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  #21  
Old 20.09.2019, 15:50
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Re: wing chun

Aikido is to put it mildly "a little esoteric". You are essentially only using your opponents force and redirect it against him. Which is in simple terms a lot less efficient than a punch in the face.



There are worse ways to spend your free time than to practice it, but its not going to help you defend yourself well (unless you are Steven Seagal...)
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  #22  
Old 20.09.2019, 16:10
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Re: wing chun

Everybody know's there's only one effective martial art: gun fu!
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  #23  
Old 20.09.2019, 16:22
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Re: wing chun

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That simply isn't true. I'll be the first to say that Wing Chun is hardly the most effective and complete fighting system out there, nor is it going to be winning any competitive MA competitions, but to say it is completely ineffective is just plain wrong.

Aikido I have no clue about, other than Steven Seagull made it very famous in the 80's and 90's. I don't really have much interest in Japanese MA in general though.
it is "effective" (and i use the term loosely) against people that don't have a clue about fighitng (or that at least don't know how to double leg/tackle) .other MAs will get me to that level faster and with more chances of defending myself.


like i said, it is the homeopathy of martial arts.
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  #24  
Old 20.09.2019, 16:35
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Re: wing chun

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that bullying thread 2 weeks ago, A binge of master wong videos and a jre guest talking about aikido. for some reason this has been in my orbit.


People latch onto aikido and WC particularly for weird things. when they are basically the homeopathy of martial arts.
No no, don't listen to naysayers. It's a seriously good thread.
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  #25  
Old 20.09.2019, 17:23
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Re: wing chun

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it is "effective" (and i use the term loosely) against people that don't have a clue about fighitng (or that at least don't know how to double leg/tackle) .other MAs will get me to that level faster and with more chances of defending myself.
if you want to learn how to defend yourself quickly purely for practical reasons then just take up something like Thai Boxing where you will get used to punching and being punched. Or Krav Maga, which aims to teach you how to neutralise a threat in the quickest way possible.

But if you are lucky enough to find a hard teacher of Wing Chun that does tons of padwork and sparring and focuses on practical applications then of course you will learn how to punch and defend yourself reasonably quickly vs teachers who do all the soft wishy-washy non-contact stuff.

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like i said, it is the homeopathy of martial arts.
No, it isn't. That's just your opinion based on what appears to be watching videos and no practical experience.
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  #26  
Old 20.09.2019, 17:39
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Re: wing chun

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if you want to learn how to defend yourself quickly purely for practical reasons then just take up something like Thai Boxing where you will get used to punching and being punched. Or Krav Maga, which aims to teach you how to neutralise a threat in the quickest way possible..
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But if you are lucky enough to find a hard teacher of Wing Chun that does tons of padwork and sparring and focuses on practical applications then of course you will learn how to punch and defend yourself reasonably quickly vs teachers who do all the soft wishy-washy non-contact stuff.



No, it isn't. That's just your opinion based on what appears to be watching videos and no practical experience.


that is kinda the point. if you find a teacher and if he.....


you don't go through those ifs to get to good muai thai/boxing/wrestling schools that is the default. you are making the "oh some homeopathic remedies work" argument

I have trained and sparred with WC guys.
l'd put my confidence on a bjj blue belt 10/10 to defend themselves.
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  #27  
Old 20.09.2019, 17:52
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Re: wing chun

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that is kinda the point. if you find a teacher and if he.....


you don't go through those ifs to get to good muai thai/boxing/wrestling schools that is the default. you are making the "oh some homeopathic remedies work" argument

I have trained and sparred with WC guys.
l'd put my confidence on a bjj blue belt 10/10 to defend themselves.
Listen, you are the one essentially saying "All wing chun is crap and useless" and I am simply saying that the statement is not factually correct. Muay Thai, Boxing and Wrestling are competitive sports that are highly adaptable and applicable to self-defence with tons of sparring and conditioning involved, so of course they will quickly take out Wing Chun guys who often do very low conditioning and sparring.

