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  #81  
Old 30.11.2020, 09:29
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

Was in Flims/Laax last weekend for a hike. The glacier was open for skiing. If I understood correctly, they have a daily limit of 1000 guests, and you have to reserve online before you go.

Sounds all good, until I saw the queue at the gondola. Sure, everyone in their masks, but there was hardly any distance between anyone. The local ski club was there in their uniforms, and they were all bunched close together - I would have thought they would be more organized and controlled than just a bunch of random people. If that's how queues are going to be, I won't ski.
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  #82  
Old 30.11.2020, 09:31
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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Season passes are amazing value if bought pre season, generally about 12-15 days of day passes.
I used up at least 15 days of my season pass already mountain biking and hiking. Any skiing days from now on will be a bonus!
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Old 30.11.2020, 10:16
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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Oh dear, oh dear what can I do! I will have lived in Switzerland 49 years to the day tomorrow!
the best time to leave switzerland was 49 years ago. the second best time is today
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  #84  
Old 30.11.2020, 13:11
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

Went yesterday to Engelberg/Titlis but only to hike since only a few pistes were ready. Off-piste is not an option yet since the rocks and cracks on the glaciers are spectacular.

The parking was half-full, no tourists buses, people even kept distance in the line to board the gondolas. Once up in the mountain, I noticed a lot of people skiing were part of the population at risk. If they don't care about needing a surgery after an accident during covid19 times or staying at home......why everyone else should care?

During our hike we were alone. After coming down, the après-ski bar at the bottom of the station was closed but other bars in city center were open. Had nice apèro outside since we already had outdoor clothing. Funny to see people in ski clothes and shoes getting into a packed bar because of the cold. It was only -2C outside and there were blankets.

In general there's a lot less people. Several apartment buildings in Engelberg completely dark, no tourists. Hope the station finds a way to survive :/
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  #85  
Old 30.11.2020, 19:01
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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Went yesterday to Engelberg/Titlis but only to hike since only a few pistes were ready. Off-piste is not an option yet since the rocks and cracks on the glaciers are spectacular.

The parking was half-full, no tourists buses, people even kept distance in the line to board the gondolas. Once up in the mountain, I noticed a lot of people skiing were part of the population at risk. If they don't care about needing a surgery after an accident during covid19 times or staying at home......why everyone else should care?

During our hike we were alone. After coming down, the après-ski bar at the bottom of the station was closed but other bars in city center were open. Had nice apèro outside since we already had outdoor clothing. Funny to see people in ski clothes and shoes getting into a packed bar because of the cold. It was only -2C outside and there were blankets.

In general there's a lot less people. Several apartment buildings in Engelberg completely dark, no tourists. Hope the station finds a way to survive :/
At the end of the day most of the guys operating the lifts are farmers/students from these villages supplementing their income so I am happy to get a season ski pass to enjoy the skiing but there is also added benefit for the locals.

They are offering money back on ski pass if pistes closed for more than two weeks for whatever period the ski pass is not usable.

If they give me the choice of getting my money back I will be happy to forfeit it as these guys need to be paid and the ski stations remain somewhat solvent so we can enjoy again in future years.
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  #86  
Old 30.11.2020, 23:39
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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If they don't care about needing a surgery after an accident during covid19 times or staying at home......why everyone else should care?
Why should they or anyone worry about that? Having surgery - even in the unlikely event that they need it - does not involve any particular covid risk and there is no issue with availability of surgeons as they are not involved with covid care.

Skiing in the open air us also covid risk free and the risk in lifts manageable as long as people all wear masks and distance in queues.
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Old 01.12.2020, 10:18
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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Was in Flims/Laax last weekend for a hike. The glacier was open for skiing. If I understood correctly, they have a daily limit of 1000 guests, and you have to reserve online before you go.

