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  #61  
Old 10.09.2018, 12:31
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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Charm is not something I associate with booing a 20 year old winning her first GS title. You want to boo the umpire, fine, I guess, but booing an opponent who did NOTHING to deserve it is scummy behavior and about as charming as Harvey Weinstein.

I don't disagree but merely pointing out the context, I think fans & players generally like the US Open because of it's fans. The booing, it's more a reflection of the current climate in the US atm ignoring logic/reason etc. with the culture & media wars. Very polarized and absolutely one of the most surreal finals I've ever seen in tennis
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  #62  
Old 10.09.2018, 12:37
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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I don't disagree but merely pointing out the context, I think fans & players generally like the US Open because of it's fans. The booing, it's more a reflection of the current climate in the US atm ignoring logic/reason etc. with the culture & media wars. Very polarized and absolutely one of the most surreal finals I've ever seen in tennis
If you read the American press she was a victim and a justice fighter. Even our discussion here led to debating racism, sexism and what not. I think the true victims of racism or sexism don't even complain anymore (probably some wouldn't want to see their name attached to racism instead of their achievements won the hard way), not much space left...It seems common sense is a lost cause, so no point in debating any further.
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  #63  
Old 10.09.2018, 14:20
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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The booing, it's more a reflection of the current climate in the US atm ignoring logic/reason etc. with the culture & media wars.
Really? I don't see it that complex - the US Open are in New York. New Yorkers aren't exactly famous for their tact or class... and Americans love to win in sports and shout "USA", especially at home.
Williams is a national hero and nobody there bought their ticket to see some Asian chick win instead... simple as that.
If there was any discrimination in the whole story... it is the way the crowd treated Osaka. Its totally fine that athletes have some home advantage, but the way the American fans behaved was simply rude.
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  #64  
Old 10.09.2018, 15:59
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

I'm not a huge tennis fan, but watch quite a few tournaments and can appreciate the formality. But in reality, that's part of international sports I guess to take a different spin with one's culture.


Hockey, I'm more versed in, and it was shocking to see how Swiss fans acted in comparison to NHL fans. A totally different atmosphere and style.


(as for the NHL, you can always bett there will be a lot of booing when the league commissioner is present to give out a big award. )
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  #65  
Old 10.09.2018, 17:02
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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Really? I don't see it that complex - the US Open are in New York. New Yorkers aren't exactly famous for their tact or class... and Americans love to win in sports and shout "USA", especially at home.
Williams is a national hero and nobody there bought their ticket to see some Asian chick win instead... simple as that.
If there was any discrimination in the whole story... it is the way the crowd treated Osaka. Its totally fine that athletes have some home advantage, but the way the American fans behaved was simply rude.
I am from New York, so I find your generalization about New Yorkers offensive. It is so not true. Well, the exception being Trump, of course. You might find that the crowd at the US Open is very mixed and also very international. You could say that those that booed were obviously Serena fans. To her credit, she did denounce the booing and asked for it to be stopped.
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  #66  
Old 10.09.2018, 21:58
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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Really? I don't see it that complex - the US Open are in New York. New Yorkers aren't exactly famous for their tact or class... and Americans love to win in sports and shout "USA", especially at home.
Williams is a national hero and nobody there bought their ticket to see some Asian chick win instead... simple as that.
If there was any discrimination in the whole story... it is the way the crowd treated Osaka. Its totally fine that athletes have some home advantage, but the way the American fans behaved was simply rude.
I am of the opposite opinion. American fans are actually a bit better even when they have a favourite player. I found the atmosphere at Wimbledon to be extremely heavy in similar situations (and in other places too). Maybe it's a question of perception, like with many other things. I wouldn't generalise. I don't include this totally cringeworthy case.

But not important. The "Asian" chick (I guess our friends classify her as "black" given her mixed heritage, pay attention....) has double citizenship and is a product of the American school of tennis.
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  #67  
Old 10.09.2018, 22:05
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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I am from New York, so I find your generalization about New Yorkers offensive. It is so not true.


Tom
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  #68  
Old 11.09.2018, 09:19
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

Well, whether there was inherent racism or sexism in the umpire's decision (there almost certainly wasn't to my mind), there is plenty on show in good ol' Rupert Murdoch's Aussie rag this morning...

https://twitter.com/Knightcartoons/s...17329030393856
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  #69  
Old 11.09.2018, 09:43
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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Williams is a national hero and nobody there bought their ticket to see some Asian chick win instead... simple as that.
Umm, Osaka is a US citizen, too.

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Well, whether there was inherent racism or sexism in the umpire's decision (there almost certainly wasn't to my mind)
And black, too.

Tom
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  #70  
Old 11.09.2018, 10:39
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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But not important. The "Asian" chick (I guess our friends classify her as "black" given her mixed heritage, pay attention....) has double citizenship and is a product of the American school of tennis.
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Umm, Osaka is a US citizen, too.


