Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Activities > Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04.09.2011, 20:38
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Quote:
View Post
you SHOULD do cardio, but do short and VERY intense, like HIT, max 20 minutes...stay away from LOOOONG "cardio" sessions...
This is true, I second this.

Although everyone might have their own little thing that works for them, I did 30min of cardio every day, walked a couple of kms to work and back, and after the few innitial weeks, body adapted and it wasn't really having much impact. For some reason. The minute I added own body weight resistance, a few mins, even 10-15mins were enough, I could feel the hunger/metabolism changing, I used to be super hungry after cardio, but body weight training somehow works with the metabolism system differently. Using food better, no cravings, really. As dawiz wrote.

I also started alternating cardio on eliptical and cardio running outside, or walking on other days, even short stints had effect. It was much more efficient, once one gets out of the rut.

It's amazing how our body adapts, more so older we get, it's harder to push it out of the comfort zone (which is needed, but not by long distance and lengthy painful cardios, me thinks).
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 05.09.2011, 12:53
ngoamlb's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Adliswil
Posts: 21
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
ngoamlb has no particular reputation at present
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Basic application of common sense for exercising

1. Calories out (through exercise) > calories in = weight loss , HOWEVER ensure deficit isn't too extreme for too long, especially without expert supervision, or body will go into survival mode and will keep hold of fat/weight as long as it can

2. The best workout is... the one you are not doing. Mix up your training (intensity, muscle groups etc) regulalry so you body doesnt adapt as stated before and benefits decrease. If you have any goal activities (I saw hiking?) include these regulalry as well, and mix up what you do around them.

3. Muscle is harder to maintain/does burn more calories to maintain than fat (otehrwise we'd all muscle up on our time away from the gym, not soften up), so high muscle mass will be beneficial, and yes, high impact exercise will hurt your joints, especially if one is carrying more weight than average.

4. Do things you enjoy exercise wise - it will be more bearable
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank ngoamlb for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 05.09.2011, 23:10
FrankZappa's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: France, near Geneva
Posts: 865
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,777 Times in 728 Posts
FrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

I have to say that I think there is far too much overcomplication here. And I'm saying that as a research scientist. I don't mind ingurgitating complicated stuff, I just don't think it is necessary in this case. Personal trainers have to make it sound complicated to earn their salary.

Just do regular cardio at the pace that feels best to you. The more you do, and the faster you go, the more weight you'll lose. With that straightforward recipe, I've had a BMI of 21 or less for the last 35 years .
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank FrankZappa for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 05.09.2011, 23:32
CLV's Avatar
CLV CLV is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Luzern
Posts: 83
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 47 Times in 30 Posts
CLV has earned some respectCLV has earned some respect
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Quote:
View Post
I have to say that I think there is far too much overcomplication here. And I'm saying that as a research scientist. I don't mind ingurgitating complicated stuff, I just don't think it is necessary in this case. Personal trainers have to make it sound complicated to earn their salary.

Just do regular cardio at the pace that feels best to you. The more you do, and the faster you go, the more weight you'll lose. With that straightforward recipe, I've had a BMI of 21 or less for the last 35 years .
While I commend you on your ability to keep your BMI low and keep yourself motivated for training, I have doubts as to your muscle mass with a BMI of 21 or less. I am sure this suits you fine, but if the OP wants to retain muscle mass, doing massive cardio work is normally not the way to go about it.
Retaining muscle mass, at the same time as dropping a lot of weight is usually quite hard.

Personally I would recommend using light interval cardio training the first couple weeks leading towards high intensity cardio training with low rep weight training on the side.
That's just me though..
Also make sure to still eat regularly, and don't cut too hard on the calories, but try and change your meals into more complex carbohydrates, more proteins and more natural fat.

Most important though, is to find something that you like to do, as it will be much easier to stay motivated, if you enjoy your training.

Good luck.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank CLV for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 06.09.2011, 09:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,940
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,599 Times in 2,882 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Ok, so here's my plan:
Twice a week I do a weights programme in the form of circle training, this is followed by a shorter cardio element of half an hour.

Four times a week I'll be doing cardio, with three longer sessions lasting one hour, again with a heart rate below 140 and one shorter session that is intervals (I'm trying to get jogging again using the couch to 5k plan, so that is forcibly intervals).

Food-wise it's basically - avoid processed food and sugar, get enough good protein and moderate complex carbohydrates, fill up on veg, moderate amounts of fruit, drink loads of water and avoid eating too late.

Aaaand - I'm also tracking my sleep, because I feel that influences how hungry I am.

I remember reading a study from the ETH sports department, which said that interval training is ideal for fat loss due to the after-burn effect it creates. So do you reckon I should follow up the weight training with a short session of intervals or has the weight training in circle format (sixty seconds of maximum effort, thirty seconds to change machine) got that covered?

