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Old 07.04.2009, 17:01
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Jogging : avoiding bad knees

Hi all,

It's time to start training for the marathon again and this time i want to try and do the half marathon in 1:35 (compared to 1:49 last year)

Last year in the early stages, i overdid the training a bit and suffered from sore knees when running more than 5k's at once. I think some of this was from running too hard down hills and just running too far too soon.

Does anyone have any tips on how to avoid these 'runners knees' ?

Thanks for any advice
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Old 07.04.2009, 17:27
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

Good shoes, the right shoes (under- / over-pronation).

Good training, the right training (make sure to strengthen the muscles that hold your knees together).

Good technique (active vs. passive running).

HTH.
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Old 07.04.2009, 17:30
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

good training program that does not advance to fast too quickly.

i use this to design my training:

http://www.myasics.nl/uk/home/personal.php

some good advice on 'runners knee' here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...45287&aq=f&oq=
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Old 07.04.2009, 17:35
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

Asics Kayano trainers have excellent support.

The normal's apart from that, lots of static quads to build the muscle up and so on.
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Old 07.04.2009, 17:46
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

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Asics Kayano trainers have excellent support.
qualify that: for a particular type of runner!

i love them. but i had proper advice/research of the way i walk and run before i committed to them. here you will some good pointers on where to start in terms of shoes/gear: http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/defaultgear.asp?sp=&v=5
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Old 07.04.2009, 18:18
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

yep, building up slowly has to be the top tip and I hate to dampen your keenness, but your speeding up goal is quite ambitous and maynot help.

How about going for an intial goal of consistently being able to run the distance pain free, for however many times you want to put a figure on it. That way your mindset is different and your lesslikely to push yourself into injury time.
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Old 07.04.2009, 19:46
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

Best advice I know for avoiding bad knees is to avoid treadmills like the plague.

If you absolutely must spend time on a treadmill for whatever reason, make sure you set it up to have at least some incline to ease the stress on the knees.
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Old 07.04.2009, 20:02
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

Wearing shoes with too much shock absorbency? It sounds counter intuitive, but racing flats can actually help with knee problems as they force you into a more correct gait.
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Old 07.04.2009, 20:15
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

Where could i pick up a pair of Kayano trainers ? Oschner Sport has them but as usual they are a complete rip-off !
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Old 07.04.2009, 20:21
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

Jelmoli has an Asics section and there's a couple of really helpful guys that work there. Dont just try the Kayanos though, the GT2140 and GT1140 shoes are also really good and offer great support.

Go try them out, get some advice, and then buy them online somewhere
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Old 07.04.2009, 20:30
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

I used to really struggle with my knees and when I started training for my first marathon in 2007 it was terrible. A friend suggested I try glucosamine sulphate and it really made a difference! Probably won’t work for everyone, but definitely worth I try!

On the Kayano front… Unfortunately I have no arch in my foot whatsoever so when I bought a pair (again a few years back) and I was getting HUGE blisters because the support is so pronounced. I ended up limping off into a running shop in the UK that put me on a treadmill and checked out my running action and gave me a pair of shoes with a much lower support in them. Might be worth getting your action looked at.

Good luck at the 1:35 target!
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Old 07.04.2009, 20:34
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

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Best advice I know for avoiding bad knees is to avoid treadmills like the plague.

If you absolutely must spend time on a treadmill for whatever reason, make sure you set it up to have at least some incline to ease the stress on the knees.
I spend time on the treadmill 3 times a week i had my knee operated on 2 years ago and have bad knees i wear MBT trainers and they really help the MBT trainers kind of like spring off the treadmill and my knees have no trouble running on it
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Old 07.04.2009, 20:39
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

Here is a link where to buy cheap MBT trainers http://astore.amazon.com/mbt-shoes-sale-20
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Old 07.04.2009, 20:52
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

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Thanks for all the advice everyone.

