He admitted he signaled and coached; the caveat is...Diid Serena see it?? And for the record her coach was never warned nor accused before this final...

PS If you watched the final live, no one saw it as it was not televised.

Only once the umpire sanctioned Serena did we see her coach's "thumbs up".

It doesn't matter if she saw it or not. And for the record if he wasn't fined it doesn't mean he didn't coach, as per a previous post of yours. Be consistent, dam' it!

Sorry Greenmount, but I don't get your post! A coach is never fined for coaching FYI! But a player can be penalized, even if they did not see the coaching. Have you played tennis and do you understand the rules?

It seems you don't get them since you keep arguing that Serena can't be penalised because she didn't see him coaching (as if she could prove that anyway).

And what does "And for the record her coach was never warned nor accused before this final..." have to do with what happened in this final?

Again...Let's agree to disagree here. My take is different from yours and in my view, a coach signaling to a player should not warrant a sanction/violation unless the umpire is completely convinced that the player took the signal/coaching. That is the issue and your view differs from mine but so be it

Yes, ITF will back up your view for sure.

I did not write that this was his second offence.

I wrote:

Already twice during this event a code violation had been handed out for "suspected" coaching.

But read what you want to read.

Rules are very clear and they don't care about your opinion.

In football for example (and many other sports) a coach can be penalised and send off, this makes sense since he is allowed to coach and thus it is to be seen as a real punishment.

A coach during these tournaments is not allowed to coach and thus penalising him would make no sense at all. The coach is the players responsibility and thus if the coach screws up the player takes the blame. If the player wants to avoid this they can just tell their coach to not come in.

Also it does not matter is she sees it or not, the rule is about the coach not allow to do coaching. They should just have done what more smart coaches/players do and use subtle gestures instead of this incredible clear coaching what he did.

The rules are incredible simple and clear about this. Do you understand them?

Oh I get it and then some as I played the sport competitively. Have you played the sport and do you get it? Again, a player should not be penalized unless the umpire is 100% certain that he/she has received coaching. That is a 2 way street and EXTREMELY subjective which is part of the issue. Did Serena see the signals or not? That is why MOST umpires will issue a "soft" warning to players which Ramos chose not to do. Why he did this I have no clue but in my opinion, he was wrong.

You have your opinion and I have mine. It is what it is...

Sorry, and your point is exactly what? Looking at the consequences for her--there was exactly none after the very first warning/violation, except for her crazy inflated ego.

I follow the rules in this discussion, you follow your opinion which does not follow the rules.

See the difference?

My point is: you need 3 violations to be sanctioned/docked a game. A "soft" warning is not the same as a violation and most umpires will speak to the player and issue a soft warning for a supposed "coaching" violation before giving them a violation. This umpire, Ramos, chose not to for some reason.

In your view the penalty should be issued only after the player has given their written consent! "Serena, it was coaching! Did you see it?""No sir!"Oh, OK, I thought I have seen something....hmm, remind me to have my eyes checked, tomorrow, thank you Serena! Now I'm sure it wasn't coaching." Her coach too admitted, don't see why we still argue about it.

Yes, I get it she was under pressure to win her 24th title and she might not get another chance at her age. But in her situation, most players don't even bother to contest the warning or the penalty because they know it's not gonna solve anything (in their case....Serena will probably have the rules changed so that on-court coaching on grand slams won't be penalised anymore so we can apply it retroactively just for her!) and they should focus on the match itself.

I suspect Terrifisch is seeing it from the perspective of someone who has played at a good level, maybe a good club player level, which is probably a higher level than the rest of us have ever played tennis. It seems that he knows how things are usually done - i.e. the unwritten rules of umpiring.

In the same way that many of us probably have played competitive football to a decent level and know that The Laws of the Game will tell you that any referee abuse will be sanctioned with a card, however we all know that if you disagree with a decision 95% of player will shout something along the lines of "That's bs referee" or "f off, that's a sh1t decision" and 99.9% of the time the ref does nothing - watch any professional game and about half the cut aways to players are them saying "f off" to the ref!!

Maybe he wanted to. But Serena Williams basically told him to shut up...so, there really was not much for him to do

anyone for tennis?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB2f6-U72Zk

Why is terryfisch so sure that all players, at all times, receive that kind of courtesy? How many did what Serena did after what they thought to be an unfair decision?

In another post

So she's sure that those violating rules sometimes get away with, but she's also sure Serena never got away with violating rules. She's demanding 100% certainty only in Serena's case, let's understand this thing....

Your first part is just an argument from authority. And rest assured that some people on this forum have played competitively or/and were training partners with people who play on the pro tour now.

And the rest are just assumptions by you, how do you know Serena Williams did not see the instructions of her coach? How do you know what Carlos Ramos saw? Maybe he was sure that Serena Williams looked at her coach when he made this hand movements. If you would have watched the match you would have noticed that she did in fact look at her box just before the umpire gives her the code violation. She also doesn't deny that she looked at the box, in fact she said: "if he gives me a thumbs up he is trying to tell me to calm down [or "come on"?] we do not have any code."