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  #181  
Old 14.09.2018, 00:00
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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Once again, to clarify, I am not justifying Serena's actions at the time nor her excuses after the fact. She should apologise in my opinion for calling the umpire a cheat.

My point, again to clarify, is that the rule is too open to interpretation. I will neither accept nor concede your premise that athletes should accept that "shit happens" - this is professional sport, not me and you knocking up at the local tennis club. They have technology to track balls millimetrically and to sense the slightest touch of ball on net cord, so why are they still persisting with rules that allow huge variation in human interpretation in other areas? It makes no sense.
Completely subjective according to the umpire and therein lies the problem!
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  #182  
Old 14.09.2018, 05:19
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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No one knows what Ramos saw. But what typically happens in most tournaments -notwithstanding a Grand Slam Final! - is that the umpire will issue a a soft warning. Let me spell this out for you..."Ms Williams, I suspect your coach is making signals to you".. And then, they/the umpire will give the player the chance to remove their coach from their visual sight (which Martina Navratilova also suggested in her op ed) Ramos did not do that but issued a violation immediately. Therein lies the caveat...and my issue. This umpire did what no umpire has done before in a Grand Slam Final. And that is why many players on the tour are aghast and side with Serena. PS.. Of course the ITF will support their own! Naive to think they would not do so...

Serena's reaction was offensive and odious but the umpire did her nor Osaka and the Grand Slam final no favors. He let the issue escalate and he could have contained it.

Therein lies the problem..or my problem with the officiating...
I strongly disagree with you on the soft warning. In a majority of cases it's not so clear whether coaching was involved or not - in these instances a soft warning is appropriate. This particular case is very different. The coach was clearly giving instructions, as he confirmed. Serena Williams was looking at him, as she confirmed. In an obvious case like this one, no soft warning is necessary and the code violation is justified.

And explain me how did the umpire escalate things? When she was yelling at him after the 2nd code violation, he remained calm and seemed to explain her the situation. He could have issued the third code violation right at that moment. He did not. She later continued to call him a liar. Again, he could have issued the third code violation, he did not. She told him to be quite, just to continue arguing in his direction. Again, he could have issued the 3rd code violation. He did not. When she finally not only called him a liar but also a thief he decided to give her the 3rd code violation. Surely he was the one who let the issue escalate
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  #183  
Old 14.09.2018, 07:34
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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No one knows what Ramos saw. But what typically happens in most tournaments -notwithstanding a Grand Slam Final! - is that the umpire will issue a a soft warning. Let me spell this out for you..."Ms Williams, I suspect your coach is making signals to you".. And then, they/the umpire will give the player the chance to remove their coach from their visual sight (which Martina Navratilova also suggested in her op ed) Ramos did not do that but issued a violation immediately. Therein lies the caveat...and my issue. This umpire did what no umpire has done before in a Grand Slam Final. And that is why many players on the tour are aghast and side with Serena. PS.. Of course the ITF will support their own! Naive to think they would not do so...

Serena's reaction was offensive and odious but the umpire did her nor Osaka and the Grand Slam final no favors. He let the issue escalate and he could have contained it.