You are fully correct that many martial arts or competitive fighting sports will teach you self-defence quicker than the average Wing Chun class. You are not correct with saying that all wing chun is crap and useless.
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  #28  
Old 20.09.2019, 17:57
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Re: wing chun

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Listen, you are the one essentially saying "All wing chun is crap and useless" and I am simply saying that the statement is not factually correct. Muay Thai, Boxing and Wrestling are competitive sports that are highly adaptable and applicable to self-defence with tons of sparring and conditioning involved, so of course they will quickly take out Wing Chun guys who often do very low conditioning and sparring.

You are fully correct that many martial arts or competitive fighting sports will teach you self-defence quicker than the average Wing Chun class. You are not correct with saying that all wing chun is crap and useless.
can the average wing chun practicioner reliabily defend themselves?
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  #29  
Old 20.09.2019, 18:04
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Re: wing chun

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can the average wing chun practicioner reliabily defend themselves?
Ahh, so you are now twisting the statement to suit your agenda. We have changed from "Wing chun always sucks" to "can the average WC practitioner reliably defend themselves".

Firstly, I have no idea what the "average" WC practitioner is like, or what you deem as "reliably". It's a nonsense loaded question with a ton of variables.

I am not even remotely saying Wing Chun is an amazing system, but making a thread like this rubbishing the entire system is the kind of thing I expect a young kid to do on Bullshido forums.
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  #30  
Old 20.09.2019, 18:10
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Re: wing chun

im not twisting the statement, im simply trying to show you how many caveats you had to jump through to sort of kind of get to something that works, which is a coach that tries to simulate other MA methodologies.








the point here is given an X amount of time invested on any martial art (or competitive sport) other than WC will provide better results. you are really trying to play on the exception of some coach being the odd good one.



you used the statement "reasonably quickly" . what do you deem reasonably quickly? and tons? I can play that game too



and yeah bullshido has a point in exposing WC... even when it's kids.
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Last edited by Ouchboy; 20.09.2019 at 18:25.
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  #31  
Old 20.09.2019, 18:22
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Re: wing chun

Well, when I was at school, there was one reliable way to settle this argument...

So, name your place and time and I'll bring the chalk and towels.
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  #32  
Old 20.09.2019, 18:31
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Re: wing chun

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im not twisting the statement, im simply trying to show you how many caveats you had to jump through to sort of kind of get to something that works, which is a coach that tries to simulate other MA methodologies.
It's not a caveat, it's a a statement of fact. Wing Chun taught by a bad teacher will suck. Wing Chun taught by a good teacher will be decent and then it depends on the students as to how quickly and how far they take it. That certainly makes Wing Chun inconsistent, it has no benchmark good standard as a result, but then again it also has a lot of variations/interpretations and it isn't a competitive sport is it, so how can you expect the same level of consistency and pace? It doesn't automatically make the entire system useless like you are saying.

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the point here is given an X amount of time invested on any martial art (or competitive sport) other than WC will provide better results. you are really trying to play on the exception of some coach being the odd good one.
I already said I agree with you in that statement, competitive fighting arts will get results quicker, it is stone cold logic. But is that the same as Wing Chun being 'completely useless'? Answer: no it isn't.

Last edited by Chuff; 20.09.2019 at 18:47.
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  #33  
Old 20.09.2019, 18:31
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Re: wing chun

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Well, when I was at school, there was one reliable way to settle this argument...

So, name your place and time and I'll bring the chalk and towels.
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  #34  
Old 20.09.2019, 18:49
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Re: wing chun

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It's not a caveat, it's a a statement of fact. Wing Chun taught by a bad teacher will suck. Wing Chun taught by a good teacher will be decent and then it depends on the students as to how quickly and how far they take it. That certainly makes Wing Chun inconsistent, it has no consistent good standard as a result, but then again it also has a lot of variations/interpretations and it isn't a competitive sport is it, so how can you expect the same level of consistency and pace? It doesn't automatically make the entire system useless like you are saying.
I can play the same game of semantics, nowehre i said entire system. But yeah again, the majority , (to a proportion of 9/10, maybe) is all that. you are trying to defend yourself on the 1/10 ; when as per your statement, that is more the result of a teacher that happens to teach wc and not because of wc.


The fact that it isn't a competitive sport should tell you already a bunch of it's efficacy.