Sounds all good, until I saw the queue at the gondola.
I'm going this weekend for walking.
You are referring to the queue at the bottom station or up at Crap Sogn Gion, the middle station?
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  #88  
Old 01.12.2020, 10:44
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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I used up at least 15 days of my season pass already mountain biking and hiking. Any skiing days from now on will be a bonus!
I am new to Switzerland so I don't fully understand how the passes work. I've been to other ski stations (Andorra and Spain) and you usually buy a forfait which gives you access to the lifts and slope.
How does it work in Switzerland that you can use it for hiking and mountain biking? Do you have access to other areas apart from the ski stations?
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Old 01.12.2020, 10:53
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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I am new to Switzerland so I don't fully understand how the passes work. I've been to other ski stations (Andorra and Spain) and you usually buy a forfait which gives you access to the lifts and slope.
How does it work in Switzerland that you can use it for hiking and mountain biking? Do you have access to other areas apart from the ski stations?
A season (or year) ski pass basically gives you access to the lifts whenever they are running during its period of validity. For (mostly) whatever purpose.

In some resorts you can get walker passes which don't allow you to take/use skis. But a ski pass will normally allow you to use the lifts for most purposes (for bikes there may be a small additional charge, also depending on resort).
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  #90  
Old 01.12.2020, 11:14
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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I'm going this weekend for walking.
You are referring to the queue at the bottom station or up at Crap Sogn Gion, the middle station?
At the bottom in Laax.
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  #91  
Old 01.12.2020, 11:31
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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At the bottom in Laax.
I guess with the new snow this weekend will be the same.
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  #92  
Old 01.12.2020, 13:59
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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Why should they or anyone worry about that? Having surgery - even in the unlikely event that they need it - does not involve any particular covid risk and there is no issue with availability of surgeons as they are not involved with covid care.
Yes, if you are happy for the surgeon to operate without nurses and anesthetists, on an improvised stretcher on the basement of the hospital keeping the patient alive with a bicycle pump

What world do you live on?

Last edited by dandi; 01.12.2020 at 14:43.
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  #93  
Old 01.12.2020, 15:46
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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Yes, if you are happy for the surgeon to operate without nurses and anesthetists, on an improvised stretcher on the basement of the hospital keeping the patient alive with a bicycle pump

What world do you live on?
I think we were talking about skiing in Switzerland, not Afghanistan.
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Old 01.12.2020, 15:57
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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Why should they or anyone worry about that? Having surgery - even in the unlikely event that they need it - does not involve any particular covid risk and there is no issue with availability of surgeons as they are not involved with covid care.

Corona has a direct impact on emergency transportation, for one thing. Friends recently had a pretty big scare when she went into labour six weeks early. She went to the local hospital, but things really weren't going well and she needed to be transported to HUG in Geneva. It took a very long time for the medical team to be able to secure an ambulance, they were administering drugs to delay the labour. She barely made it in time to deliver, and if the baby had been born half an hour earlier things would have been a lot worse as she'd have been en route. It normal times it wouldn't have taken nearly as long to get an ambulance. And these days air ambulances are busy transferring covid patients across the country, the teams really don't have time to also rush off to the mountains to rescue injured skiers.


Late last summer I had surgery to repair a displaced fracture. During the operation I was chatting with the nurses to pass the time, and they were saying they can't perform as many surgeries per day as they used to because the process of cleaning/decontaminating the operating theatre between patients is even more strict than before. The consequence is that elective surgeries such as knee replacements are being postponed. It's not a life-or-death problem, but it still sucks.

Last edited by bossie; 01.12.2020 at 17:51.
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  #95  
Old 01.12.2020, 17:37
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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Skiing in the open air us also covid risk free and the risk in lifts manageable as long as people all wear masks and distance in queues.
I'm slightly suspicious that you are applying a confirmation bias here... you want to ski and look for reasons to justify it.

In my very direct experience many people do not apply distancing in queues, and in the gondolas it is akin to a petri dish.
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Old 01.12.2020, 17:51
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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I'm slightly suspicious that you are applying a confirmation bias here... you want to ski and look for reasons to justify it.

