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  #41  
Old 09.03.2011, 18:30
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Re: vibram five fingers

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Same here.
Why I raised this query is I remember some big runners (big in size as well as mileage) saying their running shoes last them about 1000-2000 km. Now a running shoe typically has 10-20 mm soles. A vibram barely has 2 mm thick, so if it lasts 1k, even with the reduced impact due to changed running style, I am impressed. On soft trail I can understand, but not on tarmac.
Not all rubber is equal. Look at car tyres. A set of race slicks may last 30mins (60-80kms) - a set of Michelins may last 30,000km.
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  #42  
Old 09.03.2011, 19:08
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Re: vibram five fingers

Last Saturday I bought a pair of vibram 5 fingers (V5Fs) and a pair of nike free (NFs) 3.0s at the same time.
I've now tried both on the treadmill for 30 mins and I have to say that V5Fs comes out on top.
vibram's capture the barefoot mechanics and foot strike pattern much better than NFs. NFs didn't alter the foot strike pattern all that much because the heel is still raised somewhat. In fact I didn't "feel" much difference between NFs and a normal shoe except that they are a bit lighter.

My opinion: V5F >>>> NF
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  #43  
Old 09.03.2011, 19:22
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Re: vibram five fingers

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The foot strike is noticeable at first, but becomes more natural with time. You'll also notice that your calves will acclimatize to their new shock absorber function within a month or so and won't be as sore as the initial few weeks. Ankles and knees will benefit almost immediately as your feet will balance themselves and the rest of your body accordingly rather than when they were all wrapped up in foam in your Adidas/Asics/Nike slippers.
- I like that vibrams/barefoot style works the calf more. The shock absorber function is awesome, def not complaining bout that
- Also not complaining about the enhanced fore-foot strike pattern, it already feels more natural

In your other posts you mentioned that you dont advise vibrams/barefoot on treadmills, but I didn't have any problems with it apart from slight blistering which i expect to get accustomed to soon. I'm interested to hear why you don't advise it.
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  #44  
Old 09.03.2011, 21:26
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Re: vibram five fingers

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- I like that vibrams/barefoot style works the calf more. The shock absorber function is awesome, def not complaining bout that
- Also not complaining about the enhanced fore-foot strike pattern, it already feels more natural

In your other posts you mentioned that you dont advise vibrams/barefoot on treadmills, but I didn't have any problems with it apart from slight blistering which i expect to get accustomed to soon. I'm interested to hear why you don't advise it.
The treadmill doesn't possess any real world terrain qualities. There seem to be two types of treadmill; the fairly solid "rough sandpaper" type and the springier rubber mat style, neither simulate any surface that I'd normally expect to run on and the uniformity of the design as such doesn't give your leg muscles much of a chance to do anything other than vertical shock absorption. Pretty futile and pointless in my opinion. The whole point about barefooting it is to get out into the great wide open and reap the benefits of nature and actually feel the three dimensional world.

Sorry, almost strayed into bio-poetry; I had this awesome 7km Vibram run before lunch today. Sun out, temps around 10 degs C, the ground firm, but not too hard and it all just flowed, an awesome feeling that I never used to have with normal sneakers. My whole body was synchronized and I was in touch with the ground. I've wasted a lot of years farting around in Asics & Nike products piling on the miles, but for what? Just to boast how far I can run? Barefoot style running is a philosophy and lifestyle choice more than a way to tweak your personal best times. Here endeth the sermon, for it is so.
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  #45  
Old 09.03.2011, 21:52
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Re: vibram five fingers

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Sorry, almost strayed into bio-poetry; I had this awesome 7km Vibram run before lunch today. Sun out, temps around 10 degs C, the ground firm, but not too hard and it all just flowed, an awesome feeling that I never used to have with normal sneakers. My whole body was synchronized and I was in touch with the ground. I've wasted a lot of years farting around in Asics & Nike products piling on the miles, but for what? Just to boast how far I can run? Barefoot style running is a philosophy and lifestyle choice more than a way to tweak your personal best times. Here endeth the sermon, for it is so.

The only addition I could make to an otherwise perfect post is, don't let the rubber get in between you and the surface, then you will have ultimate running nirvana.

