, 13:57
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

I'm kind of known to be in the barefoot community on this one, so any arch support is a "no no" in my books, you're weakening the arch as well as the calves and therefore your whole body positioning if you bulk up with foam and other padding.

Don't be scared of trying the barefoot approach, you don't have to wear Vibrams, there are other minimalist brands out there, even sandals would do the job. Keep it short and sweet to start off with and go for a mid-foot landing, don't heel strike. Check out YouTube forefoot and barefoot running techniques and you'll see that healthy runners aren't freaks, they just listen to good advice that pays off. Good luck.

I speak as I come back from a 10km run in Inov8 shoes, forefoot technique all the way. No aches or pains. I only adapted to the new style in February of this year. It's not rocket science, you just need time to develop the style and adapt accordingly.
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Old 06.06.2011, 15:06
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

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I have been following the Couch to 5k running programme & up to now it has gone really well. Now that I can can now run non-stop for over 20mins I am running into ankle problems. My left ankle rolls in the way, it is not classic over-pronation as I do not have flat feet I have normal arches, it is causing me a fair bit of pain on the outside of my foot from the bony part of the ankle downwards so much so that my run this morning was more of a walk. I have googled to try and find out what to do & it seems that I should get a gait analysis done & probably orthotics to help correct the roll.

Has anyone had this done & if so does it help? Who in Switzerland do you see about this? Is it a physio or someone else? Is this something I can run through or should I stop running until it is sorted? Since I have become aware of the problem I have realised that I also roll in when I walk so it is not just when running this happens.
Just run normally, I see the odd person with a really weird run, I think to myself, Why are they doing that? Isn't running hard wired in humans, we don't even need to learn it, maybe we need to reintroduce lions, that would sort things out.
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Old 06.06.2011, 15:27
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Re: Running & "Over-Pronation" Advice needed

That is what I have been doing & now I have pain that stops me from running. While your suggestion does on the face of it make sense I already had to learn to walk again as an adult, second time around these things are not so naturally learned. It took a hell of a lot of effort & pain to get me on 2 feet again.

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Just run normally, I see the odd person with a really weird run, I think to myself, Why are they doing that? Isn't running hard wired in humans, we don't even need to learn it, maybe we need to reintroduce lions, that would sort things out.
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