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I already said I agree with you in that statement, competitive fighting arts will get results quicker, it is stone cold logic. But is that the same as Wing Chun being 'completely useless'? Answer: no it isn't.
see above, quote my 'completely'. Just admit you drank the kool aid and people should look elsewhere for selfdefence. yeah if you want a mild sweat sure go for it.


if you want a specifically revised statement here it is: given it's inconsistency , bad approach to combat, and lack of competition WC sucks. try something else (not aikido)
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  #35  
Old 20.09.2019, 20:26
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Re: wing chun

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I can play the same game of semantics, nowehre i said entire system. But yeah again, the majority , (to a proportion of 9/10, maybe) is all that. you are trying to defend yourself on the 1/10 ; when as per your statement, that is more the result of a teacher that happens to teach wc and not because of wc.
It isn't about semantics, your meaning was clear from the moment you started the thread and in every subsequent post. If you need to rely on semantics then you literally have no argument worth talking about. The difference was that I was being logical and accurate whereas you were aiming for generalizations and melodrama with your frankly daft and immature first post that had zero useful information or rationale behind it.

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The fact that it isn't a competitive sport should tell you already a bunch of it's efficacy.
So any martial art or fighting system that isn't a competitive sport has no value?

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see above, quote my 'completely'. Just admit you drank the kool aid and people should look elsewhere for selfdefence. yeah if you want a mild sweat sure go for it.
What on earth are you talking about? Your wording made it clear that you think Wing Chun is terrible, useless even, why are you suddenly denying that? I agree with you that there are many better systems for learning self-defence quickly, I have repeated that multiple times. I just don't agree that it's a system of no worth, that is not correct.

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f you want a specifically revised statement here it is: given it's inconsistency , bad approach to combat, and lack of competition WC sucks. try something else (not aikido)
Thanks for manning up in the end and at least posting something semi-accurate.
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  #36  
Old 20.09.2019, 20:33
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Re: wing chun

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It's not a caveat, it's a a statement of fact. Wing Chun taught by a bad teacher will suck. Wing Chun taught by a good teacher will be decent and then it depends on the students as to how quickly and how far they take it.
Jesus... this has been settled since the 90s: the Japanese came up with the idea to let masters of different martial arts fight each other. The winners were at the beginning Karate fighters and over time did a mix of Thai Boxing and the Brazilian version of Ju Jutsu come consistently up as the most efficient. I dont recall a single Kung Fu master of any flavor to be a MMA or K1 or similar champ at any time. Even some dude from Switzerland named Andy was more successful...
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  #37  
Old 20.09.2019, 20:55
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Re: wing chun

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Jesus... this has been settled since the 90s: the Japanese came up with the idea to let masters of different martial arts fight each other. The winners were at the beginning Karate fighters and over time did a mix of Thai Boxing and the Brazilian version of Ju Jutsu come consistently up as the most efficient. I dont recall a single Kung Fu master of any flavor to be a MMA or K1 or similar champ at any time. Even some dude from Switzerland named Andy was more successful...
Kung Fu masters would get and were destroyed by MMA/MT fighters in a ring pretty much each and every time. Completely different ball games. Kung Fu often has zero strength training or conditioning, vs hulking MMA athletes who train multiple times per day and fight for the sheer joy of it. There is no competition, it's kind of like a rottweiler having a fight with a chihuahua. Sanda/San Shou was basically invented as a hybrid competitive art to compete against Muay Thai etc and was 'somewhat' successful in bouts vs MT fighters (it at least gave them a fighting chance).

This is a great video summarizing the match-ups of kung fu artists vs sports athletes:



To be fair, there have been a few MMA fighters who use WC in the ring though and this video is an example of when hulking sports athletes use practical WC techniques:


Last edited by Chuff; 20.09.2019 at 22:18.
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  #38  
Old 20.09.2019, 22:15
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Re: wing chun

Feng Shui is far more effective.

You try it on with me sunshine, I‘ll rearrange your lounge!

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  #39  
Old 20.09.2019, 22:24
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Re: wing chun

I'm a big fan of saganaki.

Best technique: chuck the prawns away and clout your assailant over the head with the skillet.

Job done.
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  #40  
Old 20.09.2019, 22:31
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Re: wing chun

Not to mention t’noble Lancastrian art of t’Ecky Thump

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6u0reg
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