You might have heard people say running/hiking with naked feet on the grassy meadows gives you a sensual foot massage, try that, seriously. I think you are now ready to receive this pleasure it is not for all.
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  #46  
Old 09.03.2011, 21:56
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Re: vibram five fingers

Don't encourage him TT - he is taking some mad south american seeds at the moment - and I think they have had effect on his brain!!
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  #47  
Old 09.03.2011, 22:02
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Re: vibram five fingers

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Don't encourage him TT - he is taking some mad south american seeds at the moment - and I think they have had effect on his brain!!
Chia seeds haven't just killed me, um, yet dude....
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  #48  
Old 12.03.2011, 00:11
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Re: vibram five fingers

I just bought a pair of VFF KSOs yesterday at Aventura in Uster. The owner was really friendly and helpful, so I didn't feel too bad having to pay the Switzerland tax.

Went out for a walk today for a kilometer and trial run of about 4km to test them out. I haven't experienced any strain in my calf muscles, maybe because I have a habit of climbing stairs two or three at a time so they aren't in too bad a condition. I do however have some discomfort is what I could best approximate as the Flexor digitorum brevis muscle(s) in the bottom of my feet. I don't think I overdid it, but we'll see tomorrow

The experience was pretty positive. I found it enjoyable to run in the grass beside the (farm) roads which I rarely did in running shoes since they are not as comfortable or natural over uneven ground. Getting back on the asphalt after a kilometer in the grass is not all that fun Large gravel was somewhat uncomfortable at this point, but not painful. Overall I'd say I have to start looking for more suitable running spots, with maximum "offroad" potential.
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  #49  
Old 16.03.2011, 16:07
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Re: vibram five fingers

@ Assassin -

It's called proprioception. Something I like about VFF's as well.
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Old 16.03.2011, 16:53
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Re: vibram five fingers

Oh...you are talking about shoes

I did not know the brand and when I found the thread...welll..I thought it was about erotic toys (VIBRANT five fingers)...what a deranged mind
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  #51  
Old 16.03.2011, 18:35
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Re: vibram five fingers

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Oh...you are talking about shoes

I did not know the brand and when I found the thread...welll..I thought it was about erotic toys (VIBRANT five fingers)...what a deranged mind
that's the best post of the thread
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  #52  
Old 21.03.2011, 14:04
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Re: vibram five fingers

Word to the wise - be careful walking in the dark in the woods - dog shit is a right pain to clean off 'em
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  #53  
Old 23.03.2011, 14:33
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Re: vibram five fingers

Since I spent half an hour reading through all the Vibram threads a few nights ago I thought I'd chime in.

I've worn my KSOs in the US, Ethiopia, Switzerland since last summer and just feel so much better in terms of posture, joint pain, etc. with them on. It's especially noticeable walking around the city on pavement for a few hours and I've had difficulty going back to my normal running and hiking shoes, only necessary in the past few months because of winter weather. My other issue with the KSOs as mentioned by others is the amount of time it takes to get them on, though this is a tradeoff with the additional coverage/protection of the foot particularly hiking outside or on dusty/gravelly roads.

For easier and more presentable daily use I've just ordered a pair of Classics from REI. With member discount and dividends I'm paying 55 USD, plus shipping (not from the store directly) and whatever customs adds...still expecting that will be cheaper than the 169 CHF they seem to go for here.

Happy ambulating everyone!
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  #54  
Old 11.04.2011, 11:10
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Re: vibram five fingers

Just wanted to post a short follow-up review.

I've now had my KSOs for a month and used them for running, hiking, and walking. They just work well and feel great. I personally encountered only very mild soreness in muscles/tendons/ligaments that were all resolved by one nights sleep. I have an increasing urge to wear them all the time and haven't received too many funny looks so far
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  #55  
Old 11.04.2011, 17:36
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Re: vibram five fingers

How are you loving those stone trails when you hit the ball of your foot right onto the edge of a rock? How about descending at speed? I haven't figure that out yet other than leaning slightly backwards.
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  #56  
Old 19.04.2011, 11:37
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Re: vibram five fingers

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How are you loving those stone trails when you hit the ball of your foot right onto the edge of a rock? How about descending at speed? I haven't figure that out yet other than leaning slightly backwards.
I haven't managed to really nail the edge of a rock with the ball of my heel yet. I tend to land mid-foot when running on rocks/gravel, but I am sure it's only a matter of time. Descending at speed I haven't paid attention to, but I'll try to find a decent hill and see what happens... I have noticed that slowing down from a sprint takes longer on hard surfaces since you can't really slam your feet down like you can with running shoes, maybe the same sort of problem.

