This is true, I second this.

Although everyone might have their own little thing that works for them, I did 30min of cardio every day, walked a couple of kms to work and back, and after the few innitial weeks, body adapted and it wasn't really having much impact. For some reason. The minute I added own body weight resistance, a few mins, even 10-15mins were enough, I could feel the hunger/metabolism changing, I used to be super hungry after cardio, but body weight training somehow works with the metabolism system differently. Using food better, no cravings, really. As dawiz wrote.

I also started alternating cardio on eliptical and cardio running outside, or walking on other days, even short stints had effect. It was much more efficient, once one gets out of the rut.

It's amazing how our body adapts, more so older we get, it's harder to push it out of the comfort zone (which is needed, but not by long distance and lengthy painful cardios, me thinks).

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Basic application of common sense for exercising

1. Calories out (through exercise) > calories in = weight loss , HOWEVER ensure deficit isn't too extreme for too long, especially without expert supervision, or body will go into survival mode and will keep hold of fat/weight as long as it can

2. The best workout is... the one you are not doing. Mix up your training (intensity, muscle groups etc) regulalry so you body doesnt adapt as stated before and benefits decrease. If you have any goal activities (I saw hiking?) include these regulalry as well, and mix up what you do around them.

3. Muscle is harder to maintain/does burn more calories to maintain than fat (otehrwise we'd all muscle up on our time away from the gym, not soften up), so high muscle mass will be beneficial, and yes, high impact exercise will hurt your joints, especially if one is carrying more weight than average.

4. Do things you enjoy exercise wise - it will be more bearable

I have to say that I think there is far too much overcomplication here. And I'm saying that as a research scientist. I don't mind ingurgitating complicated stuff, I just don't think it is necessary in this case. Personal trainers have to make it sound complicated to earn their salary.

Just do regular cardio at the pace that feels best to you. The more you do, and the faster you go, the more weight you'll lose. With that straightforward recipe, I've had a BMI of 21 or less for the last 35 years .

While I commend you on your ability to keep your BMI low and keep yourself motivated for training, I have doubts as to your muscle mass with a BMI of 21 or less. I am sure this suits you fine, but if the OP wants to retain muscle mass, doing massive cardio work is normally not the way to go about it.
Retaining muscle mass, at the same time as dropping a lot of weight is usually quite hard.

Personally I would recommend using light interval cardio training the first couple weeks leading towards high intensity cardio training with low rep weight training on the side.
That's just me though..
Also make sure to still eat regularly, and don't cut too hard on the calories, but try and change your meals into more complex carbohydrates, more proteins and more natural fat.

Most important though, is to find something that you like to do, as it will be much easier to stay motivated, if you enjoy your training.

Good luck.

Ok, so here's my plan:
Twice a week I do a weights programme in the form of circle training, this is followed by a shorter cardio element of half an hour.

Four times a week I'll be doing cardio, with three longer sessions lasting one hour, again with a heart rate below 140 and one shorter session that is intervals (I'm trying to get jogging again using the couch to 5k plan, so that is forcibly intervals).

Food-wise it's basically - avoid processed food and sugar, get enough good protein and moderate complex carbohydrates, fill up on veg, moderate amounts of fruit, drink loads of water and avoid eating too late.

Aaaand - I'm also tracking my sleep, because I feel that influences how hungry I am.

I remember reading a study from the ETH sports department, which said that interval training is ideal for fat loss due to the after-burn effect it creates. So do you reckon I should follow up the weight training with a short session of intervals or has the weight training in circle format (sixty seconds of maximum effort, thirty seconds to change machine) got that covered?

I've already got about 34 kg of muscle mass, so even if I lost a little bit, it wouldn't be the end of the world. But it would be nice to keep the stuff as it means the occasional meal out with my mates won't instantly throw me back.

Thanks for all the useful responses - although I am still confused but it's good to hear what has worked for others. I really hope I can finally get back to being fit and as healthy as is possible for the bundle of diseases that is me.

Are you doing too much too soon? That sounds quite a gruelling schedule and may be too much.

I'm not trying to discourage you but if you have a schedule that is too demanding then you won't stick to it.

Goo luck though!

Well done Kittster and good luck. I reckon it helps if you can have a mate do it too, as that way you motivate each other.

One point I would like to make is that in this type of thread, of course everyone has the right to write their own opinion, but it would be very helpful if those with professional experience could mention that. It helps for those that are looking for the right answer.
Thanks

Kittster's approach is correct, I think that just getting on with it and not worrying too much about muscle mass loss is the best strategy. Initially, the "burn the fat, feed the muscle" technique is more trouble than it's worth, and can even be a roadblock to people who are overweight and subconsciously still on the fence about putting in the effort to losing weight. It can be another discouraging excuse for it being "too complicated". Cardio and HIIT (along with an improved diet) are what you should focus on in the initial stages of weight loss. I found that once I started seeing results and feeling better, I naturally started understanding my body and wanting to challenge it more through muscle exercises.

Well, I have a few targets set and I know I can reach them if I stick to this. I accept that maybe one of those long cardio sessions will fall by the wayside and I won't beat myself up about it. Or I can do something different instead of one of those long sessions, like go on a bike ride or go swimming. Keep it interesting.