Therein lies the problem..or my problem with the officiating...
Sorry, but you are not consistent at all in your posts when you try to defend Serena. I am not so sure he did what no umpire has done in the grand slam tournaments history and I can't put up with "I think, It seems, It looks, I have seen""We in America think" type of arguments anymore. It was what everybody else saw and what her coach admitted too. But Serena's problem wasn't that. She continued playing after the verbal warning for coaching. Her problem was when she lost a game in the second set and Ramos issues his point penalty after she smashed her racket on the ground. Only then did the whole circus start. Funnily, she was still ahead in the second set but she couldn't move on. Players are expected to pull themselves together in these situations and there's no umpire's duty to comfort them and make them calm down. Ramos was a rigid umpire but I think that even if he tried to stop Serena's torrent of verbal abuse he couldn't have stopped her. Serena was very frustrated at the perspective of losing her second match to Osaka in a few months time only and lose her chance of winning her 24th major title. I don't contest she also had a bee in her bonnet because I'm well aware of what must have been like to a black woman in America. Serena is great, we're lucky to live in her time because it gives hopes to everybody. But she was wrong here and then and apparently in many other situations, and it wasn't her first outburst.
I don't expect her to be less arrogant and to lose with grace at all times and I like a bit of arrogance from her because I know there are people who think she should be grateful for what she has achieved as if she owes something to them personally (again, I can imagine how's to be black in America), but turning a very correct although maybe a bit rigid umpire into a criminal who had to be escorted out of the stadium and turning the winner into someone who had to apologise for winning was horrible. She had no excuses. Even at her first point penalty she should have tried to continue playing and giving her best. But.....probably she knew she can't do it anymore, she was out of breath after the first games in the second set. I think it was also a strategy to go out of the final not like someone who lost but someone who lost because was discriminated. It seem a bit pathetic for someone as huge as her, she didn't need that anymore, she proved her worth against all odds all her life.
Of course, other players will take her side, it would be naive not to expect that because they also abuse their rackets and do all sort of things in the heat of the moment and would like people to be a bit more understanding.

Last edited by greenmount; 14.09.2018 at 07:52.
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  #184  
Old 14.09.2018, 08:36
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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No one knows what Ramos saw. But what typically happens in most tournaments -notwithstanding a Grand Slam Final! - is that the umpire will issue a a soft warning. Let me spell this out for you..."Ms Williams, I suspect your coach is making signals to you".. And then, they/the umpire will give the player the chance to remove their coach from their visual sight (which Martina Navratilova also suggested in her op ed) Ramos did not do that but issued a violation immediately. Therein lies the caveat...and my issue. This umpire did what no umpire has done before in a Grand Slam Final. And that is why many players on the tour are aghast and side with Serena. PS.. Of course the ITF will support their own! Naive to think they would not do so...

Serena's reaction was offensive and odious but the umpire did her nor Osaka and the Grand Slam final no favors. He let the issue escalate and he could have contained it.

Therein lies the problem..or my problem with the officiating...
You obviously have no clue. Serena let the situation escalate. Not the umpire. Serena is one of the greatest ever and then plays the racism card. Nobody can defend himself to such an accusation and Serena is probably pretty well aware of that.

Simply a disgrace for the sport.
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  #185  
Old 14.09.2018, 09:22
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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You obviously have no clue. Serena let the situation escalate. Not the umpire. Serena is one of the greatest ever and then plays the racism card. Nobody can defend himself to such an accusation and Serena is probably pretty well aware of that.

Simply a disgrace for the sport.
As a qualified (football) referee, I can assure you that game management, i.e. not letting things escalate, is certainly (a big!) part of your remit.

Sometimes it can't be helped, but most of the time it can be by talking to players and issuing warnings before sanctioning. Would it have made a difference here? Hard to say; Serena was playing like a drain, so would probably have gone off on one at some point, anyway. Being extremely punctillious often comes across as being aloof though, that always enrages players.
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  #186  
Old 14.09.2018, 16:34
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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You obviously have no clue. Serena let the situation escalate. Not the umpire. Serena is one of the greatest ever and then plays the racism card. Nobody can defend himself to such an accusation and Serena is probably pretty well aware of that.

Simply a disgrace for the sport.
Well they can, actually. They can simply point to their history and challenge the accuser to find a pattern of racism.

And since this particular umpire has a pattern of letting male players get away with precisely this behavior, Serene has a point (of sexism, rather then racism).
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  #187  
Old 14.09.2018, 17:28
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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Well they can, actually. They can simply point to their history and challenge the accuser to find a pattern of racism.