In my very direct experience many people do not apply distancing in queues, and in the gondolas it is akin to a petri dish.
Well one of my other main sports (an indoor one) I am choosing to not do at the moment as I judge the risks to be too high so I hope being somewhat objective.

Gondolas are no different to any other public transport - with a properly enforced mask requirement and given the average ride is 5 to 10 minutes really should not be a problem. I AM more concerned about queues given the Swiss inability to actually do so but I saw the preparations at one local resort yesterday and if they stick to that will also be OK.

Finally, I will only be piste skiing Monday to Friday (and avoiding the Christmas to New Year peak). The resorts around me are all very weekend focussed, I have never seen any queues worthy of the name at other times.
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Old 01.12.2020, 17:56
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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Yes, if you are happy for the surgeon to operate without nurses and anesthetists, on an improvised stretcher on the basement of the hospital keeping the patient alive with a bicycle pump

What world do you live on?
A world where I have two surgeons as friends. In the first lockdown they and their teams were practically unemployed and even now are doing far less than usual.

Surgeons are not engaged in covid care and there is no mad pressure on regular hospital beds. Intensive beds are another question but not really relevant to ski accidents.
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Old 01.12.2020, 18:33
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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Surgeons are not engaged in covid care and there is no mad pressure on regular hospital beds. Intensive beds are another question but not really relevant to ski accidents.
I was in intensive care when I came round & for 24 hours after my back operation following a skiing accident.
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  #99  
Old 01.12.2020, 23:28
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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A world where I have two surgeons as friends. In the first lockdown they and their teams were practically unemployed and even now are doing far less than usual.

Surgeons are not engaged in covid care and there is no mad pressure on regular hospital beds. Intensive beds are another question but not really relevant to ski accidents.
Dandi is Right. Surgeons can do very little without anaesthetists. Many trauma cases such as rib fractures, head and spine injuries end up needing ICU. Anaesthetists are the ones that are helping out the ICUs that are working at or over their limits. Anaesthetists and anaesthetic nurses... without them the surgeons can do very little. Which is exactly why they had little work during the last wave as well as less to do now - the elective operations needed to be postponed because all the anaesthetists were working in the ICU. In many smaller and mid-size hospital the anaesthetists also manage the ICU at night as well as the ‚Shock Room‘ for the bigger trauma cases. There is just one crises they can attend to at any one time and even without COVID, there was always a crises. You can imagine it now. COVID paitients are extremely high maintenance and time consuming ICU patients. Hospitals ARE running at their limit and yes, the surgeons have little work to do - that isn’t a contradiction, it’s the way it works.
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  #100  
Old 02.12.2020, 09:21
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Re: Ski Season 2020/2021 - predictions

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Gondolas are no different to any other public transport - with a properly enforced mask requirement and given the average ride is 5 to 10 minutes really should not be a problem. I AM more concerned about queues given the Swiss inability to actually do so but I saw the preparations at one local resort yesterday and if they stick to that will also be OK.
We decided to get above the Zurich fog at the weekend so went to the mountains. There was a long queue for the tickets where almost no one respected a 2m distance. In the gondola is was very packed indeed. Yes, masks were worn, but it was much more intimate that other public transport. Maybe where you are everyone suddenly behaves themselves but I doubt that.

I'm quite sure I remember reading how covid spread early in ski resorts such as Ischgl for such reasons.

I decided then and there that I wouldn't be doing such trips again for the foreseeable future, although I would like to be out snowboarding too.

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Finally, I will only be piste skiing Monday to Friday (and avoiding the Christmas to New Year peak). The resorts around me are all very weekend focussed, I have never seen any queues worthy of the name at other times.
You see, I think you are just bending the facts towards a conclusion that allows you to justify your behaviour. Don't worry, we all do it to some extent.
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