I have noticed the additional muscle tone in the lower legs and feet helps with balance as well. I can balance on my toes about as well now as I used to be able to balance with my whole foot.
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  #57  
Old 19.04.2011, 12:10
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Re: vibram five fingers

Gits!!

I'm resting for 6 weeks. I hope I'll be able to ease into barefoot straight from the restart.
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Old 25.04.2011, 22:47
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Re: vibram five fingers

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Word to the wise - be careful walking in the dark in the woods - dog shit is a right pain to clean off 'em
Mate I went out partying in them one night and woke up to see them covered in chewing gum

I tested min in the Rhine a few weekends ago, and was happy with the land-water-land transition. It was awesome not having to take the shoes off.
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  #59  
Old 06.05.2011, 18:40
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Re: vibram five fingers

Unable to resist the hype I am now a proud owner of a pair and already love them. In danger of doing too much too soon but am hopeful that a few things count in my favour - I've been running trails for a few years and get on well with fell running shoes, already forefoot strike rather than heel strike, been focused on a light fast turnover for a couple of years, and am not overly heavy.

So far have pottered about town in them, run at the track and on a mixed trail. I really like the more immediate feedback you get from them as to how you are running and they are unbelievably comfortable. I still don't think they'll replace my trail shoes which cope better with very stony routes but am way more impressed than I thought i'd be. So if you are still wondering about trying a pair then go for it I say.
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  #60  
Old 08.05.2011, 15:30
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Re: vibram five fingers

Hi all ... just offer some additional thoughts to the discussion as I've spent a lot of time in V5Fs.

I've purchased and tested no less than 10 pairs of V5Fs in the past 2 years in a variety of conditions and terrain/running surface selections. I've bought them in CH and also had them imported from the US, UK and Germany. I've worn out a few pairs and I've thrown out (donated) others after only a few runs. I love the concept of natural running and like the concept of V5F in general ... and I still find the shoes ok on a proper running track, but I've now given up trying "to make them work" in other conditions (trails, pavement, treadmills, mountains, for CrossFit, etc.). In all but optimal conditions, (for me at least) there is always a downside to FiveFingers that is overcome in other minimalist shoes.

Some observations I can offer as both a V5F users and a running coach:

1. Minimalist shoes make it easier to run in a more natural position & transition away from bad habits, but it is absolutely possible to heel strike and run with overall poor technique in FiveFingers or any other minimalist shoe. I've seen it in numerous technique video analysis sessions I've made for runners. What's most astonishing is when a runner thinks that they are not heel-striking in FiveFingers, but the video proves otherwise. While a good natural/minimalist shoe helps, it's not the answer in and of itself. Again, I've seen lots of runners throw on a pair of V5F and try to Pose Method run or forefoot run, etc. by feel and then remain injured (or worse, develop a new set of injuries).

2. Even the trail versions of FiveFingers don't offer enough protection to aggressively run off-road with any sense of security. Again, I've really wanted these shoes and their various models to work for all of my running needs, but the performance of this concept can only be extended into various terrains so far.

3. V5F offers no transition. I've seen runners get injured when they jump straight from large-heeled shoes into V5Fs, especially when they try to change technique without any guidance. For many, it's worth transitioning to less heel support, working on technique and conditioning and then going fully to a flat shoe.

4. I had a lot of unexpected knee pain during last year's MountainMan 83k race when I did all my training in V5Fs, but raced in some standard (and in comparison, somewhat heavy) Montrail trail running shoes. I either needed to have raced in ultra-light, no-heel trail flats or trained in a shoe with more structure. Even better would have been the same type of shoe for both training and racing. I donated the (relatively new) Montrails after the race and will never wear anything but a very light trail shoe again. My advice is just to think it through & experiment early if you plan to train solely/mostly in V5F and then race in anything other than V5F or very light, minimalist trail shoes.

Cheers
Jeff
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