And since this particular umpire has a pattern of letting male players get away with precisely this behavior, Serene has a point (of sexism, rather then racism).
Your last part is just wrong. Carlos Ramos, the umpire, e.g. gave Djokovic a code violation for "his attitude", Murray for saying "stupid umpiring" and I think to Kyrgios for yelling "towel!" to a ball boy, just to name a few.
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  #188  
Old 14.09.2018, 20:36
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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Your last part is just wrong. Carlos Ramos, the umpire, e.g. gave Djokovic a code violation for "his attitude", Murray for saying "stupid umpiring" and I think to Kyrgios for yelling "towel!" to a ball boy, just to name a few.
He's swimming against the current - i.e. letting the big tennis stars get away with a lot of stuff. There's a lot of money involved in these tournaments and some of the umpires tend to favour the big names (who'll also bring in the cash). Ramos is probably among the rare birds that are not like that. The fact that he resisted under that pressure at the US Open and in similar situations is quite remarkable. Others, to avoid the spectacle, would have bent probably. Well, it was about time me thinks.


But anyway, hopefully Serena will get another chances to win her 24th title and why not the 25th and so on. I was never a fan of Serena because I just couldn't get her character, her personality. But I really like her style of playing. I was never a fan of Sharapova because I did get her personality....but Naomi Osaka definitely won my heart.

Last edited by greenmount; 14.09.2018 at 20:52.
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  #189  
Old 15.09.2018, 06:44
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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He's swimming against the current - i.e. letting the big tennis stars get away with a lot of stuff.
I guess you mean that Carlos Ramos doesn't let the stars getting away with a lot of stuff and has a quite balanced way of umpiring? If yes, then I absolutely agree.

I also think it absolutely ridiculous how some people will point out isolated instances where he might have been milder in his evaluation of events. This doesn't make him sexist/racist, it makes him human. He seems to be a man, who will punish you, if he is convinced that you were violating the code.
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  #190  
Old 22.01.2019, 12:29
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

Another tennis player can't take the heat...

Feel a bit sorry for him because it obviously overtook him (his temper and his bag) and now he's having to fight fires for a moment of madness.
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  #191  
Old 22.01.2019, 13:01
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

At least he apologized, unlike the person who this thread was started for
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  #192  
Old 22.01.2019, 17:24
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

I don't think the two compare. Not at all. Most of all Busta doesn't claim to be a victim.
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  #193  
Old 03.06.2019, 14:15
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

....and Serena strikes again, not so shocking news after all....
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Dominic Thiem has continued his criticism of Serena Williams, accusing her of having a “bad personality” after he was booted from a press conference room at the French Open to make way for the women’s star.
Thiem booked his spot in the round of 16 with a four-sets win over Pablo Cuevas in Paris and was speaking to reporters in the main press room when Williams, wanting to get her media commitments over as quickly as possible after a shock loss to Sofia Kenin, stole his thunder.
The Austrian was asked to ake way as Williams was given priority — and he was steaming.
RELATED: Star furious after Serena upstages him
“I don’t really get it, seriously. I mean, what the hell? No, but it’s a joke, really … I have to leave the room because she’s coming?” Thiem said.
“What’s my point of that? I have to leave the room because she’s coming. Well I’ll leave also then. I can also do whatever I want.”
He later accused Williams of having a “bad personality” in an interview with EuroSport.
“I wasn’t angry or frustrated. Maybe for a couple of minutes or so. It is just the principle,” he said in German.
“It doesn’t matter, if it is me who sits in there. I still made a wrong statement. I said that I am not a junior anymore. But even if a junior is in there, every player has to wait.

“It also shows a bad personality in my opinion. I am 100 percent sure (Roger) Federer or (Rafa) Nadal would never do something like that.”
https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis...b82820354d4afe

Is this feminism? Thanks but no, thanks.
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  #194  
Old 03.06.2019, 15:06
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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....and Serena strikes again, not so shocking news after all....

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis...b82820354d4afe

Is this feminism? Thanks but no, thanks.
Nothing to do with feminism, just pure entitlement.
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  #195  
Old 03.06.2019, 15:15
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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Is this feminism? Thanks but no, thanks.
Shockingly bad from the Roland-Garros management.
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