I've already got about 34 kg of muscle mass, so even if I lost a little bit, it wouldn't be the end of the world. But it would be nice to keep the stuff as it means the occasional meal out with my mates won't instantly throw me back.

Thanks for all the useful responses - although I am still confused but it's good to hear what has worked for others. I really hope I can finally get back to being fit and as healthy as is possible for the bundle of diseases that is me.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kittster for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 06.09.2011, 09:35
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 17,055
Groaned at 649 Times in 502 Posts
Thanked 25,851 Times in 10,419 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Quote:
View Post
Ok, so here's my plan:
Twice a week I do a weights programme in the form of circle training, this is followed by a shorter cardio element of half an hour.

Four times a week I'll be doing cardio, with three longer sessions lasting one hour, again with a heart rate below 140 and one shorter session that is intervals (I'm trying to get jogging again using the couch to 5k plan, so that is forcibly intervals).
Are you doing too much too soon? That sounds quite a gruelling schedule and may be too much.

I'm not trying to discourage you but if you have a schedule that is too demanding then you won't stick to it.

Goo luck though!
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:13
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Well done Kittster and good luck. I reckon it helps if you can have a mate do it too, as that way you motivate each other.

One point I would like to make is that in this type of thread, of course everyone has the right to write their own opinion, but it would be very helpful if those with professional experience could mention that. It helps for those that are looking for the right answer.
Thanks
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank grumpygit for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:18
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Kittster's approach is correct, I think that just getting on with it and not worrying too much about muscle mass loss is the best strategy. Initially, the "burn the fat, feed the muscle" technique is more trouble than it's worth, and can even be a roadblock to people who are overweight and subconsciously still on the fence about putting in the effort to losing weight. It can be another discouraging excuse for it being "too complicated". Cardio and HIIT (along with an improved diet) are what you should focus on in the initial stages of weight loss. I found that once I started seeing results and feeling better, I naturally started understanding my body and wanting to challenge it more through muscle exercises.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Russkov for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,940
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,599 Times in 2,882 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Well, I have a few targets set and I know I can reach them if I stick to this. I accept that maybe one of those long cardio sessions will fall by the wayside and I won't beat myself up about it. Or I can do something different instead of one of those long sessions, like go on a bike ride or go swimming. Keep it interesting.

Thing is:
  • I'm sick of being unfit and fat AND even more sick of complaining about it
  • The gym is two minute's bike ride from my place / on my way home from work / right next to where all my university courses take place, so all I have to do is have my gym bag with me
  • I enjoy exercise
  • Two of my mates go to the same gym, so we can motivate each other
  • I'm really hell-bent on achieving those goals
  • I've done something like this before and managed to stick to it for six months, only reason I stopped was because I no longer had access to the gym due to moving
Of course I will be keeping a close eye on my lupus symptoms, this is not about working out no matter what.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kittster for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:20
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Quote:
View Post
so the instructor tells me that I need to get rid of quite a bit of the fat (30 kg of it, to be exact) but that I should under no circumstance start training cardio, rather I should focus on doing weights
He is wrong.

Weights will help, and give some variety, but if you want to lose fat you need to have a balanced diet and do lots of cardio.

Also make sure the cardio is high enough intensity, and don't get fooled by the fat burning zone rubbish. I'd go for 160+ hr rather than 140 (unless there is a medical reason to keep it low) and also do some high intensity intervals and shorter sessions as well.

low intensity might burn a high % fat, but it's misleading...
40% of 800-1000 cals an hour is a lot is more than 60% of 300-400 cals an hour...

I did 2-3 hours a day of cardio 6 days a week for many years to keep at lightweight when I was competing as a rower, and I didn't reduce my muscle mass, I increased it, and the lower body fat made me look more muscular too.

If cardio reduced muscle mass it would have made it easier to make weight but I found that the opposite was true as I was putting muscle on (I did no weights, just cardio and core) and it got harder to make lightweight, to start with I needed to get down to 10% body fat to make weight, but eventually by the time I retired I needed to get to 5%.

btw, I'm not suggesting you do that much cardio (unless you want to) but you should be doing 3 or 4 cardio sessions a week and build up the intensity and time as you get fitter. Add in some weights if you want to. Which is pretty much what your plan is

What you're suggesting looks good to me... keep track of your calories too.

Good Luck
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

To be fair, cran, rowing is a pretty muscle-intensive exercise. It's technically cardio, I guess, but only barely. That's why it's considered to be the perfect exercise by many. I do 45 min of rowing machine once or twice per week for variety's sake, and I'm not sure I could do any more. HIIT on an exercise bike is gravy compared to it.

I agree it's all about intensity. My HIIT bike sessions heart-rate is usually between 150-170 (if the machine is correct) and I don't find it particularly excessive.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:30
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Quote:
View Post
To be fair, cran, rowing is a pretty muscle-intensive exercise. It's technically cardio, I guess, but only barely. I do 45 min of rowing machine once or twice per week for variety's sake, and I'm not sure I could do any more. HIIT on an exercise bike is gravy compared to it.