Where could i pick up a pair of Kayano trainers ? Oschner Sport has them but as usual they are a complete rip-off !

i got a pair recently from ebay in the UK. including the post/packing/CH VAT i still saved nearly 100CHF on the 275CHF price in Altheleticom!

http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/start-fitness/
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Old 08.04.2009, 09:31
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

I don't know but if you're knees can't stand the running, or it might wreck them, wouldn't it be wiser to switch to some other sport?
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Old 08.04.2009, 10:18
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

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I don't know but if you're knees can't stand the running, or it might wreck them, wouldn't it be wiser to switch to some other sport?
Actually that's not necessarily though. When I started running in August of last year, I simply ran too much (training and races) and didn't train enough. The result was a trip to the clinic and the installment of a real training schedule, incl. strength training (gym) and different kind of runs (intervals, sprints, long runs, ..), with the goal to build up muscles, ligaments and tendons around the knee and the result that I can now run > 2 hrs without any pain in the knee.
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Old 08.04.2009, 10:36
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

There are lots of helpful tips given here, but please, find out what is wrong with your knees before you continue with lots of running! If you continue to run - even just for a few minutes - on an injury that needs rest, then you could turn a small bit of wear into something more serious and long term. I would recommend that you see a physiotherapist - especially if you plan to run marathon distances - as they can also advise you on the best trainers.

I used to wear Asics Kayano trainers, but after a year or two of running, my needs changed and I started to get bad shin splints, and they were no longer sufficient. I had actually changed from a neutral striker to a serious overpronator and now need motion control shoes, such as Asics Foundation and Brooks Beast.

I am concerned for you as I am currently out of action with "jumpers knee" (similar to runners knee), probably due to needing new trainers and running when I shouldn't have been.
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Old 08.04.2009, 11:02
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

Indeed aside from any bio mechanical issues remember that different parts of the body get stronger at different rates.
Usually heart and lungs are first to adapt, closely followed by muscles but ligaments and tendons take ages to get stronger on account of their lack of blood supply and therefore nutrients.
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Old 08.04.2009, 23:11
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

Wow wow wow everyone here. This is typical of the problem when someone asks a basic question for advice and everyone gives you different advice. So lets start from basics. In 8 years as a qualified UK athleics running coach I saw this alot.

Someone telling you one spercific trainer is good needs to be taken with caution as sore knees be caused by many different things, so you need to go back to the beginings to find out the problem.

Firstly have you had your gait tested? this is normally done in a good running shop, they will video you on a treadmill in the shop and then they slow it down so you can see on which part of the under foot hits the floor first.
If it is the outer side of the foot you are an over pronater. If it is the underside of the foot you are an under pronater. if you land with a flat foot you are a neutral.
Then in a good shop they will show you which trainers will suit your style. This is very important when you want to up your training as every trainer is built differently.
The most widly used running trainer brand is asics and has been said to be an all round running trainer, but again they are all designed for different types of feet and runners.

Glucosamine is proven good and was originally given to dogs and animals for their joints.
When you do any sports the muscles tears very slightly everytime and normally repairs itself very quickly. Glucosamine helps to speed up the rate the muscle repairs itself , but it needs to be taken in high dosage, I was told over 500ml per day and you won't feel the effect/good untill after the first one/two weeks of taking.

Deffinatly building up your training session gradually is very important as you need to train your muscles to adapt gradually to the extra stress you give them.

So find a good running shop, have a gait test and try on many trainers in the shop ( don't be worried about making the shop assistent work for their money ) and if you are not sure, don't buy them and look in another shop.

If you have done all this and still have a problem, have the knee scanned and see what is going on inside the knee as you can waste alot of money trying to solve/guess a problem that you cannot see.
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Old 09.04.2009, 09:11
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Re: Jogging : avoiding bad knees

Thanks for the great advice everyone

@@Kate : I think you are right about building up my speed goal. I would be happy to do the same time as last year but without any after pain.

Does someone know where i could get my gait tested in Zurich or Luzern?
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