Thing is:

• I'm sick of being unfit and fat AND even more sick of complaining about it
• The gym is two minute's bike ride from my place / on my way home from work / right next to where all my university courses take place, so all I have to do is have my gym bag with me
• I enjoy exercise
• Two of my mates go to the same gym, so we can motivate each other
• I'm really hell-bent on achieving those goals
• I've done something like this before and managed to stick to it for six months, only reason I stopped was because I no longer had access to the gym due to moving

Of course I will be keeping a close eye on my lupus symptoms, this is not about working out no matter what.

He is wrong.

Weights will help, and give some variety, but if you want to lose fat you need to have a balanced diet and do lots of cardio.

Also make sure the cardio is high enough intensity, and don't get fooled by the fat burning zone rubbish. I'd go for 160+ hr rather than 140 (unless there is a medical reason to keep it low) and also do some high intensity intervals and shorter sessions as well.

low intensity might burn a high % fat, but it's misleading...
40% of 800-1000 cals an hour is a lot is more than 60% of 300-400 cals an hour...

I did 2-3 hours a day of cardio 6 days a week for many years to keep at lightweight when I was competing as a rower, and I didn't reduce my muscle mass, I increased it, and the lower body fat made me look more muscular too.

If cardio reduced muscle mass it would have made it easier to make weight but I found that the opposite was true as I was putting muscle on (I did no weights, just cardio and core) and it got harder to make lightweight, to start with I needed to get down to 10% body fat to make weight, but eventually by the time I retired I needed to get to 5%.

btw, I'm not suggesting you do that much cardio (unless you want to) but you should be doing 3 or 4 cardio sessions a week and build up the intensity and time as you get fitter. Add in some weights if you want to. Which is pretty much what your plan is

What you're suggesting looks good to me... keep track of your calories too.

Good Luck

To be fair, cran, rowing is a pretty muscle-intensive exercise. It's technically cardio, I guess, but only barely. That's why it's considered to be the perfect exercise by many. I do 45 min of rowing machine once or twice per week for variety's sake, and I'm not sure I could do any more. HIIT on an exercise bike is gravy compared to it.

I agree it's all about intensity. My HIIT bike sessions heart-rate is usually between 150-170 (if the machine is correct) and I don't find it particularly excessive.

depends on your age no?

True, it does use a lot of muscles, but cycling and climbers and treadmills are also quite intense if you push hard.

Now I do mostly cycling, but I don't seem to lose muscle from my arms.

Maybe the OP should use the rowing maching

I totally think every fitness program should bestrictly individual and based on the result you want to achieve. The cardio isthe best to lose weight ( fat) . I personally try to make 30 to 60 min cardioper day. My aim lose weight. I am also trying to eat only fruit and vegetables,nuts and water , water and green tee. Its hard as the results are coming not sofast I want , but I am not giving up.

I used togo 5 days in the gym before that. I also started with 30 min cardio before Istart with the weights and then another 30 min at the end of the training. Iwas just very slimmm.

I havenever heard that you should not do any cardio .....so weird

depends on your resting and maximum heart rates (which is loosely related to age, it will decrease as you get older)

e.g

if your resting heart rate is 50 and max 200 then 80% MHR would be
50 + (0.80 * (200 - 50)) = 170

if your resting heart rate is 60 and max 180 then 80% MHR would be
60 + (0.80 * (180 - 60)) = 156

A rough rule of thumb is that you'll burn 1 cal per hour per kg of weight per kmh

IE if you weigh 80kg - run for 40mins at 10kmh you'll burn approximately - 80 * 40/60 * 10 = 533 calories.

Slower you burn less - faster you burn more.

You have to put in some serious cardio to get your body to "eat" its own muscle. That doesn't even happen on a marathon!

I don't agree with this view, and I have made this point elsewhere earlier. The problem today is lots of dodgy "professionals". You don't have to look very far, look at the advice given to the OP by a professional in real life and it is so dodgy, you can well imagine the amount of bull that can be posted by internet professionals posting anonymously

Today, it doesn't take much to become a professional sports therapist, coach, or masseur (I have seen people with very questionable IQs going on to become successful coaches with a large follower base; mostly they are people who failed to be successful as competitive athletes and didn't do too well in mainstream jobs either).

On topic, of all the posts above, I agree the most with Frankzappa, we are over-complicating what is a very simple matter where some common sense and ability to listen to one's own body is all that is required.

Anyway, go on, this is a weekly cycle, there will be one more identical fat-loss thread next week, and we can go over it all over again. EF rocks

I thought it was seasonal

There are more at the beginning of January, after the excesses of Christmas and then again just before the summer when people realise they're not going to look quite as they imagined on holiday.

Exercise and healthy living should be for life - and should, like life itself, be fun.

7am at the track doing running drills

It was actually superb fun - the sun inched its way over the horizon bathing the track in a warm glow. The drills were fun, hard and vaguely competitive. And we did only 4 of them! I have a whole library of funky things to get the body working more efficiently!