I agree it's all about intensity. My HIIT bike sessions heart-rate is usually between 150-170 (if the machine is correct) and I don't find it particularly excessive.
depends on your age no?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:30
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Quote:
View Post
To be fair, cran, rowing is a pretty muscle-intensive exercise. It's technically cardio, I guess, but only barely. I do 45 min of rowing machine once or twice per week for variety's sake, and I'm not sure I could do any more. HIIT on an exercise bike is gravy compared to it.
True, it does use a lot of muscles, but cycling and climbers and treadmills are also quite intense if you push hard.

Now I do mostly cycling, but I don't seem to lose muscle from my arms.

Maybe the OP should use the rowing maching
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:31
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Baselland
Posts: 25
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
mitzekatze has no particular reputation at present
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

I totally think every fitness program should bestrictly individual and based on the result you want to achieve. The cardio isthe best to lose weight ( fat) . I personally try to make 30 to 60 min cardioper day. My aim lose weight. I am also trying to eat only fruit and vegetables,nuts and water , water and green tee. Its hard as the results are coming not sofast I want , but I am not giving up.

I used togo 5 days in the gym before that. I also started with 30 min cardio before Istart with the weights and then another 30 min at the end of the training. Iwas just very slimmm.

I havenever heard that you should not do any cardio .....so weird
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:34
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Quote:
View Post
depends on your age no?
depends on your resting and maximum heart rates (which is loosely related to age, it will decrease as you get older)

e.g

if your resting heart rate is 50 and max 200 then 80% MHR would be
50 + (0.80 * (200 - 50)) = 170

if your resting heart rate is 60 and max 180 then 80% MHR would be
60 + (0.80 * (180 - 60)) = 156
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:55
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,653
Groaned at 279 Times in 230 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

A rough rule of thumb is that you'll burn 1 cal per hour per kg of weight per kmh

IE if you weigh 80kg - run for 40mins at 10kmh you'll burn approximately - 80 * 40/60 * 10 = 533 calories.

Slower you burn less - faster you burn more.

You have to put in some serious cardio to get your body to "eat" its own muscle. That doesn't even happen on a marathon!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 06.09.2011, 11:30
Niranjan
 
Posts: n/a
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Quote:
View Post
One point I would like to make is that in this type of thread, of course everyone has the right to write their own opinion, but it would be very helpful if those with professional experience could mention that. It helps for those that are looking for the right answer.
Thanks
I don't agree with this view, and I have made this point elsewhere earlier. The problem today is lots of dodgy "professionals". You don't have to look very far, look at the advice given to the OP by a professional in real life and it is so dodgy, you can well imagine the amount of bull that can be posted by internet professionals posting anonymously

Today, it doesn't take much to become a professional sports therapist, coach, or masseur (I have seen people with very questionable IQs going on to become successful coaches with a large follower base; mostly they are people who failed to be successful as competitive athletes and didn't do too well in mainstream jobs either).

On topic, of all the posts above, I agree the most with Frankzappa, we are over-complicating what is a very simple matter where some common sense and ability to listen to one's own body is all that is required.

Anyway, go on, this is a weekly cycle, there will be one more identical fat-loss thread next week, and we can go over it all over again. EF rocks
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 06.09.2011, 11:38
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,940
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,599 Times in 2,882 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Quote:
View Post
Anyway, go on, this is a weekly cycle, there will be one more identical fat-loss thread next week, and we can go over it all over again. EF rocks
I thought it was seasonal
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kittster for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 06.09.2011, 12:13
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 17,055
Groaned at 649 Times in 502 Posts
Thanked 25,851 Times in 10,419 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Quote:
View Post
I thought it was seasonal
There are more at the beginning of January, after the excesses of Christmas and then again just before the summer when people realise they're not going to look quite as they imagined on holiday.

Exercise and healthy living should be for life - and should, like life itself, be fun.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 06.09.2011, 12:37
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,653
Groaned at 279 Times in 230 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm confused - I SHOULDN'T do cardio because it will destroy my muscles?

Quote:
View Post
Exercise and healthy living should be for life - and should, like life itself, be fun.
7am at the track doing running drills

It was actually superb fun - the sun inched its way over the horizon bathing the track in a warm glow. The drills were fun, hard and vaguely competitive. And we did only 4 of them! I have a whole library of funky things to get the body working more efficiently!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
fat, muscle, weight loss




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wish me luck in my battle because I need it RolandRB General off-topic 5 11.03.2011 19:44
Getting UK citizenship - will it extend my tourist visa? Ms.Welsh Permits/visas/government 12 31.01.2011 18:20
I cannot use my telephone because of my daughters rats Sutter Complaints corner 38 25.05.2008 12:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0