Osaka decided to play for Japan and that's the end of the story. The crowd wasn't going ""but she is somehow American as well", they were booing.


Japan is one of the less tolerant societies I have experienced. Bizarrely, they seem to be getting more and more tolerant and open while the west is moving in the opposite direction.
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  #71  
Old 11.09.2018, 10:50
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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Osaka decided to play for Japan and that's the end of the story. The crowd wasn't going ""but she is somehow American as well", they were booing.
The crowd wasn't booing Osaka, the crowd was booing the tournament organisers and when Serena, the very one who created the drama, pulled herself together and asked them to move on, they behaved. They were manipulated by their superhero they too feel that she should be allowed to break the rules without penalties....a weird celebrity culture at work, for sure. Serena knew that whatever her coach is doing she's the one to be fined and because it was pretty obvious she was going to lose to the underdog she started the theatre scene by implying that the decision was incorrect and that she would never cheat (and I believe her, but as said, she knew dam' well she'll be penalised on behalf of her coach's behaviour)....and then, the circus and the absurd of the situation reached a maximum point. She demanded excuses for inexistent insults from the umpire's part. If that's not theatre, I don't know what it is. I like it when the players challenge the umpire's decision because they're humans not robots, but not like this, really. I don't blame the crowd as much as I blame the manipulative Serena....at least in this situation she was leading the crowd into that direction, people react to "injustice"..

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  #72  
Old 11.09.2018, 11:05
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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The crowd wasn't booing Osaka, the crowd was booing the tournament organisers and when Serena, the very one who created the drama, pulled herself together and asked them to move on, they behaved. They were manipulated by their superhero they too feel that she should be allowed to break the rules without penalties....a weird celebrity culture at work, for sure. Serena knew that whatever her coach is doing she's the one to be fined and because it was pretty obvious she was going to lose to the underdog she started the theatre scene by implying that the decision was incorrect and that she would never cheat (and I believe her, but as said, she knew dam' well she'll be penalised on behalf of her coach's behaviour)....and then, the circus and the absurd of the situation reached a maximum point. She demanded excuses for inexistent insults from the umpire's part. If that's not theatre, I don't know what it is. I like it when the players challenge the umpire's decision because they're humans not robots, but not like this, really. I don't blame the crowd as much as I blame the manipulative Serena....at least in this situation she was leading the crowd into that direction, people react to "injustice"..
Pretty sure they were booing during her trophy presentation, so if that's not booing her, i'm not sure what is. Serena asked them to stop and they seemed to, at least.
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  #73  
Old 11.09.2018, 11:15
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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Pretty sure they were booing during her trophy presentation, so if that's not booing her, i'm not sure what is. Serena asked them to stop and they seemed to, at least.
I've already told my opinion and don't see any reason to argue this point any further. Not the most classy crowd but they surely were pissed off to see their national symbol was put in her place by an European umpire...it's funny that even after the whole episode their press still finds excuses and accuses the umpire of racism, sexism and general unfairness.
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Old 11.09.2018, 11:23
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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I've already told my opinion and don't see any reason to argue this point any further. Not the most classy crowd but they surely were pissed off to see their national symbol was put in her place by an European umpire...it's funny that even after the whole episode their press still finds excuses and accuses the umpire of racism, sexism and general unfairness.
Not just the press, but plenty of former players etc etc. It has really split opinions. I'm with you on it not being sexist or racist, but perhaps we are missing something.
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  #75  
Old 11.09.2018, 11:32
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

What else is missing? To me it is a straightforward case and Serena should take most of the blame.
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  #76  
Old 11.09.2018, 11:41
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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What else is missing? To me it is a straightforward case and Serena should take most of the blame.
Things are rarely as straightforward as they seem. When there are respected voices on both sides of the debate, it should probably give us pause.
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  #77  
Old 11.09.2018, 12:10
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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Osaka decided to play for Japan and that's the end of the story.
In what sense was she playing for Japan?

She is a US citizen, and has lived there for most of her life.

From a legal point of view, when she is in the US she is ONLY a US citizen, as that's how it works with people with multiple citizenships.

Tom
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Old 11.09.2018, 12:13
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

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In what sense was she playing for Japan?

She is a US citizen, and has lived there for most of her life.

From a legal point of view, when she is in the US she is ONLY a US citizen, as that's how it works with people with multiple citizenships.

Tom
Hope this helps
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  #79  
Old 11.09.2018, 12:30
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

https://www.20min.ch/sport/tennis/st...ybaby-28259881

Ah, sorry, thought it would show the caricature related to this topic
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Old 11.09.2018, 12:33
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Re: Shockingly bad form from Serena Williams

This one
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